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Author Topic: Catapults and Winning  (Read 2433 times)

Ironhand

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Catapults and Winning
« on: April 18, 2009, 03:04:06 pm »

Hey, people! I am a long-time fanatic of the game, but I'm completely fresh to the forums.
I hope I am allowed to simply form a new post like this. Please inform me if I am wrong.

There are two things (well, more than that, but I'm just covering two) I'd love to see in later versions:

Catapults seem a little disappointing to me. I think it would be awesome if they released a pushing/stunning dust cloud similar to the ones created by cave-ins. Just a small one, like one tile collapsing. I always felt like they were surprisingly powerless against walls, too. They could at least destroy engravings or something...

The other thing I'd suggest (which is not at all connected to the first one) is another possible ending. Once a fortress becomes a Mountainhome, or maybe once they hit 10 million wealth, or whatever, the "Abandon the Fortress" option in the esc menu should change to, like, "resign", or something. Your fortress would become the permanent mountainhome of your given country, and you could go on to another game without losing the first one. I say this because I've hit that point in my current game, and it's really grown quite dull. My 50 champions kill everything that attacks me, so there's really no threat or challenge anymore. The only way my game will end is if I "Abandon my Fortress" or flood/starve the thing myself.

I know "winning" isn't really something that people look to do in DF, but I think there should be a partially conclusive 'ending' that isn't the player's defeat.
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Pilsu

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Re: Catapults and Winning
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2009, 03:17:35 pm »

Both are often suggested

The problem with siege weapons is the same as it is with ranged ones; the fire flies erratically, making them useless and ammo consuming. We'll see if Toady reworks ranged weapons into something more sensible later. It does have the downside of being ludicrously powerful once fixed though. Legendary loading skills are a bit unreasonable if a single bolt can level all troops in a single line. Skill balance is another matter entirely really

Catapults could use a rework really, the shots don't currently arc so you can't bombard an area with them

Adding liquid fire to the catapult ammo to make the cloud set things on fire would be a nice addition as well, however this would obviously mean that catapults actually use shaped ammo instead of raw boulders. Pottery would mix well with that
« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 03:19:10 pm by Pilsu »
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Warlord255

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Re: Catapults and Winning
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2009, 07:10:41 pm »

A "Win" scenario would be nice, but so would a more concise possibility for defeat - as is promised in the Next Version™ with improved sieges and/or unending monster attacks.
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sonerohi

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Re: Catapults and Winning
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2009, 06:26:39 pm »

It'd be rather cool to eventually see a mutli-ammo shot. A 3 boulder shot could be utilized very easily in many defence plans, unlike currently where if you want a catapult defense then you need to field half of your fortress to put out enough shot.
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Pilsu

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Re: Catapults and Winning
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2009, 06:32:55 pm »

Shotgun catapults would probably not create dust though, it'd be fairly overpowered otherwise

A nice less overpowered option for ballistae for those so inclined. Dwarves fleeing from enemies that get close to them might even be considered a feature at that point, ballista bolt killzones would be useful enough if they shot straight even if the dwarves fled
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Mount

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Re: Catapults and Winning
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2009, 06:43:55 pm »

Isn't there a solid "end" date set up in the game?  Something like 1050?  If your fortress lasts that long, I'd say that'd be a solid "WIN".

Neonivek

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Re: Catapults and Winning
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2009, 07:11:04 pm »

Isn't there a solid "end" date set up in the game?  Something like 1050?  If your fortress lasts that long, I'd say that'd be a solid "WIN".

Sorta. World Generation is set to stop in the year 1000 or 2000 or something. Unfortunately it is also set to stop if a certain % of megabeasts have been killed (which happens before the minimum of 200 years usually)
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sonerohi

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Re: Catapults and Winning
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2009, 07:53:28 pm »

Shotgun catapults would probably not create dust though, it'd be fairly overpowered otherwise

A nice less overpowered option for ballistae for those so inclined. Dwarves fleeing from enemies that get close to them might even be considered a feature at that point, ballista bolt killzones would be useful enough if they shot straight even if the dwarves fled

Well, I'm really proposing a mangonel. Catapults fired the larger stones that would shatter/shrapnelize/explode on impact. Mangonels were like the lovechild of the catapult and trebuchet, as far as I understand, and threw a large amount of smaller, fist sized rocks instead of torso+ sized rocks. That's what would make effective siege defense. Right now, power isn't as important. Why slay a singular goblin if you could break the arms or legs of five goblins? A wound that bad will likely cause them to lose consciousness, which is a death sentance on the battlefield.
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