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Author Topic: Gem setting cancellation spam  (Read 2544 times)

ibanix

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Gem setting cancellation spam
« on: February 16, 2015, 05:19:43 am »

My Urist McGemSetter keeps spamming me with 'unable to find gem' or the like messages. After watching the workflow for a while, I realized that the issue was:

1) Urist McGemCutter makes a new cut gem
2) Other dwarf goes and takes the bin off the Cut Gem stockpile, goes to put the new cut gem into it
3) Urist McGemSetter can't find any gems, because they're ALL in the bin other dwarf has in his inventory

Any ideas on how to work around this issue?

I *could* make a stockpile for Cut Gems that has no bins, but this seems inefficient. Plus, all my gems are now in that bin, and I can't figure out how to get them back *out*. (Dumping just the gems from the bin didn't seem to work).

Thanks in advance.

Note: Still playing 0.34.11, because lazy.
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utunnels

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Re: Gem setting cancellation spam
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2015, 05:25:27 am »

If you don't sell the gems, you can ignore gem stockpiles. Just let your dorf fetch them gems from your workshop.

The newest version still has this problem, even though they no longer carry the bin around, but the gem setter still can't use the gems in the bin if some haulers are using it.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 05:27:38 am by utunnels »
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Sadrice

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Re: Gem setting cancellation spam
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2015, 08:02:52 am »

I prefer to use quantum stockpiles for gems.  I use them for most things, but they work particularly well for gems and bars.



This is my gems level (and also my weremammoth holding facility, that's the corpses I haven't cleaned up yet to the south).  The jewelers shop on the left does rough gems, the shop on the right does cut.  The QSPs have 7 feeder tiles (no particular reason for that, it just fit nicely), going to a 1x1 minecart track on a dumping stop, dumping north on a pile.  Bins disabled, because they're not necessary and also cause hauling loops when used in QSPs.  The cut gems shop is linked to the cut gems QSP and to the 2x3 furniture stockpile, which takes certain types of furniture from the main furniture QSP, so I don't decorate barrels and bags and stuff.

If you don't care for QSPs, you can do much the same thing with larger stockpiles, but I would recommend you not use bins, they don't work well for gems (or bars or blocks).
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Hurkyl

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Re: Gem setting cancellation spam
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2015, 08:09:00 am »

Bins do work well for blocks if you actually have to transport them: e.g. from your deep rock quarry to your aboveground construction site.
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ibanix

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Re: Gem setting cancellation spam
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2015, 09:22:42 am »

Thanks for the ideas. I think I may just let the gems sit in the workshops; I'm not sure how many you can store before clutter happens, but it must be a lot...

Also, I can never get my head around cart-based QSPs. Oh well :/
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Sadrice

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Re: Gem setting cancellation spam
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2015, 11:24:21 am »

Quantum Stockpiles are spectacularly useful and pretty simple to set up, it's just that the minecart interface is kinda weird and intimidating.  Thankfully you don't really need to understand minecarts to use them for stockpiling, since in most QSPs the cart is stationary and you don't even need track.

Set up two stockpiles and a cart stop as so:
Code: [Select]
  =
  S
 ===
 ===
Make sure you set the stop to dump on arrival, in this case north.  Don't bother to carve track first.  Customize the 2x3 lower stockpile.  The settings on this stockpile are where you get your selectivity.  For the upper stockpile, I just make sure it accepts what I want and set it to take from links only, rather than disallowing anything I don't want, just to save time (i.e. for a magnetite QSP, 2x3 takes nothing but magnetite, taking from anywhere, 1x1 is generic stone pile, taking from links only).

Now make a route.  Go to Hauling (h) create a route (r), name it if you like (n), position the cursor on your cart stop, and make a new stop (s).  Connect it to your 2x3 feeder pile by moving the cursor to the pile and pressing "s".  Press enter, make sure it will take what you want.  Don't worry about making it too specific, since it can't take anything that isn't in your feeder pile.  Press escape to go back to routes, use "v"to assign a cart to the route.

You now have a working quantum stockpile!  Dwarves will load stuff from the 2x3 feeder pile (there's no reason it has to be 2x3) into the cart.  Since the cart is sitting on a dumping track stop, the stuff will be immediately dumped onto the 1x1 tile (assuming you remembered to make the stop dump, and in the right direction.  It's very easy to forget).  They won't move it off the 1x1 tile, since it is in a valid stockpile tile, despite that tile also containing a few thousand other items.

This does not work with stuff in bins or barrels (though I think it works with bins and barrels themselves in furniture piles) because the 1x1 pile can have the allowed bin or barrel number set no higher than 1, and dwarves will take the excess containers and put them back in the feeder pile, even if you set up stockpile links such that they shouldn't.  I haven't found a workaround for this, and thus always put food, cloth, and leather in normal stockpiles.  I use QSPs for almost everything else.

I consider QSPs absolutely essential for loose stone and ore, and also logs.  I either restrict feeder stockpile size (for logs) or change the number of wheelbarrows in the feeder stockpile (for stone) to prevent it from taking up too much hauler labor until I can afford it.  A 5 wheelbarrow stone QSP can take up about 10 dwarves time when working at full speed.  5 fetching stone, and another 5 or so throwing it in the cart.  Several such stockpiles can use up all your idlers real quick.  It can also put all the loose stone and ore in your fortress 1 tile from your mason shops or smelters shockingly quickly.

Other good uses are bars, putting all the metal and coal next to your forges, a compact furniture stockpile, a compact block stockpile in the corner of the stairwell at z-1, for quick building of aboveground structures, and many many more.

For certain situations, like moving a lot of ore from the surface to the magma sea (iron, flux, and coal all tend to be shallow), or moving the finished metal goods back, it may be worthwhile to use a moving cart, guided, to operate a quantum stockpile.  This is significantly more complicated, and it can be a pain to get them connected right, but they can be well worth it.  Guided carts will happily pass each other on tracks, so you can make a large number of routes using the same track that goes to everywhere, or make a large number of separate ore moving routes hooked to the same feeder stockpile in the magnetite cluster if you are dissatisfied with the speed (you will be, if you're trying to move ore from the surface down 100ish z levels with just one cart).  I have had some injuries, including instantaneous pulping of upper bodies from use of carts (yes, guided, no, I don't know what happened), so try to keep other dwarves off the tracks if you have moving carts.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 11:30:40 am by Sadrice »
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River Rat

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Re: Gem setting cancellation spam
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2015, 03:57:48 pm »

I make one stockpile for raw gems and a 2nd stockpile for cut gems.
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utunnels

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Re: Gem setting cancellation spam
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2015, 04:20:51 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
tl;dr
I'm just too lazy so I create a big(not too big, 10x10 is enough) gem stockpile, without bins.
When the pile is full, I create a 1-tile garbage dump zone over it and dump all the collected gems.
Don't forget to disable the zone(i, select it then press a) when you are done. And don't forget to reclaim the gems.
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Bearskie

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Re: Gem setting cancellation spam
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2015, 05:14:02 pm »

Can anyone tell me what tileset Sadrice is using? Those diagonals are absolutely sexy.

Also OT recent DF versions fixes bin problems, but if you're sticking with .34, plenty of good tips up top ^
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 05:16:02 pm by Bearskie »
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Sadrice

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Re: Gem setting cancellation spam
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2015, 08:59:22 pm »

I've still had bin problems with items being unavailable due to bins claimed for hauling in 40.24.  It's just that now, rather than bringing the bin to the item, they bring the item to the bin, but the bin is still claimed for the hauling job for the duration (or maybe only after they've got the item and are bringing it back, I haven't watched them closely enough).  That's an improvement, as carrying a bar takes a lot less time than carrying a bin full of bars, but still a nuisance that causes sporadic job cancellations if all of your material is in one or two bins that are being actively filled.

QSPs are a bit of a nuisance to set up until you get the hang of it, but I use them obsessively, usually having at least 10 separate ones by the time the first dwarven caravan arrives (with many disabled by setting the input to take from links only or by restricting wheelbarrows, so they don't disable the fort if I haven't gotten a huge early migrant wave).  Point being, use them enough that you can breeze through the hauling and stockpile customization menus, and you can get them set up in about 30 seconds, minus the time it takes your mechanic to get around to building the stop.

I use dorten, a 9x9 tileset.  I use the second version, with the fixed 7s.  Qjet didn't want to display right for me last I checked (though that may be a matter of differing tastes).  I prefer small, almost ASCII tilesets, so I can be zoomed out appropriately (I can see an entire 2x2 embark if I want to squint a bit), and I absolutely love diagonal smoothed walls.  They make round rooms look really REALLY good.
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ibanix

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Re: Gem setting cancellation spam
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2015, 06:10:46 am »

Huge thanks for the QSP tips!
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Pink Photon

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Re: Gem setting cancellation spam
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2015, 03:58:44 pm »

I just put gem cutting jobs on repeat until I run out of rough gems, and then put gem encrusting jobs on repeat until I run out of cut gems.

Lately I've also started making a separate stockpile for cut glass/obsidian, so I can have one jeweler cutting those while another decorates with gems, or vice versa.
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ibanix

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Re: Gem setting cancellation spam
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2015, 04:28:12 am »


I consider QSPs absolutely essential for loose stone and ore, and also logs.  I either restrict feeder stockpile size (for logs) or change the number of wheelbarrows in the feeder stockpile (for stone) to prevent it from taking up too much hauler labor until I can afford it.  A 5 wheelbarrow stone QSP can take up about 10 dwarves time when working at full speed.  5 fetching stone, and another 5 or so throwing it in the cart.  Several such stockpiles can use up all your idlers real quick.  It can also put all the loose stone and ore in your fortress 1 tile from your mason shops or smelters shockingly quickly.


I've started using cart QSPs on my new fort, and they are quite effective; but as my fort has grown, I've found that less and less dwarves are hauling stone to my stone QSP feeder.

I have a 1x3 feeder, take from anywhere, into a links-only 1x1 pile. It works... mostly. But I've got dozens of dwarves sitting around with No Job and lots of loose stone hanging around.

Any ideas?
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Sadrice

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Re: Gem setting cancellation spam
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2015, 08:19:32 am »

A stockpile can only generate as many jobs as it has wheelbarrows (or open spaces, if no stockpiles).  So an empty 1x3 stockpile can only generate 3 haul stone jobs at a time.  Make larger stockpiles with more wheelbarrows.  dfhack allows you to set large numbers of wheelbarrows, but if you are using vanilla, just make more feeder stockpiles.
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