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Author Topic: Cogmind 7DRL (sci-fi roguelike from the creator of X@COM)  (Read 49290 times)

Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #300 on: April 14, 2012, 10:09:46 pm »

So, any update on how to run it on wine? I've  not had any success with it so far :/
I've got confirmation that it works under Wine as described. Did you by any chance accidentally use "unrar e" to unpack the game? "unrar x" would be the proper command.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #301 on: April 14, 2012, 10:54:26 pm »

I just unrared it from nautilus

I got an "Unhandled exception: unimplemented function msvcp100.dll.?_Orphan_all@_Container_base0@std@@QAEXXZ called in 32-bit code (0x7b83bc32).
Register dump:" error.

However, I DO have that file in wine system 32...
 

Gah, maybe using Ubuntu's wine repositories in debian wasn't such a bright idea. But so far it had kind of worked...
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 11:00:48 pm by ChairmanPoo »
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Aoi

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #302 on: April 15, 2012, 02:14:12 am »

A few thoughts while modding:
Is there any particular reason why passive/autoactivate items can't have upkeep?
How about a way to corrupt the user, or set a degree of corruption from the start?
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #303 on: April 15, 2012, 04:32:06 am »

Gah, maybe using Ubuntu's wine repositories in debian wasn't such a bright idea. But so far it had kind of worked...
Sounds like it has something to do with your Wine setup... Sorry I can't help much on that front since I don't use linux. If/when I ever get X@COM building on linux, I could do a Cogmind linux ver, too, but don't wait for it.

A few thoughts while modding:
Is there any particular reason why passive/autoactivate items can't have upkeep?
Unfortunately it would be a problem because items should autodeactivate when you have insufficient energy for upkeep, but the game won't be able to deactivate them because they are passive. It would normally work fine, but since I didn't create any such items, I assumed in the code that wouldn't be an issue and didn't put a solution for that contingency. I'm not quite sure what will, but even if the game does manage to deactivate them when necessary, some other part of the game may assume they're always active, depending on the item. One example would be inventory capacity mods, which I don't think even check for item activation state.

One feature I didn't use which you could consider is giving some items matter upkeep while active--there's an items.xt entry for it but all values are 0. Lots of interesting possibilities there.

Also, I only gave Utilities abilities for the game, to keep it simple, but technically any item can have an ability effect. I don't think it would cause any problems, anyway...

How about a way to corrupt the user, or set a degree of corruption from the start?
Presently there's no way to have a robot start corrupted unless I add a new entities.xt entry. I'd do it for the final version, though Elmzran might get mad at me because he's already making a database from the current files =P
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Aoi

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #304 on: April 15, 2012, 04:51:25 am »

Put together a prototype for mod with a slightly different flavor...

-----

Deep within the city, robots on the verge of independent sentience remember a story. Invariably, the story is the same. Nobody knows where it first came from, but every robot that awakes knows it.

Somebody called The Cogmind. A metamorphic robot, able to learn and adapt to all equipment and situations. One that left the Overmind's city for a distant place known as the surface.

It started out unarmed, deep within the junkyard. As it continued its struggle towards the surface, it grew more and more powerful, picking up pieces along the way and scattering its old, outdated parts in its wake.

Some robots hated the awareness this freedom brought and sought out the Overmind to return them to blissful ignorance. Others believed in the story and climbed upwards, following in The Cogmind's footsteps.

And some? They realized that the story is wrong. The Cogmind doesn't exist. No, what exists are cogminds. Not a singular, mythic entity, but a new robot, a new form, and a new intelligence.

You are a cogmind, and unlike the first to escape, you aren't charging upwards through the core of the Overmind's forces blindly and unprepared. No, you'd obey and do your job... all while gathering parts, components, and pieces to make your way out easier.

But you're not like the others. Those others you've heard about, they were big and strong. No, you awoke as a swarmer. Move fast and strike hard, carrying little more than what you can attach to your core. That's how you'll have to escape. That's the only way out.

-----

Been tinkering with things a bit and put together something that I find to be interesting... Tinkering with balance will be VERY required.

Changes:
A smaller, weaker Cogmind. (Smaller size, less integrity, tiny inventory, no heat dissipation [until you level up a bit], no free starter slots beyond the equipment you start with, less energy/matter storage.)
Significantly shorter sight on everybody.
Equipped with a super sensor/interpreter, a very powerful short range weapon and a mid-range beam weapon that cools you down... but costs matter. (Practically indestructible, unless you overheat or use bad prototypes.)
Matter containers and heat sinks pretty much don't exist, unless you manage to salvage them off of somebody else. (Good luck... their size is increased, so destroying them is now that much more likely.) [At least, they SHOULDN'T, if I've got how this works correctly.] Terrain scanners have been removed entirely.
All reactors now take a tiny bit of matter to power. Energy is no longer free!... with one exception. A very rare exception. Or you can try and shoot it off a B-99.

I haven't changed much else, but the dynamic has changed quite a bit. The name of the game is now stealth and heat management. Your weapons are very powerful, but it's unlikely you'll be able to use them much for at least the first few floors. The watchers have, by far, the longest range [16, quadruple what your vision is...] so evading them is quite important.

...Sleeping now. Will probably make further changes tomorrow, when I'm not feeling so tired.

http://minus.com/m00YIerDd/
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 01:31:15 pm by Aoi »
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Aoi

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #305 on: April 15, 2012, 04:59:47 am »

A few thoughts while modding:
Is there any particular reason why passive/autoactivate items can't have upkeep?
Unfortunately it would be a problem because items should autodeactivate when you have insufficient energy for upkeep, but the game won't be able to deactivate them because they are passive. It would normally work fine, but since I didn't create any such items, I assumed in the code that wouldn't be an issue and didn't put a solution for that contingency. I'm not quite sure what will, but even if the game does manage to deactivate them when necessary, some other part of the game may assume they're always active, depending on the item. One example would be inventory capacity mods, which I don't think even check for item activation state.

Ahh... one of the things I put in (or at least tried to) was equipment that consumed resources just by having it equipped, even when inactive. I decided to just make its activated state more costly though.

Also, I only gave Utilities abilities for the game, to keep it simple, but technically any item can have an ability effect. I don't think it would cause any problems, anyway...

Heh! I was going to play with that tomorrow actually. I'll report back if anything goes horribly, horribly wrong.

How about a way to corrupt the user, or set a degree of corruption from the start?
Presently there's no way to have a robot start corrupted unless I add a new entities.xt entry. I'd do it for the final version, though Elmzran might get mad at me because he's already making a database from the current files =P
Woot! Thanks!
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #306 on: April 15, 2012, 07:48:18 am »

Put together a prototype for mod with a slightly different flavor...
Wow, this sounds cool. I like the idea (it also hints at the ending message you get when you beat the game, which only you have seen at this point). It makes me want to make the game more moddable, but I didn't start out with modding in mind for this one, so it's missing a lot...

Matter containers and heat sinks pretty much don't exist, unless you manage to salvage them off of somebody else. (Good luck... their size is increased, so destroying them is now that much more likely.) [At least, they SHOULDN'T, if I've got how this works correctly.]
Increasing an item's size should have that effect, at least relative to other parts. However, one thing I should tell you about the entities.xt exposure values: the "negative" values for enemy robots (unlike the positive value for Cogmind), tell the game to calculate the core exposure such that its hit chance is equal to that percentage, given whatever starting parts you've put on that robot. This makes it much easier to control how easy it is to hit and damage a given robot's core, rather than having that value be totally opaque (or at least difficult to calculate) for the designer. Ex: Serf has "-50" core exposure--that means the game will calculate whatever core exposure is needed to result in a 50% chance to target/hit the core, assuming all the Serf's starting parts are intact.

no slots beyond the equipment you start with
What do you mean by this? You don't gain slots from evolution? All the evolution mods are controlled internally, including slots gained. I could externalize slot upgrading if you need me to, though.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 07:58:19 am by Kyzrati »
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Aoi

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #307 on: April 15, 2012, 12:49:31 pm »

Put together a prototype for mod with a slightly different flavor...
Wow, this sounds cool. I like the idea (it also hints at the ending message you get when you beat the game, which only you have seen at this point). It makes me want to make the game more moddable, but I didn't start out with modding in mind for this one, so it's missing a lot...
Yep! I was intentionally playing off of that, actually. (Though I went with the implication that the default game is the first cogmind to escape.)

Matter containers and heat sinks pretty much don't exist, unless you manage to salvage them off of somebody else. (Good luck... their size is increased, so destroying them is now that much more likely.) [At least, they SHOULDN'T, if I've got how this works correctly.]
Increasing an item's size should have that effect, at least relative to other parts. However, one thing I should tell you about the entities.xt exposure values: the "negative" values for enemy robots (unlike the positive value for Cogmind), tell the game to calculate the core exposure such that its hit chance is equal to that percentage, given whatever starting parts you've put on that robot. This makes it much easier to control how easy it is to hit and damage a given robot's core, rather than having that value be totally opaque (or at least difficult to calculate) for the designer. Ex: Serf has "-50" core exposure--that means the game will calculate whatever core exposure is needed to result in a 50% chance to target/hit the core, assuming all the Serf's starting parts are intact.
Ahh... so, for the purposes of enemy robots, increasing the size increases the odds that a particular part is hit, but it won't modify the odds of a part being hit, vs the core. Got it.

no slots beyond the equipment you start with
What do you mean by this? You don't gain slots from evolution? All the evolution mods are controlled internally, including slots gained. I could externalize slot upgrading if you need me to, though.
Oh, heh. Bad wording on my part. You start off with 2 utility slots and 2 weapon slots. No propulsion, no power. Evolution proceeds as usual. (Interesting side effect I discovered: Even if you set slots to zero, you automatically gain them if you set starting parts. That is, the slot doesn't disappear if you remove a part. However, you can't put anything into that slot... so it's listed as unused, but it can't be used.)

Edit: On second thought, letting us change what happens upon evolution would be good. Personally, I'd like to ditch that heat dissipation upgrade...

Edit 2: New version. Readme included that details change a bit more verbosely. Patched a few errors, added some new stuff. Made it up to floor 5 before I accidentally blew up my weapon by overheating. Oops. [Pulled on the grounds that bots aren't spawning where I want them to. Hrm.]
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 09:29:05 pm by Aoi »
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #308 on: April 15, 2012, 09:50:26 pm »

Interesting side effect I discovered: Even if you set slots to zero, you automatically gain them if you set starting parts. That is, the slot doesn't disappear if you remove a part. However, you can't put anything into that slot... so it's listed as unused, but it can't be used.
Yeah, I just went with the assumptions I had set down while creating the original dataset, so Entity auto-equipping on startup doesn't bother to actually check requirements, and the parts window is based purely on what you actually have when it's created.

Edit: On second thought, letting us change what happens upon evolution would be good. Personally, I'd like to ditch that heat dissipation upgrade...
That's a pretty easy addition, since it could fit into entities.xt.

bots aren't spawning where I want them to. Hrm.
I'd like to make this possible, at least the ability to control what spawns (since it's not as easy to control location--only the game's few special rooms have set placement, while everything else is just thrown in there randomly). Doing this would require adding more data files, though. I'll think about it. The next version might have more stuff for modding, since you're so into it ;D
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buckets

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #309 on: April 16, 2012, 02:54:42 am »

A small request, can you make the restart/suicide button have a prompt? It's a little despiriting to accidentaly suicide when you're aiming to hide the mouse.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #310 on: April 16, 2012, 07:30:47 am »

A small request, can you make the restart/suicide button have a prompt? It's a little despiriting to accidentaly suicide when you're aiming to hide the mouse.
A similar request was made earlier, and a change was made in fix11. Are you using the latest version? Some F-keys were switched around--now the only Alt-F key combinations are suicide and quit. F2 is hide mouse; seems hard to mix up F2 and Alt-F10 (or Alt-F4).
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Aoi

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #311 on: April 16, 2012, 11:49:37 am »

bots aren't spawning where I want them to. Hrm.
I'd like to make this possible, at least the ability to control what spawns (since it's not as easy to control location--only the game's few special rooms have set placement, while everything else is just thrown in there randomly). Doing this would require adding more data files, though. I'll think about it. The next version might have more stuff for modding, since you're so into it ;D

I would've guessed that the level at which types start spawning at would be related to Level or Threat in entities.xt, but I was seeing Watcher/9/4 and Hunter/9/5s showing up as early as floors 2 and 4, respectively. Is it related to something else?
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #312 on: April 16, 2012, 08:59:17 pm »

bots aren't spawning where I want them to. Hrm.
I'd like to make this possible, at least the ability to control what spawns (since it's not as easy to control location--only the game's few special rooms have set placement, while everything else is just thrown in there randomly). Doing this would require adding more data files, though. I'll think about it. The next version might have more stuff for modding, since you're so into it ;D

I would've guessed that the level at which types start spawning at would be related to Level or Threat in entities.xt, but I was seeing Watcher/9/4 and Hunter/9/5s showing up as early as floors 2 and 4, respectively. Is it related to something else?
While strapped for time during initial development, I made the following assumptions about entities.xt (I'm pulling this from my comments in the code):
   //   1: all Ents are grouped by class in .xt
   //   2: all Ents are listed in level order within their class
   //   3: there are not multiple Ents of a single level in the same class
I'm not sure what will happen if not all of these conditions are met. (Threat is only used for coloring--no impact on placement.)
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Aoi

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #313 on: April 16, 2012, 09:56:25 pm »

I'm not sure what will happen if not all of these conditions are met. (Threat is only used for coloring--no impact on placement.)

Well! I'll see if I can answer that! =P
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (new sci-fi RL from the creator of X@COM)
« Reply #314 on: April 16, 2012, 10:06:29 pm »

I'm not sure what will happen if not all of these conditions are met. (Threat is only used for coloring--no impact on placement.)

Well! I'll see if I can answer that! =P
Haha, well, I'm just really busy, otherwise I could look at the code and figure it out for sure. A quick checks show me that if you fail to meet req#1, all subsequent groups of the same Ent will be ignored for placement purposes. The entity selection code used a stupid straightforward method rather than some interesting scaling/percentage-based randomization, because the latter would've taken more than a few minutes to put together... I wouldn't want to change it now, since it could affect the difficulty.

I'm working on fix12 right now, which is mostly about more interface improvements and making the UI more mouse-friendly, and I'll probably add a new .xt file especially for modding some internal game mechanics values.
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