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Author Topic: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread  (Read 33554 times)

harborpirate

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2010, 12:53:02 am »


Well, from what I know, beers made from spring water have a better reputation then beers made from faucet water. Infact, a lot of european beers stay small mostly because they prefer to make their beers from specific springwater.
Similarly, Heineken, a faucet water beer is avoided by people who drink beer for the taste because it tastes like mildly bitter water, or more commonly described 'sewage'.

So I suposse it would be cool if taking water directly from a spring can give the beer made with it a boost, or even give the beer a local name.

I clarified that item a little bit and added a small tweak to your idea: players who bother to aquire aquifer water to make booze with should be rewarded by a quality bump.

Added your suggestion about notoriety.
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harborpirate

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2010, 01:00:05 am »


Good suggestions. Hot meal vs cold meal has gotten its own item, under the newly titled Storage and Preservation section titled Hot and Cold Meals. It also adopts the second part of your idea, with one tweak: cold meals are always made out of preserved foodstuffs (so they'd always keep). The idea there being that the player, when selecting "Make Cold Meal" is almost certainly trying to set something aside that their dwarves can eat much later, and it seems a bit cruel that Urist McCook will screw up their plans by including some random fresh ingredient.
Make cold meal is also an option for saving on wood so I think there should be a fancy and therefore spoilable meal [or at least a ruinable meal]

Very good point. I've adjusted the suggestion to split into three options, Hot, Cold, and Preserved. This allows for a no-fuel quality meal option, but still allows players the option to prevent Fool McCook from making spoil-able meals over and over again when the player is intending to store up lower quality meals long term.
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ZebioLizard2

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2010, 02:12:52 am »

I have a small idea myself due to all these thoughts.

What if there was different workshop kitchens. Like...

Small kitchen: 1x1, Can make only "Hot meals". To be used by dwarves in rooms. Mainly stews (think of it as a small pot over fire). Can be translated over to adventure mode as well. This one makes less sense in dwarf fort mode though. Maybe instead it could be be used by military personal, to make their own meals on patrol.

Better equipped: 2x2 or 3x3: Able to make cold meals, longer lasting meals and such. This is what would use preserved foods, able to make either hot meals, or longer lasting preserved/package meals for storage and eating on the go such as military, or for dwarves to carry on their person. (Such as the day that dwarves can eat outside of the storage area, or dining room)

Preserving room: (Insert better name here) able to preserve food, either by adding salt to food types, canning (if allowed) Freezing (requires ice blocks, or sub normal temperature rooms, either by adding alot of ice, or eventual adding of colder cave systems) and the like.

Communal kitchen: 5x5 or 5x2, the sort that one would expect to be a "cafeteria" sort, with a stock of dwarves making food for hungry dwarves to eat without needing crappy cooks. Several cooks would stock the area, ready to take orders and give out meals. Able to make large "potluck" sort of large stews in huge canisters that can last sometime, and is able to stay stocked for when all your cooks decide to go !!Urist McCook!! or some other issue.


I've salvaged these from a few topics, but didn't see em on here. A few might be bad idea's, but it's some idea's anyways.
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antymattar

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2010, 04:31:52 am »

I think I know how this would work in modding.

How to make a food that is not yet kooked but can be implemented in special dishes(Like bread)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That is about as far as I could get. I'll work on spices and other stuff next. You can play with the idea if you want but remember- I OWN YOU!!!  :P .

nuker w

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2010, 05:32:09 am »

PTW. I like most of the ideas listed, so i'm keeping an eye out for this.
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Waparius

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2010, 06:37:36 am »

...
What if there was different workshop kitchens. Like...
...

This kind of spills into things in the interface revamp thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34949.0) about making buildings, workshops and rooms work more like hospital zones.

Until then though, the "Small Kitchen" idea works really well if you make it a bit of furniture - call it a stove - that can be built out of rock or metal and added to a room. Put one into a room and dwarves can cook small meals there if they're hungry. The head chef could demand one in their dining room or quarters.


Another thing to think about - should tea and other hot drinks be implemented? Perhaps made from Valley Herbs or some other process->bag plants.

(But probably not Quarry Bush, if they're anything like a curry bush).
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ZebioLizard2

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2010, 02:49:27 pm »

I did mention it was salvaged from a few other posts along with some thoughts from me.

New drinks would be nice, but until we can get new ways of getting drinks. (seriously, barreling water would be nice just to store it!) But new drinks like hot drinks and such would be good. Could maybe implement hot (pure liquid) soups as drinks as well, satiates hunger a bit, but functions as a drink.
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Waparius

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2010, 06:36:33 pm »

New drinks would be nice, but until we can get new ways of getting drinks. (seriously, barreling water would be nice just to store it!)

Water barrels, and the ability to buy/sell same would be just plain necessary if you need water to brew. And it doesn't look like buying and selling water has been put into the OP list yet. So that should be an option, especially in desert areas, as well as making it so murky pools don't evaporate to nothing three weeks after you set up shop in a steaming hot swamp.
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AngleWyrm

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2010, 10:43:09 pm »

I think I know how this would work in modding.

How to make a food that is not yet kooked but can be implemented in special dishes(Like bread)
(snip)
That is about as far as I could get. I'll work on spices and other stuff next. You can play with the idea if you want but remember- I OWN YOU!!!  :P .

The idea in the Cooking Overhaul thread is better.
It's currently #98 out of 301 suggestions, with seven votes. Vote for it :)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 10:55:17 pm by AngleWyrm »
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harborpirate

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2010, 02:49:57 am »

I have a small idea myself due to all these thoughts.

What if there was different workshop kitchens. Like...

Small kitchen: 1x1, Can make only "Hot meals". To be used by dwarves in rooms. Mainly stews (think of it as a small pot over fire). Can be translated over to adventure mode as well. This one makes less sense in dwarf fort mode though. Maybe instead it could be be used by military personal, to make their own meals on patrol.

Better equipped: 2x2 or 3x3: Able to make cold meals, longer lasting meals and such. This is what would use preserved foods, able to make either hot meals, or longer lasting preserved/package meals for storage and eating on the go such as military, or for dwarves to carry on their person. (Such as the day that dwarves can eat outside of the storage area, or dining room)

Preserving room: (Insert better name here) able to preserve food, either by adding salt to food types, canning (if allowed) Freezing (requires ice blocks, or sub normal temperature rooms, either by adding alot of ice, or eventual adding of colder cave systems) and the like.

Communal kitchen: 5x5 or 5x2, the sort that one would expect to be a "cafeteria" sort, with a stock of dwarves making food for hungry dwarves to eat without needing crappy cooks. Several cooks would stock the area, ready to take orders and give out meals. Able to make large "potluck" sort of large stews in huge canisters that can last sometime, and is able to stay stocked for when all your cooks decide to go !!Urist McCook!! or some other issue.


I've salvaged these from a few topics, but didn't see em on here. A few might be bad idea's, but it's some idea's anyways.

I've added a suggestion about adventure mode allowing you to build a campfire to cook with. Military dwarves hauling around a brick oven on their back seems a bit unrealistic.

Dwarves can already carry rations if they have backpacks, so preserved meals would continue to fit right in.

I've added the Designate kitchen by zone suggestion, even though it overlaps a bit with other threads.

I'd like to flesh the preserving room idea out a little more. Maybe a zone could be designated where dwarves would try to stack ice blocks? In combination with a stockpile setting that allowed you to store raw foods, it could be useful. I'm thinking it actually could fit into the Icebox suggestion (see more on why in the next paragraph).

Does there need to be a separate workshop that will only have a few tasks (for preserving stuff)? Someone somewhere suggested smoking meat in the wood burning workshop, which could work but would be hard for new players to find. Since we're adding fuel requirements to the kitchen, it seems logical to keep all the tasks in one place, especially if the kitchen becomes a zone (where you could add a smoker).

Communal cooking and a meal counter where dwarves can pick up fresh food (cafeteria style) is already in the list.
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harborpirate

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2010, 02:50:31 am »

...
What if there was different workshop kitchens. Like...
...

This kind of spills into things in the interface revamp thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34949.0) about making buildings, workshops and rooms work more like hospital zones.

Until then though, the "Small Kitchen" idea works really well if you make it a bit of furniture - call it a stove - that can be built out of rock or metal and added to a room. Put one into a room and dwarves can cook small meals there if they're hungry. The head chef could demand one in their dining room or quarters.


Another thing to think about - should tea and other hot drinks be implemented? Perhaps made from Valley Herbs or some other process->bag plants.

(But probably not Quarry Bush, if they're anything like a curry bush).

I added Hot Drinks to the list.
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harborpirate

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2010, 02:54:25 am »

New drinks would be nice, but until we can get new ways of getting drinks. (seriously, barreling water would be nice just to store it!)

Water barrels, and the ability to buy/sell same would be just plain necessary if you need water to brew. And it doesn't look like buying and selling water has been put into the OP list yet. So that should be an option, especially in desert areas, as well as making it so murky pools don't evaporate to nothing three weeks after you set up shop in a steaming hot swamp.

Great point!
I've added both of these suggestions (storing water in barrels and being able to trade them).

Murky pool evaporation is outside the realm of this topic though. It could go in aboveground diversity, or I'm sure there is a thread (or several) out there for it since it is perhaps not quite a bug, but very buglike. (I agree it needs to get fixed)
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uttaku

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2010, 07:16:07 am »

a very small inclusion, for preservation we should also be able to use honey to preserve foodstuffs (when honey is added). I'll addmit that this will only be useful for very certain items mainly fruit and nuts but I swear I've heard of other things (meat etc) but I can't find proof so if anyone else can way in on this I'd be grateful. Also honey itself can last for thousands of years if sealed in a container, egyption honey has been found that is still edible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candied

And I'm not sure if it falls under this threads scope but vinegar has been used throughout history as both a cleaner and (fairly bad) disinfectant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vineger
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vadia

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2010, 07:10:13 am »

there should be "tattered" meals from lower leve;s trying something fancy. 
This seal curry is overspiced it is hardly edible.
eating it provides a negative thought and it is worth LESS than its composite parts.
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NSQuote

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Re: Cooking and Brewing Diversity: the Food and Drink Megathread
« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2010, 02:17:44 pm »

The idea of restaurants and taverns would be awesome once the economy is put in.

Even during the caravan arc such things could prove useful. Setting up a masterful restaraunt serving the finest meals and merchants favorite could help you bargain with merchant and increase friendly relations with other races. An elf might relax it's tree-cutting quota after having a delicous vegetarian meals, and a dwarf civ might ask to send more immigrants once they see the quality of life there. You could even add hotels for merchants and visiting nobility to sleep in.

A nice "town" with great food, a tavern, and an inn might even attract some adventurers. They could be a killer for hire, or even a nice arena fighter. And they never need to step foot into your underground base and see your kitten powered magma drowning chambers. This would really fit with the new adventure mode features.

And a good tavern would definitely increase Dwarf happiness. Offer them ten kinds of booze and watch happiness and productivity skyrocket (of course, brewing these fine drinks might take some work).

And I'm all for pretty much every other suggestion too, as long as cook moods are reserved for cooks and peasents.
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