Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 70 71 [72]

Author Topic: LGBTQ+ Thread  (Read 92866 times)

Great Order

  • Bay Watcher
  • [SCREAMS_INTERNALLY]
    • View Profile
Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #1065 on: January 20, 2025, 09:37:29 pm »

Huh, you'd have thought a human shaped slug would believe in hermaphrodites at least.
Logged
Quote
I may have wasted all those years
They're not worth their time in tears
I may have spent too long in darkness
In the warmth of my fears

Great Order

  • Bay Watcher
  • [SCREAMS_INTERNALLY]
    • View Profile
Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #1066 on: January 31, 2025, 05:11:39 pm »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/31/children-puberty-blocker-ban-sex-change-hormones-streeting/

Kiera Bell, the face of the UK's "I detransitioned so I advocate for nobody else to be able to transition" movement, continues to haunt us.

I hope Wes ignores the calls, especially as the Cass report itself doesn't advocate for blanket hormone bans, but I'm not convinced. Labour indicated their willingness to soothe transphobic voices by throwing us trans people under the bus on the run up to the election, I'm not holding out hope. Of course, I'm an adult, I'm not affected by a 16-18 year old cross-sex hormone ban, but there's plenty of people out there who will be affected, and every bit of erosion makes it easier to erode more. We're seeing that now - A ban on puberty blockers for teens, now moving onto a ban for 16-18 year olds. I can easily see the next step being a ban for up to 25 year olds on the "Brain doesn't stop developing until 25" myth, followed by a general ban to protect women or something.

Honestly, at that point I'd hand whoever's making the decision a knife and ask them to kill me in protest, because either they're a psycho or they're a coward who wants me dead so long as they aren't the direct cause.
Logged
Quote
I may have wasted all those years
They're not worth their time in tears
I may have spent too long in darkness
In the warmth of my fears

Great Order

  • Bay Watcher
  • [SCREAMS_INTERNALLY]
    • View Profile
Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #1067 on: April 22, 2025, 11:46:06 pm »

So, the UK supreme court has made a ruling on the equalities law.

Men are men, women are women, trans women are men, and trans men are women, unless you want to exclude them from a women's space in which case they're men.

At least that's what I've seen from various individuals interpreting it, trans, ally, or neither.

Which is... I was willing to give the SC the benefit of the doubt on it being them trying to clarify a poorly worded law, but the fact that trans men are given specific, special treatment under the interpretation gives me a very strong impression this was an ideologically motivated ruling more about excluding trans people in general from women's spaces.

EDIT: Labour is swaying between transphobic and refusing to take a stand, depending on who you ask too. Starmer's just avoiding giving a proper answer and keeps referring back to the ruling, while the equalities minister is saying that trans people should use the toilet of their AGAB.

The EHRC are also using the opportunity to go all-out on banning trans women from women's spaces too, right now. Can't imagine where they fall on the spectrum with that behaviour.

Honestly? Finishing my degree and leaving the country is actually sounding increasingly appealing. I hate to say it, but given how trans rights have been going in the UK I'm expecting to find myself off hormones in general in ten years time unless another party with actual support for trans people gets in. Given that RefUK are looking likely to win, and if they don't it's either Tories o Labour again? Ha. Not fucking likely.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2025, 10:51:32 am by Great Order »
Logged
Quote
I may have wasted all those years
They're not worth their time in tears
I may have spent too long in darkness
In the warmth of my fears

Starver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #1068 on: April 23, 2025, 01:10:29 pm »

What made me SMH was someone high in politics (I didn't catch who, or I might even be tempted to officially ask them about this) say that, by having all trans-women have to use male facilities, it would make "everyone safer".

Clearly not the trans-woman.

I'm sympathetic to women who don't want "I identify as a woman, please ignore my appearance, physique and attitude" individuals 'self-identifying' when challenged why they're wandering into the women's changing rooms (and the issues of actual rapists who are dangers to the prison-population subset they find themselves in[1]). But, for anyone on the other end of the continuum, all the way up to being surgically female in all ways (and who may well pass without comment, and certainly live and work as a woman in all other respects), they are now those forced to gamble against officialdom finding out, if they'd rather not use the male facilities[2].

An all-or-nothing approach is clearly wrong, either way. The worst fears of cis-women may be valid in the cases of some cases of 'trans-women', but forcing AGAB-alignment is more bad news for genuine trans-women. Hard cases make hard laws, as they say. This isn't an issue that should ever involve me, but I'm probably feeling more dissappointed in Kier's stance on this issue[3] than even those things do more directly do so. (Is now the time to invoke the "my dad knew your dad" line and try to contact him..?) My reading of the SC decision is that the interpretation of the current laws has to be made in this particular direction (whether or not ably assisted by underlying transphobia), but perhaps this more means that the applicable text used needs refining to allow the proper measure of subtlety and balance.

Even if everyone obeys the 'new' rules (at least those not already with mischief on their mind), it's been shown that "gender bouncers" stationed outside women's restrooms in the US tend to stop and question a whole lot of 'butch-looking' AFABs in their quest to try to stop the few actually-trans individuals out there. (Who may well be deliberately far more femme, which then naturally should mean that very girly-girls ought to be challenged at least as much[4], which I'm sure won't help matters!)


And I can just imagine the kerfuffle when a trans-man, in diligantly obeying this new stricture (presuming nobody's specifically made the 'exception' for them, by clearly posting the site's own policies on their status), strides into the female facilities.


As a man, I know I'm not the best person to pontificate on this. My best credentials are that I've known a handful of trans-women (that I know of), in my time; only one of which I know had undertaken 'the full monty' surgery, but I know that only because I was one of those trusted to be aware of his>her taking time out for various stages of the process. Perhaps I'm coloured in my opinion by none of them (even the ones who 'don't really pass') being any danger to women, all would have been in far more danger from bigoted men (or, indeed, bigoted women). The couple of 'sporty' ones were also never going to be a competitive problem in women's sport (at best, from tail-end in the men's competitions to 'also-ran' in the women's); at least one gave up on sport entirely, in fact, but at least partly from prejudice from the men. As to the cis-female perspective, I can only report that I'm aware of no woman who felt particularly threatened (physically or sportingly) by these; no doubt there'd be those not in the same circles who have felt trepidation at the prospect of interactions, but I never got any such vibes from anyone already acquainted with those concerned (not that I'd be privy to all the gory details of feminine gossip, of course).

I have, however, known cis-men and cis-women who have been troubled and troublesome individuals in ways that cause far more disturbance to society and my own social groups. Even if you try to reapportion it to the relative numbers of cis/trans out there, I can't really see the social panic as justified, just yet again an example of prejudices punching-down on minorities for (non-mythical, sure, but still mostly outlying) percieved ills.



[1] There must already be plenty of experience with male-on-male and female-on-female (cis) rapists having to be segregated, supervised, etc, in their undoubted half of the prison estate. And plenty of reasons why those imprisoned for non-sexual offences might need monitoring for either vulnerability or as the source of trouble. Being trans just adds more factors to consider in both keeping them safe and keeping others safe from them, but would hardly be an unprecedented level of measures to have to take on particular cases.

[2]  Essentially self-outing themselves, and exposing them to possible dangers (violence, if not sexual violence) within.

[3] I can understand the pressures he's under on this, but don't agree with them. On other things, recently, I understand the needs and reluctantly agree with how he's dealt with them (while looking for alternatives).

[4] Drawing from my favourite author, there's the scene in Monstrous Regiment where the soldiers/'washerwomen' are inflitrating the fortress and immediately get 'caught' in their 'deception'. "Daphne", however... Yes, it's fiction, and effectively played for laughs, but it's still a good allegory for what can happen.
Logged

Great Order

  • Bay Watcher
  • [SCREAMS_INTERNALLY]
    • View Profile
Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #1069 on: April 23, 2025, 02:00:17 pm »

To add onto everything said there, mere discomfort isn't a good reason for *any* exclusion. There has to be a logical reason for it, otherwise the US would still be in the throes of racial segregation because it'd make white people uncomfortable having black people be on equal footing.

And wrt the trans man thing: Like I said, the ruling has said that trans men can be excluded from women's places.
Logged
Quote
I may have wasted all those years
They're not worth their time in tears
I may have spent too long in darkness
In the warmth of my fears

Frumple

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Prettiest Kyuuki
    • View Profile
Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #1070 on: April 23, 2025, 05:05:15 pm »

The worst fears of cis-women may be valid in the cases of some cases of 'trans-women', but forcing AGAB-alignment is more bad news for genuine trans-women.
Last I checked, sexual assault rates are about even between LGBT and non-LGBT demographics... while the population disparity is something like 10-1 for the non-T part of the spectrum and (slightly fewer than, last I looked it hovers closer to like .7 or .8% of the population) 100-1 for the T.

Folks have around literally a 10,000% higher chance of being assaulted by someone not trans, a mere 1,000% someone not LGBT at all. Cis-women have staggeringly larger problems on that front in the form of cis-men and other cis-women.

Strangely, for some reason, similar amounts of effort aren't applied to the problem that's not involving a minority demographic that doesn't have the numbers to protect itself. I'd wonder why, but when you regularly see transphobes gleefully hanging around and signal boosting rapists and molesters, you stop really needing to wonder. In a lot of ways, trans folk are just collateral damage for the ongoing assault on women in general. More a convenient target for people that don't want to say the quiet part out loud than anything :-\
Logged
Ask not!
What your country can hump for you.
Ask!
What you can hump for your country.

Great Order

  • Bay Watcher
  • [SCREAMS_INTERNALLY]
    • View Profile
Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #1071 on: April 26, 2025, 02:26:01 am »

So, EHRC has decided it's making new rulings (See: Government-backed advice) on trans rights.

The biggest bit boils down to:

Trans people should be excluded from toilets of their preferred gender. Unless you don't want them to be. You can't do both, except you can if you have a gender neutral toilet.

Also you cannot make a women's only space inclusive of trans women. If you do this you have to include cis men. Same applies the other way.

This has damn near everyone complaining about how ridiculous it is, and how it contradicts current *laws*. The only people I've seen supporting it are the outright transphobes, even the "Steady on with this sort of thing" crowd have been saying that the EHRC is acting in an absurd manner beyond its remit.
Logged
Quote
I may have wasted all those years
They're not worth their time in tears
I may have spent too long in darkness
In the warmth of my fears

Great Order

  • Bay Watcher
  • [SCREAMS_INTERNALLY]
    • View Profile
Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #1072 on: May 01, 2025, 01:59:54 pm »

And now Sex Matters, LGB Alliance, Transgender Trend and Genspect have written to Wes Streeting to stop the puberty blocker trials.

So, they're opposed to the gathering of evidence. Methinks they're worried it'll say something they don't like.

Also the logic in the letter boiled down to "Look, these people will suffer when they're older because of stuff like the recent EHRC guidance. So don't let it happen"

GEE IF ONLY THERE WEREN'T SOME ORGANISATIONS PUSHING THESE ANTI-TRANS IDEAS.

Also written into my local MP. Given that she voted against gay marriage I don't expect much.
Logged
Quote
I may have wasted all those years
They're not worth their time in tears
I may have spent too long in darkness
In the warmth of my fears
Pages: 1 ... 70 71 [72]