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Author Topic: Some sort of Honey Bee  (Read 3553 times)

duckInferno

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Some sort of Honey Bee
« on: February 04, 2011, 10:36:18 pm »

I was just thinking to myself as I chugged along in my 5fps fort, just after a siege so dwarves are filing out 200~ tiles to pick up single socks (presumably they are revered objects) and the crippled fighters are permanently sleeping in hospital, that I could really use some honey. 

Make it so!

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Demonic Gophers

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Re: Some sort of Honey Bee
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2011, 10:57:07 pm »

Dev Log:
Quote
The first of the sponsored animals is underway -- it involves a side industry of beekeeping. Bee colonies found on the map can be collected and placed into clay/stone hives (the tube-style hive I found on Wikipedia, he he he -- I imagine woven hives will make it in when we have the materials for it, and I might throw in wooden hives now too). Artificial hives with colonies will yield honeycombs made from wax and pressing these will yield honey and wax, although it won't yield wax now if I don't actually have a use for wax that can go in now. We don't have flowers yet -- just a requirement that bees be kept adjacent to an open outside tile. Since collection destroys the colony with our non-modern hives, you'll have to collect new colonies of bees after your honeycombs are pressed, but new colonies will be available on the map over time in areas with bees.
Quote
Remaining thingies to sort out with bees are mead, stinging and, after some more reading, splitting colonies over time so you can grow your apiary up to a respectable size without grabbing wilderness colonies every time (though it'll be faster to grab those when they are available). A given fortress can only sustain so many hives -- without actual flowers for now it's just going to be a cap after which they aren't as productive. I'm not sure exactly what it'll look like, but if you are collecting half of your hives and then splitting the other half back into those hives over and over I wouldn't be surprised. Incidental problems with swarming and mites or whatever might be fun for later, but it'll probably be pretty mechanical this time around.

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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Some sort of Honey Bee
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2011, 11:08:11 pm »

... I think that, just possibly, this thread was entirely sarcastic.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
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sockless

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Re: Some sort of Honey Bee
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 12:33:18 am »

Well toady has to make a compromise between features and efficiency. If all he did was make the game run faster, I wouldn't be checking the site every 10 minutes to see if a new release has been made.
On saying that, a 64 bit binary and multi-threading should be #1 on Toady's list.
Also, you can set dead dwarves things to be forbidden by default, just like it is for greenskins.
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G-Flex

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Re: Some sort of Honey Bee
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2011, 12:41:16 am »

Well toady has to make a compromise between features and efficiency. If all he did was make the game run faster, I wouldn't be checking the site every 10 minutes to see if a new release has been made.
On saying that, a 64 bit binary and multi-threading should be #1 on Toady's list.
Also, you can set dead dwarves things to be forbidden by default, just like it is for greenskins.

What about the compromise between features and, you know, the features we already have being made to actually work properly? I won't blame Toady too much, though, because some sort of bug release (or set of releases) is planned for the very near future.

On the other hand, "multi-threading" being "#1 on his list" is rather silly. That's an extremely intensive overhaul, not just something he could get out of the way in a week.
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sockless

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Re: Some sort of Honey Bee
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2011, 01:05:55 am »

I understand that, but I think that it's an important thing. Some people are using only 1/4 (theoretically) of their CPU to play DF. If we split pathfinding onto 2 of the cores, flows onto one and everything else on another, we could probably get rid of the lag issue for the foreseeable future.

Anyway, it has to be done some day, may as well be now, so that all further features will be easier to implement into the game, as compared to adding heaps of new things, then trying to get them to work.
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Iv seen people who haven't had a redheaded person in their family for quite a while, and then out of nowhere two out of three of their children have red hair.
What color was the mailman's hair?

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Some sort of Honey Bee
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2011, 01:16:44 am »

Well, Toady ultimately has to be a bit of a businessman, here.

Look at the differences in donations when he did the animal sponsorship drive - he generated several times the normal amount of money he gets because he promised animals be put into the game.  Now that he has that money, he has to make good on his promise.

Look at all the countless suggestions that tend to get dropped in this forum based around adding one or two little "flavor" items like a campfire or an inn.  Players, typically the more "casual" DF players (if such a term even exists) who are more into playing with fortress construction like seeing little toys and gimmicks added to the game, and don't care about the long-term problems so much as getting small, short-term rewards.  They might not keep their interest in the game up for very long, after all.

These are the people who are making alot of the donations it takes to keep going.  The "hard-core" ASCII players aren't numerous enough for that.  If that means taking time out from optimizing pathfinding code to put in a three-toed sloth (which wouldn't even take very much time to put in, anyway) so that you get the donations to keep the whole project going, then so be it.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
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duckInferno

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Re: Some sort of Honey Bee
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2011, 01:28:25 am »

Should make an FPS sponsorship drive.  For every $500, we get another frame.
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Dbuhos

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Re: Some sort of Honey Bee
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2011, 02:23:02 am »

You know what ? How about upgrading your PC a bit.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Some sort of Honey Bee
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2011, 02:47:27 am »

I don't think upgrades ultimately matter - you just get your fortress a little further along before it hits the point where you consider it "unplayable".

Even in 40d, which has much less demand upon the system, people would rarely actually go up to 200 dwarves because of framerate limitations.  Now, it's just restricted down closer to 50 or maybe 100, in smaller embarks, with far more limited water applications.

Even with fairly drastic improvements, we may only get back to 40d levels of playability.

The temperature system needs massive overhauling, and so does the liquids system.  The "check every tile in the game every frame" thing is just a killer in these now-much-deeper forts.  Then there's pathfinding, although I'm not sure it would be as easy to make improvements in that field as it would be in the more obviously wasteful temperature and liquids code.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

Improved Farming
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therahedwig

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Re: Some sort of Honey Bee
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2011, 08:23:42 am »

...

Look I understand that you want improvements, but how is this thread going to help more then the other threads concerning the same things?
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duckInferno

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Re: Some sort of Honey Bee
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2011, 05:45:01 pm »

It's just a satirical poke in the ribs.  I doubted it'd lead to anything beyond a chuckle.
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Max White

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Re: Some sort of Honey Bee
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2011, 05:47:59 pm »

I was just thinking to myself as I chugged along in my 5fps fort, just after a siege so dwarves are filing out 200~ tiles to pick up single socks (presumably they are revered objects) and the crippled fighters are permanently sleeping in hospital, that I could really use some honey. 

Make it so!
Dear god the level of sarcasem!
You know, Toady dosn't make the game for us, he makes it for him. Making DF makes Toady happy, and the product of he's happyness is a game that we can play and enjoy.
Interesting fact: Making bees is a lot more interesting then fixing needy AI. Guess why we get bees?

therahedwig

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Re: Some sort of Honey Bee
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2011, 05:55:30 pm »

It's just a satirical poke in the ribs.  I doubted it'd lead to anything beyond a chuckle.
Ah, alright then.

Sorry, I've seen just one too many posts about how the game is supossedly heading for it doom because... <Insert df complaint here> Ofcourse, rampant fanboyism isn't a good awnser either, but in those cases I can always fool myself to believe that such a person is just rather young and overenthusiastic.
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SuicideJunkie

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Re: Some sort of Honey Bee
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2011, 08:35:11 pm »

You know what ? How about upgrading your PC a bit.
Ah, yes.  I remember those glory days of the 90's when CPU speeds were still actually increasing over time.

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