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[Vercingetorix]

One thing I'd definitely like to see is more internal consumption of goods by dwarves both before and after the economy; this would increase the diversity of labors performed by dwarves as well as provide an outlet for work above and beyond trade goods (particularly in environments where trade is limited) as well as provide some additional challenges in the early game.  It would be more difficult to get a large trade-good industry up and running but at the same time not only provide another way to train skills before exporting goods but also provide future trade goods/items for use once the needs of the fortress are supplied.

In particular, having some sort of abstracted (initially?) "tools/equipment" inventory that reflects the need to repair items, replace worn-out tools (esp. ones used to make crafts) and the like.  It wouldn't be an input per-se but rather an occasional task that would have to be performed by a dwarf with the workshop's labor enabled.  It's far from fleshed out but I think something along these lines would be a challenging addition.

 This could be made as complex or as simple as desired but in particular it could provide another dimension to sieges; if, for example, you are dependent on imported tools or materials to make them, you would likely run out in time and gradually see different parts of the fortress wear out and break down as well as greatly slow production of needed supplies.  Eventually, you'd either have to act or literally succumb to the invasion because you won't be able to produce much of anything.

[Pilsu]

Tools don't break nearly as often as the suggestion forum would suggest. Certainly, it should be a factor but it's not a common occurrence. Stuff might need the occasional reforging or a new handle but it's no biggie. You might want to discard those copper picks though, I don't see them lasting very long, especially against harder types of rock.

The metal recycling has to be fixed if this ever implemented, up to 90% loss of metal upon melting is absolutely ridiculous. Seemingly only reason anyone would defend it is misguided, unthinking authoritarianism. Balance has nothing to do with it and even if it did, it's ridiculously video gamey.

Sharpening is a more likely maintenance method than constant replacements.

[Atanamis]

Tools don't break nearly as often as the suggestion forum would suggest. Certainly, it should be a factor but it's not a common occurrence. Stuff might need the occasional reforging or a new handle but it's no biggie. You might want to discard those copper picks though, I don't see them lasting very long, especially against harder types of rock.

Have you worked with tools in a professional capacity? I used to think things like the Craftsman "lifetime warranty" was cool because my home tools only break occasionally and its nice to be able to get them fixed when they do. Then I talked to friends who do professional repair work who buy far more expensive tools because they would go through "replacements" on a daily basis if they used consumer quality tools. Even with extremely high cost professional tools, they have to replace one or two a year due to wear or breakage. This is a game where years go by in hours, and where characters dig to the magma layer. Tools like this would absolutely wear out.

You might not like it for making the game not play the way you want, but don't criticize it for lacking "realism". Real tools break and wear out, particularly if made with inferior metals and craftsmanship. We should cherish masterwork tools made from steel, knowing they will last a lifetime when compared with a low quality iron tool. Real societies DO consume metal goods as they are worn out or broken. The current operation may be to your personal taste, but it is not realistic. Stop defining your gameplay preferences as equivalent to "realism".

[Caesar]

But, again, real society can melt the broken or bent tools back into the metal that was required to make them, enabling them to make new tools again.

Anyways, I am in favor of maintenance, albeit not having made up my mind in what way I personally would like to see it implemented.

[Atanamis]

But, again, real society can melt the broken or bent tools back into the metal that was required to make them, enabling them to make new tools again.

Anyways, I am in favor of maintenance, albeit not having made up my mind in what way I personally would like to see it implemented.

Sure we can, what do you think recycling does? And there is significant wastage when its done. How effectively tools could be recycled in the 15th century is something I'm not very knowledgeable about, though I suspect it was more work in most cases than just getting more metal.

[Caesar]

Recycling has and will always be a very important part of society, yes.

I do recall seeing some documentary about masons. They used copper (or iron, I'm not sure which it was) chisels, and occasionally those tools would bend. They found a solution other than just replacing and hauling off the chisel: They had a fire with them. The mason would simply heat the chisel in the fire, beat on it a few times with a hammer, and work on.

That's the way I picture part of the tool usage from back in those times.

[Pilsu]

Then I talked to friends who do professional repair work who buy far more expensive tools because they would go through "replacements" on a daily basis if they used consumer quality tools. Even with extremely high cost professional tools, they have to replace one or two a year due to wear or breakage.

What exactly does he repair? I wouldn't be surprised if you were talking about diamond saws.

[Andeerz]

Sure we can, what do you think recycling does? And there is significant wastage when its done. How effectively tools could be recycled in the 15th century is something I'm not very knowledgeable about, though I suspect it was more work in most cases than just getting more metal.

I am not an expert on medieval tools and the like, but I do know that good quality iron was something that was expensive and not the easiest thing to come by.  It is likely weapons were frequently recycled into other implements or other weapons (if I am uderstanding "Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight" correctly).  Re-sharpening of swords and other blades was an absolute necessity (the frequency of this necessity, I do not know, but it did happen enough during the working-life of a sword that a significant mass of the blade could be lost), and it was not uncommon for weapons to break or become damaged in combat.  Iron and steel had to be frequently oiled and polished to remove/prevent rust.  Maille was frequently repaired after combat with replacement links, and busted rivets in plate armor had to be replaced.

As for an anecdotal example, I have been trying to make historically accurate riveted maille for the past few months.  I've gone through my share of punching-bits (annealed masonry nails filed down to a fine point, reheated and quenched in water to re-harden).  The tips break on occasion, requiring me to re-anneal them, file them down, and re-harden them again.  As the quality of steel used in such tools back in medieval times was for the most part inferior to that found in the masonry nails I use (if not the same quality), they would have gone through such punching bits as frequently as I do (maybe a little less so given superior skill to mine).  It's still speculation on my part, though, as no one knows exactly how they did it back in the day.  But it is pretty much certain a method of punching slits in the rings like I do was part of the process.

[Vercingetorix]

Yes, definitely the concept of wastage needs to be worked in to forging, which would make the concept of tools/equipment wear much more challenging.  This is especially true with novice or unskilled workers; a peasant stuck on the forge is going to make a lot more mistakes and waste a lot more materials than a legendary smith.

I'd like to see something like this worked in to most or all professions (it already is to a degree with mining...better miners produce more stones/minerals), but imagine the potential strategic challenges involved if your farmers or craftsmen waste considerable amounts of resources to produce goods until they are more skilled.  Losing, say, three plump helmets out of a stack of five due to unskilled labor would be a brutal issue early-game unless you've got a skilled farmer along with your group.

Of course, this would also be an excellent use of the instructor/observer skills; unskilled dwarves could learn from skilled dwarves not unlike that seen with DF 2010's military system, basically setting up the apprentice/master system that was pretty common at this technology level.

Whether this can be implemented, I'm not certain, but I think it would produce some unique early-game challenges and give higher preference to some previously underutilized skills.