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[Mirefrost00]

Ordinarily, this might go in either Fortress Mode or Bug Report, but I'm using a mod race, so that may be the cause.  I've searched the forum for "cave river freeze death", and "chasm freeze death" with no results. 

I embarked on a warm site, used 3Dwarf and Tweak to pinpoint the chasm, and was digging into the wall of it, about to breach, when my miner froze to death instantly.  This has happened before with this race, when breaching cave rivers, but this is the first time with a chasm, as I've had no trouble with them before.  Included is the creature that I civ as, for your review.  Any idea what's causing this?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[CREATURE:ARACHNID]
   [NAME:arachnid:arachnids:arachnid]
   [TILE:'&'][COLOR:7:0:0]
   [MODVALUE:70]
   [GENPOWER:3]
   [INTELLIGENT][liKES_FIGHTING]
   [SPEED:700][GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
   [BENIGN][STOUT]
   [CANOPENDOORS]
   [PREFSTRING:industrious nature]
   [BODY:ARACHNOBODY:8EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH:TAIL:TAIL_STINGER]
   [BODYGLOSS:CLAW_HAND][BODYGLOSS:CLAW_FOOT]
   [MAXAGE:300:350]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:TAIL_STINGER:sting:stings:1:6:PIERCE][SPECIALATTACK_INJECT_EXTRACT:50:100]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:slash:slashes:2:8:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
   [EXTRACT:arachnid venom:7:0:1]
   [EXTRACT_VALUE:100]
   [EXTRACT_PARALYZE]
   [EXTRACT_ANTIDOTE:arachnid antivenin:7:0:0:100]
   [WEBBER][THICKWEB][WEBIMMUNE][CHITIN]
   [CHILD:5][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
   [NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOSTUN][NOFEAR][PARALYZEIMMUNE]
   [NO_SLEEP]
   [DAMBLOCK:5]
   [FAT:1]
   [SIZE:15]
   [EQUIPS]
   [ALL_ACTIVE]
   [SPEECH:elf.txt]
   [STANDARD_FLESH]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10040]
   [LAYERING:50]
   [SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
   [PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:0:20:40]
   [PERSONALITY:VULNERABILITY:0:20:40]
   [PERSONALITY:IMAGINATION:0:55:100]
   [PERSONALITY:ARTISTIC_INTEREST:0:60:100]
   [PERSONALITY:INTELLECTUAL_CURIOSITY:20:75:100]
   [PERSONALITY:SELF_DISCIPLINE:20:45:100]
   [PERSONALITY:ACTIVITY_LEVEL:50:80:100]
   [PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:10:60:100]
   [PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:20:40:90]
   [PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:45:100]
   [PERSONALITY:MODESTY:10:40:90]
   [PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:35:90]
   [PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:20:45:100]
   [PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:20:55:100]

[snuflufagus]

I have never looked into it, but perhaps the underground features are acting as microclimates within the biome?  A potential fix may lie with adjusting your spiders, which can be done without a regen.  Your spiders have HOMEOTHERM:10040 which gives them a body temperature of about 72F and LAYERING:50, which means that they'll lose body heat to the environment about as fast as naked dwarves.  Clothes are supposed to help with this, but doesn't seem good flavorwise.  I haven't experimented too much with LAYERING, but it's supposed to increase tolerance to the cold.  Perhaps either lowering HOMEOTHERM to be more cold blooded or raising LAYERING (like to around 200 or 300, which are the values of the tundra dwellers) might solve your problem.

[3]

As a last resort, you can always just remove [STANDARD_FLESH]. I'm not sure what effects removing said tag has across the board, but it stopped one of my demons from freezing himself to death with his aura.

[Mirefrost00]

Excellent!  Thanks for the ideas, guys.  I'll try lowering the HOMEOTHERM, as I've heard that higher LAYERING values can lead to issues in warmer climates.  Unless it defaults to 100, which would explain why the Antman entry in the creature raws doesn't have a LAYERING tag, but does have HOMEOTHERM:10040 and STANDARD_FLESH. 

They do wear clothes, though, as you can see here:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[ENTITY:ARACHNID]
   [CIV_CONTROLLABLE]
   [INDIV_CONTROLLABLE]
   [CREATURE:ARACHNID]
   [trANSLATION:ELF]
   [DIGGER:ITEM_WEAPON_CLAW_MINING]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MALLET_WAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
      [AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_ARROWS]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
      [AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PIKE_MASSIVE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MACE_GIANT]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_GIANT]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_GIANT]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_ARACPLATE:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_ARACCHAIN:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_CLOAK:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_TUNIC:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_CAPE:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_VEST:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_DRESS:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_ROBE:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_ARACHELM:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_CAP:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_TURBAN:UNCOMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_MASK:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_SCARF_HEAD:COMMON]
   [GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_ARACGAUNTLETS:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_PLATE_SKIRT:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_SKIRT_LONG:COMMON]
   [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_ARACBOOTS:COMMON]
   [SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_SHIELD_GREAT]
   [SIEGEAMMO:ITEM_SIEGEAMMO_BALLISTA]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_GIANTAXEBLADE]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_ENORMOUSCORKSCREW]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_LARGESERRATEDDISC]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_MENACINGSPIKE]
   [TOY:ITEM_TOY_PUZZLEBOX]
   [TOY:ITEM_TOY_BOAT]
   [INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_FLUTE]
   [INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_HARP]
   [INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_PICCOLO]
   [INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_OCARINA]
   [CLOTHING]
   [CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
   [CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
   [CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:NAME_WAR]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:NAME_BATTLE]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:NAME_SIEGE]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:ROAD:NAME_ROAD]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:TUNNEL:NAME_TUNNEL]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:BRIDGE:NAME_BRIDGE]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:WALL:NAME_WALL]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:MAGIC]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:MYTHIC]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:ARTIFICE]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:SUBORDINATE]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:EVIL]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:UNTOWARD]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:NEGATIVE]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:UGLY]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:NEGATOR]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:CIV:NAME_ENTITY_KINGDOM]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:SITE:NAME_ENTITY_TOWN_FOUNDER]
   [STONE_PREF]
   [METAL_PREF]
   [WOOD_PREF]
   [GEM_PREF]
   [RIVER_PRODUCTS]
   [OCEAN_PRODUCTS]
   [INDOOR_FARMING]
   [OUTDOOR_FARMING]
   [USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_PACK]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_PULL]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_MOUNT]
   [USE_ANY_PET_RACE]
   [USE_GOOD_ANIMALS]
   [USE_GOOD_PLANTS]
   [USE_GOOD_WOOD]
   [USE_MISC_PROCESSED_WOOD_PRODUCTS]
   [EQUIPMENT_IMPROVEMENTS]
   [SPHERE_ALIGNMENT:LONGEVITY:384]
   [SPHERE_ALIGNMENT:WISDOM:512]
   [SPHERE_ALIGNMENT:MAGIC:512]
   [ART_FACET_MODIFIER:FANCIFUL:640]
   [ART_FACET_MODIFIER:EVIL:0]
   [ART_FACET_MODIFIER:GOOD:120]
   [DEFAULT_SITE_TYPE:CITY]
   [liKES_SITE:CITY]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:CITY]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:TREE_CITY]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE_DETAILED]
   [LEADER_TYPE:DRUID]
   [SITE_LEADER_TYPE:DRUID]
   [START_BIOME:ANY_DESERT]
   [START_BIOME:ANY_FOREST]
   [START_BIOME:MOUNTAIN]
   [START_BIOME:NOT_FREEZING]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_WETLAND:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_DESERT:3]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_FOREST:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_OCEAN:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_LAKE:3]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_GRASSLAND:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SAVANNA:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SHRUBLAND:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_RIVER:2]
   [DIPLOMAT]
   [DIPLOMAT_BODYGUARDS]
   [MERCHANT_BODYGUARDS]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:1]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:AUTUMN]
   [SIEGER]
   [MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:100]
   [START_GROUP_NUMBER:10]
   [MAX_POP_NUMBER:10000]
   [MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:120]
   [RELIGION:PANTHEON]
   [WANDERER]
   [SCOUT]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MINER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:CARPENTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BOWYER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCUTTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ENGRAVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MASON]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_CARETAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_TRAINER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:HUNTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TRAPPER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_DISSECTOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FURNACE_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WEAPONSMITH]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ARMORER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BLACKSMITH]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:METALCRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GEM_CUTTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GEM_SETTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:STONECRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:LEATHERWORKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_CARVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WEAVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:CLOTHIER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GLASSMAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISHERMAN]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_DISSECTOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_CLEANER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:CHEESE_MAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MILKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:COOK]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:THRESHER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MILLER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BUTCHER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TANNER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:DYER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:PLANTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:HERBALIST]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BREWER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SOAP_MAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:POTASH_MAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:LYE_MAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOOD_BURNER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MECHANIC]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_ENGINEER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:PUMP_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:CLERK]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ADMINISTRATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TRADER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ARCHITECT]
   [WORLD_CONSTRUCTION:WALL]
   [WORLD_CONSTRUCTION:BRIDGE]
   [WORLD_CONSTRUCTION:ROAD]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PUNISH_EXILE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:JUSTIFIED_IF_GOOD_REASON]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:MISGUIDED]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:MISGUIDED]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:MISGUIDED]
   [ETHIC:TREASON:PUNISH_EXILE]
   [ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:PUNISH_EXILE]
   [ETHIC:LYING:MISGUIDED]
   [ETHIC:VANDALISM:NOT_APPLICABLE]
   [ETHIC:TRESPASSING:PUNISH_REPRIMAND]
   [ETHIC:THEFT:PUNISH_REPRIMAND]
   [ETHIC:ASSAULT:PUNISH_EXILE]
   [ETHIC:SLAVERY:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:MISGUIDED]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:MISGUIDED]
   [WILL_ACCEPT_TRIBUTE]
   [ADVENTURE_TIER:5]
   [FRIENDLY_COLOR:7:0:0]
   [UNDEAD_CANDIDATE]

[3]

Freezing does strike me as a bit broken overall.
A civver can quite happily stand next to a creature with [FIXED_TEMP:9508], but as soon as he's outside, at night, in a -10-temp-odd biome, he freezes to death.

[Mirefrost00]

Snuflufagus, you were correct, I believe.  I took a look at the creature entry for wolves, which I had seen in Warm biomes before.  LAYERING:200.  So, I changed my Arachnids to the same, just breached the chasm (killed process to avoid save last time, SCUM), no miner popsicle. 

The microclimate bit is strange, but realistic, I suppose.  This chasm was not vented to the outside at all beforehand, as is the case with all cave rivers I've found so far, so the outside temperature must not have any bearing on the subterranean temperature in that condition.

[snuflufagus]

Hmm, I completely missed the clothing bit. (wishful thinking on my part?)  But I wonder if they wore clothes, then why did they still freeze?  Unless some part of their anatomy wasn't covered through which they could take the cold damage...

[Mirefrost00]

Hmm, I completely missed the clothing bit. (wishful thinking on my part?)  But I wonder if they wore clothes, then why did they still freeze?  Unless some part of their anatomy wasn't covered through which they could take the cold damage...

You missed nothing, friend, as I had not posted it yet.    That was my omission....  The clothes they wear do not provide full coverage, that is a good possible reason.  What still gets me, though, is that I breached the cave river, and my guy froze immediately, after I had increased LAYERING to 200.  Every arachnid who went after his clothes froze on the spot.  The giant olm that attacked the fifth one has no layering whatsoever, and the same HOMEOTHERM: 10040.  All of the subterranean creatures are that way, and they live there just fine.  What else are we missing?  Should I post this in Bug Reporting?

[jaked122]

well an arachnid wouldn't have what we know as [STANDARD_FLESH] anyway, it has chitin which is different as it is a fungus , I love knowing useless crap.

[commondragon]

Ordinarily, this might go in either Fortress Mode or Bug Report, but I'm using a mod race, so that may be the cause.  I've searched the forum for "cave river freeze death", and "chasm freeze death" with no results. 

I embarked on a warm site, used 3Dwarf and Tweak to pinpoint the chasm, and was digging into the wall of it, about to breach, when my miner froze to death instantly.  This has happened before with this race, when breaching cave rivers, but this is the first time with a chasm, as I've had no trouble with them before.  Included is the creature that I civ as, for your review.  Any idea what's causing this?

Hmm, did you alter any tiles on the way to the chasm?  Tweak has been known to freeze units to death after they dig out an altered tile.  While it has been fixed in later versions Im just asking because you might be using an older one.

[Shakma]

If the chasm isn't exposed to air, it has nothing to do with homeotherm or layering.  It's because you modified a tile with tweek or modding in a broken stone that they mined.