Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]

Author Topic: Military weapon selection - what to focus on?  (Read 11863 times)

Stil

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Military weapon selection - what to focus on?
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2012, 06:36:54 pm »

Since the last time I read this thread I've deliberately sprinkled a few more mace and hammers into my forces. Sorry, but combat reports about gobbos getting puréed inside their are so satisfying :)
Logged
"This in particular, simply because it's so siggable." Ironyowl

Alastar

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Military weapon selection - what to focus on?
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2012, 06:41:39 pm »

A skilled speardwarf and a skilled axedwarf leave goblins equally dead.

Nope. Assuming equal skill, I've found that the axedwarf kills far more quickly than the speardwarf. They both attack relatively useless parts very often but when the axedwarf does it, the part gets lopped off, causing severe bleeding in the goblin. When the speardwarf does it it gets stuck in and there's an awful lot of wrenching about which probably causes more pain but less damage

That's why I like picks. Contact area is just large enough to make limb hits telling, and small enough to get to armoured vitals taking into account the decent size and unusually high velocity multiplier. I definitely prefer them over swords as something between axes and spears.

However: I find spears' ability to defeat equal-quality armour makes up for a lot if I have to work with poor metals, bolts can do most of the work anyway, and spears work well against large beasties.
Logged

MetalHead

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Military weapon selection - what to focus on?
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2012, 02:47:31 am »

Personally I go for a mix of all dwarf-craftable weaponry.  From my experience swords make good frontline and first-encounter weapons for several threats as they are very versatile and are an equal threat to both armored and not invaders.  After initial contact I attempt to bring in a squad more suited for the enemy in question for backup:

Axes - Enemy is poorly armored (if at all) or is particularly vulnerable to dismemberment

Hammers/Maces - Depending on armor level of enemy, deploy proper blunt-force-trauma unit for softening and bone destruction (hammers for heavily armored opponents and maces for not-so-much)

Spears - If the enemy is heavily armored and/or has internal organs for stabbage, I send in my Slayer squad.  While admittedly they don't have as many kills as my other squads the effects of repeated poking cannot be denied.  Also good for large targets provided they still have organs, such as organic Titans/FB's

Marks - If the enemy lacks competing ranged power or can/should not be approached by melee I call my gunners.  While usually I prefer metal bolts (iron or copper in the hands of a master weaponsmith can make for some nasty bolts) my last fort I ran solely on bone.  Simple reasoning for this:
1.) I had 3 legendary bonecrafters churning out masterwork bolt stacks
2.) they were supplemented by 2 legendary bowyers (and my marksdwarves never wound up in melee range from their sniper perch over my gate)
3.) After modding the grazer values for the local elephants and rhinos I was swimming in bits, especially bones
Basically use marks for softening up enemy forces before melee engages them for easier slaughter, or for engaging particularly nasty bastards whose blood you want spilled elsewhere.

Main combat strategy (after establishment of independent fort operation and extensive military training (live or not)):

First Line consists of a squad of well-trained swordsdwarves as their flexibility gives them an edge against most enemies in melee in some form.  Before the enemy engages my 'front' I position other squads more tailored to the threat in question in 1-3 'foxholes' arranged as such:

000000_____0000000000
00----SSSSSSS---------00
00-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g--00
00g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-00
00-----------------------00
00-^^^--------^^^----00
----0000-------0000--------
-----------------------------
---000000-----00000-------
---0DDD0-----0DDD0--------

Where:
----- = open area
0000 = walls
S = Swordsdwarf - heavy 'front'
g = food for the slaughter (aka gobbos)
^ =  upward stair/ramp as desired
D = enemy-specific military squad with axcess via bridge to ramps/stairs (standing on or next to interior stairs/ramps allowing access to next level)

I call this one the Hammer-and-Anvil.  I came up with it after I noticed that DF, like WoW tanks and real life, noticed that it's rather difficult to block, dodge and/or parry attacks coming from behind, combined with a Thermopylae-based (if your history sucks more than a Lohan, think 300 the movie) defense:

An elite squad guards the choke-point at the main gate and holds off the enemy force in such a fashion that they get bottled up in the entry hallway.  While they try (and fail) to flank and overwhelm the main squad (who are based just inside the main gate for quick response time) I pick 1 - 3 squads from the rest of my forces based on enemy vulnerability:


Little to no armor, or extremely inferior armor (say, masterwork steel axes against normal-value copper or wood armor): Axedwarves, for maximum carnage and the unexplainable need to paint my entryway blood red

Mid - to Heavy or comparable armor (say iron axes vs iron armor): Hammerdwarves w/silver weapons for maximum squishyness

Little - Mid armor with large silver stocks: Macedwarves as I've noticed they have a nasty tendency to bash bones THROUGH adjacent joints shattering both; sometimes sent with hammer squads as they still have better penetration than axes

Internal Organs Present: Spears, as they can punch through armor (if present) and while not always getting the kill their work can greatly ease the strain on other squads; especially useful for large creature attacks like organic FB's/Titans, Dragons, etc

Above this, I often have marksdwarves camped out providing cover fire over the entryway for additional bloodshed.  The towers are constructed as such:

000000000
0......L.....0
0............0
0L....X...L0  Level T-1 or G (T being final tower z-level and G being at ground level, choose which at your leisure).  L's are levers linked to appropriate drawbridges on manned level, and X is an up/down stair
0............0  (Note: add some kind of barrier at ground level to keep the enemy at firing range)
0.....L.....0
000000000

0(Drawbridge)0
DFFFFFFFFFFFD
RF..............FR
AF......X......FA     Level T (squared up, of course)
WF.............FW   Add a roof above this to protect against flier incursion
BFFFFFFFFFFFB
0(Drawbridge)0
 
Drawbridges allow me to drop 'shields' for picking off melee groups, or selectively engaging them when bows/xbows are present or have their backs turned.  If enemy archers approach, have a bend in the hallway with an unlocked door to coax archers into coming to your swords, and only drop the bridge to catch them looking the wrong way or when they're retreating (dropping the foxhole bridges to release full squads of axedwarves or war badgers can also be beneficial at this time).

While I said that 1-3 squads with this configuration will work don't be afraid to go for overkill provided you don't put your army into unnecessary peril (like dust FB's) or leave your other entrance(s) unguarded if you have any.  Personally I aim for 1/3 of my fort to be militarized and very well-equipped/trained for maximum slaughter potential and flexibility so having my entrie military show up for an ambush curb-stomp is pretty much SOP
Logged

franti

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Military weapon selection - what to focus on?
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2012, 01:45:46 am »

I don't bother with marksdwarves, due to the problems with training, constantly getting more bolts, and dealing with quivers.

Maces are the better of the two blunt weapons against unarmored creatures, Hammers are better against armor. This would make Maces the better of the two against invaders, since a Copper Cap is hardly armor. Now, special mention needs to be given to Obsidian Short Swords; they have an edge like steel, but no penetration whatsoever, which makes them the best blunt weapon in the game, almost as good as a Whip imop.

Of the slashing weapons, Axes, Swords and Spears, Axes have far more chopping power, and also can be used as a tool for woodworkers. This makes them good against poorly armored, small creatures with easily identifiable limbs, ie, most invaders. Swords have some bit of the puncturing ability of Spears, but not nearly enough to be useful. Spears are, of the three, the most useful; A Bronze Axe will kill a Goblin slightly quicker than a Bronze Spear, but the Spear can kill things that lack good, concise limbs for targeting, are better at piercing armor, and are much better in the hands of a novice, due to lucky organ strikes.

Finally, Picks act much the same way Axes do; they can lop off limbs easily and effectively, and serve a utilitarian purpose as well.

My preferences, in order; Spear, Mace, Axe, Sword, Hammer, Pick, Crossbow
Logged
Adamantine, Steel, Pig Iron, Iron, Bronze, Bismuth Bronze, Platinum, Brass, Black Bronze, Billon, Rose Gold, Electrum, Bismuth, Aluminum, Gold, Copper, Tin, Sterling Silver, Silver, Nickel, Zinc, Lead, Nickel Silver, Trifle Pewter, Fine Pewter, Lay Pewter.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]