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Author Topic: Fallout: Equestria (v0.30c) Pinkie Pie is Watching  (Read 301750 times)

Thirtyeight

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1950 on: March 19, 2013, 09:09:13 pm »

I just want to say, I'm really looking forward to see adventure mode getting some love. Your work has been nothing short of amazing, I'm sure you will be able to work wonders there.

I finally figured out why ponies weren't collecting salvage. Turns out it had to do with wheelbarrows. I didn't know that if you enabled them, haulers wouldn't haul things without them.

I had an idea, what about explosive slave collars? you could buy them from slavers and jury rig simple bombs from them.
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gzoker

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1951 on: March 20, 2013, 02:31:53 am »

I can ponify you, but i wasn't planing to write any stories, just logs and pictures this time. My only goal is to survive as long as i can, but at least for ten years.
Edit: the second half my first year.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Behold, the face of my fortress:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And this is the state granite 1, in the second year:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lycaeon, can we have a birth control method like the sun-moon sugar thing from Valikdu's mod? There are a lot of situations where it could be useful, and in Horizons the stable ponies all have implants, so it can be justified.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 06:42:11 am by gzoker »
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Maklak

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1952 on: March 20, 2013, 10:20:04 am »

Aboveground Crops

 
IDNameValueGrows (Days)SeasonsEatCookBrew (Value)BiofuelProducts (Value)Hints
LEAF_HAND_BLACKblack hand leaf284
Winter
Spring
YesYesNoNoMILL: black hand dye (25)Cook
BERRY_CLOUDcloud berry256
Winter
Spring
YesYespegasan wine (5)YesMILL: cloud dye (25)Brew Embark
THISTLE_DEATHdeath thistle284
Winter
Spring
NoNoNoNo
MILL: deadly dye(25)
EXTRACT(Flask): liquid death (poison) (500)
Dye Useless

I'm writing a crop guide. What do you think about this kind of table? Is it useful? Are there any important fields missing? I want this to be useful for choosing which seeds to take on embark as well as what to grow and how to set up stockpiles that give to workshops. Should this be broken down in above and below ground tables, sorted by name? Should I add the colour of the dyes? Or maybe even try to colour the table in accordance with it? A table like this is a lot of BBcode, but I guess I'll do it by copy-paste, rather than a perl script.

Here are some random things, I've noticed:
* The Pony mods like to introduce lots of new plants. Consider decreasing their amount. Especially the dyes, though to their credit most of them can be used for other things.
* Maybe make the underground crops less efficient (longer growdur) than surface?
* Carrot juice seems twice as tasty as celery and radish juice... yeah, I guess that's intended. Plus carrot grows in only 2 seasons.
* Beetroot should have a juice too. I can buy some at the grocery store.
* A lot of underground dye crops grow in Winter Spring. I find that rather odd; why not Spring Summer?
* The soldiers like the most expensive flasks they can get. This means they will actually pick up flasks with golden salve or liquid death, preventing their sale or use. I haven't observed any adverse effects from drinking from such a flask, apart from it's increased weight. In any case I wouldn't make "Extract to vial" a part of any production chain, such as poisoning weapons with liquid death. 
* There are enough crops to implement multi-stage production chains for drugs.
* Having some dring inconvertible to biofuel is a merit. With multiple crops, it is safe to set "alcohol to biofuel" on repeat and not run out of drinks. Of course a better method is to use a specialised stockpile with "give to workshop" to keep the more expensive stuff for drinking.
* Shouldn't CANDY be [EDIBLE_RAW] and [EDIBLE_COOKED]?
* I think Synth Reed can't be made into soap. It lacks the PLANT_SOAP_TEMPLATE.
* Some of those plants (cloud berry, sky bulb) sound like they should be imports from the Enclave at best and not producible locally.
* There are some price anomalies, for example sky bulb has value 3 and alcohol value 4, while cloud berry has value 2 and alcohol value 5.
* Barrel Cactus has value 3. I think it should be 1, it's not like cacti are a preferred crop and the value of wasteland water and cactus jam reflects this.
* Synth Reed dominates Rope Reed. It is as good or better in everything.
* Dimple cups are useless for anything but dye and if I want dye, I can get it elsewhere. When I tell ponies to gather plants, this stuff just clogs up my plant stockpiles. I'd like this either having another use or removed from the game. Same with blade weed and Hide Root.
* Whip vine has value 1. This is a mistake.
* Sun berry is worthwhile if you can get is. So is Whip Vine, which makes the best flour.
* Wisdom Bush is great if you want to export big stacks of expensive food, but if you don't want to go above ground, quarry bush is also great. 
* Growdur is in hectoticks, so just divide it by 12 to get the duration in days. 1008 is 84 days, 672 is 56 days.

> I had an idea, what about explosive slave collars? you could buy them from slavers and jury rig simple bombs from them.
Nah, the collars were just to keep the more dangerous slaves in line. We have Sprite-bots as suicide bombers and I'd rather keep it that way.

> My only goal is to survive as long as i can, but at least for ten years.
Good, Lycaeon wanted some feedback on late game for some time.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 10:21:37 am by Maklak »
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Mura

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1953 on: March 20, 2013, 11:00:04 am »

Sorry my crazed plaguebot idea is taking so long- computer problems were keeping me from accomplishing much these last several days. If nothing else goes horribly wrong, I expect to be able to upload it today or tomorrow.
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Neowulf

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1954 on: March 20, 2013, 12:26:34 pm »

Crops
Agree with underground crops less efficient. Frankly the trade off should be: Above ground = faster growth/only a couple grow in winter, Underground = Very slow growth/year round growing. With the net effect that on average you get more harvests per year of above ground and have a season or two of freetime to do other stuff (like work on the needed extra security).

Also agree on enough variety to start with drugs. Infact using dyes, pressings, and extracts would be easy and effective.
Case in point, Chemotherapy was developed after a researcher killed off the cancer cells he was studying while trying to dye them for better visibility. And of course some of the most powerful painkillers are derived from flower extracts (opiates from the opium poppy).
No need to expand the plant list, just add mill/press/extract/ect... products to everything.

Pretty sure candy is edible by default because it's classified as a cheese.

Dimple cup/blade weed/hide root: Agreed on more uses needed. A quick alcohol and use them in drug making would do it nicely.

Synth/Rope reed: Yeah, either rope reed needs to be pressable to oil, or some other above ground crop needs oil and rope reed needs another use (like a flour or extract).
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Zangi

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1955 on: March 20, 2013, 12:37:28 pm »

@Crops: Hmm...  I think I only bothered to use 2 different crops, when I finally figured things out.  Synth-reed and one other, I totally forgot the name of it.  It seemed like a Plump Helmet replacement?

Its cause Synth-reed can be used as BOTH alcohol and cloth, while the other was cookable and brewable, but not edible if I remember correctly.  1 dedicated EP farmer can keep both these coming in year round in 2 nice 7x7 plots.  (Everyone can harvest)
I did not even know plant stuff can be made into soap...

I never got into dyes or fancying up my stuff.  My forts tended to be too inefficient to get that added on top of normal operations and projects or in the opposite case, not enough jobs for everypony when I leave the population uncapped.
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Maklak

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1956 on: March 20, 2013, 02:16:08 pm »

This is a guide to crops in FoE. For general info on farming see magmawiki.

Aboveground Crops

 
Name
ID
ValueGrowsSeasonsEatCookBrew (Value)BiofuelProducts (Value)Hints
barrel cactus fruit
BARREL_CACTUS
356Spring Summer AutumnYesYeswasteland water (1)NoEXTRACT(Barrel): barrel cactus jam (15)Cook Embark Press
blade weed
WEED_BLADE
284Winter Spring SummerNoNoNoNoMILL: emerald dye (20)Dye Useless
bloated tuber
TUBER_BLOATED
184Spring Summer AutumnYesYestuber beer (2)YesN/ABrew Biofuel
fisher berry
BERRIES_FISHER
256Spring SummerYesYesfisher berry wine (2)YesN/ABrew Biofuel
hide root
ROOT_HIDE
184Spring Summer AutumnNoNoNoNoMILL: redroot dye (10)Useless Dye
Longland grass
GRASS_LONGLAND
284Spring Summer AutumnNoNoLongland beer (2)Yes
MILL: Longland flour (20)
DOUGH: (20-40)
Mill
muck root
ROOT_MUCK
184Spring Summer AutumnYesYesswamp whiskey (1)YesN/ABiofuel
prickle berry
BERRIES_PRICKLE
156Spring SummerYesYesprickle berry wine (1)YesN/ABiofuel
rat weed
WEED_RAT
184Winter Spring SummerYesYessewer brew (1)YesN/ABiofuel
rope reed
REED_ROPE
284Spring Summer AutumnNoNoriver spirits (2)YesTHREAD: rope reed thread (2)Thread
silver barb
SLIVER_BARB
184Spring Summer AutumnNoNogutter cruor (1)YesMILL: sliver dye (20)Biofuel
sun berry
BERRY_SUN
356Spring SummerYesYessunshine (5)YesN/ABrew Embark
tumbleweed
TUMBLEWEED
156Summer AutumnNoNowasteland gin (3)YesMILL: ochre dye (20)Brew
valley herb
HERB_VALLEY
556N/A? Spring SummerNoYesNoNoEXTRACT(Flask): golden salve (100)Cook
whip vine
VINE_WHIP
184Spring Summer AutumnNoNowhip wine (3)Yes
MILL: whip vine flour (25)
DOUGH: (25-50)
Mill Brew
wild strawberry
BERRIES_STRAW_WILD
256Spring SummerYesYesstrawberry wine (2)YesN/ABrew Biofuel




Underground Crops

 
Name
ID
ValueGrowsSeasonsEatCookBrew (Value)BiofuelProducts (Value)Hints
carrot
ROOT_CARROT
284Spring SummerYesYescarrot juice (2)NoN/AJuice
cave wheat
GRASS_WHEAT_CAVE
284All yearNoNobeer (2)Yes
MILL: wheat flour (20)
DOUGH: (20-40)
Mill Brew
celery
CELERY
284Winter Spring SummerYesYescelery juice (1)NoN/ACook Juice
dimple cups
MUSHROOM_CUP_DIMPLE
256All YearNoNoNoNoMILL: dimple dye (20)Dye Useless
quarry bush
BUSH_QUARRY
256All yearNoNoNoNo
LEAF: leaf (5)
OIL: rock nut oil (5) rock nut press cake (1) rock nut soap (5)
Leaves Embark
radish
ROOT_RADISH
284Winter Spring SummerYesYesradish juice (1)NoMILL: radish dye (4)Cook Juice
sweet pod
POD_SWEET
256All yearYesYesrum (2)Yes
CANDY: sweet pod candy (20)
MILL: sugar (20)
EXTRACT(Barrel): syrup(20)
Brew Candy Mill Syrup Biofuel Embark
synth-reed
SYNTH_REED
284All yearNoNosynthcola (2)No
THREAD: synth-reed thread (2)
OIL: synth-oil (5)
Thread Embark



Conclusions:
* Pretty much the only benefit to aboveground farming is better drinks. Otherwise underground farming wins.
* Quarry Bush Leaves win when it comes to big stacks of expensive meals. Good for export!
* Synth Reed is the best plant for thread production. 
* Sweet Pods are all-around versatile and grow fast and year-round.
* Barrel Cactus and Quary Bush leaves can in an emergency be pressed into water in buckets, usable to give water to the wounded.
* It is worth it to buy stacks of 5 valley herbs from traders to use them for cooking. Since cooking doesn't produce seeds, it is not possible to grow them. 
* Carrot juice is twice as tasty as celery or radish juice, but carrot grows in only 2 seasons. All three won't be converted into biofuel.
* Having some drinks inconvertible to biofuel is a merit. With multiple crops, it is safe to set "alcohol to biofuel" on repeat and not run out of drinks. Of course a better method is to use a specialised stockpile with "give to workshop" to keep the more expensive beverages for drinking.
* The soldiers like the most expensive flasks they can get. This means they will actually pick up flasks with golden salve, preventing their sale or use. I haven't observed any adverse effects from drinking from such a flask, apart from it's increased weight.
* Synth Reed dominates Rope Reed. It is as good or better in everything.
* Some plants, like Dimple cups, are useless for anything but dye.
* Sun berry is worthwhile if you can get is. So is Whip Vine, which makes the best flour.

Recommended for embark:
synth-reed, quarry bush, sweet pod, sun berry, barrel cactus   

Recommended for cooking:
quarry bush, sweet pod

Recommended for brewing:
sweet pod, synth reed, cave wheat, sun berry, whip vine, tumbleweed

Recommended for flour:
whip vine, cave wheat

Recommended for candy, sugar and syrup: 
sweet pod

Recommended for biofuel:
sweet pod
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 04:27:55 pm by Maklak »
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Lycaeon

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1957 on: March 20, 2013, 02:48:54 pm »

Gzoker: Good stuff! :D I'm surprised you haven't seen any ghouls yet, but some embarks are just lucky I suppose. Your Stable's layout is especially nice.

> For six low quality scrap shields we bought various cut gems...
Cheesing the salvage material values I see...::)

> Lycaeon, can we have a birth control method like the sun-moon sugar thing from Valikdu's mod?
That's not a bad suggestion. I'll look into it. :)

Thirtyeight: Thanks! :) Adventure mode development is some ways off, but I do have a document of possible features I keep updated.

Explosive slave collars wouldn't be more than fluff given the current DF mechanics, and explosives are relatively plentiful already.

Maklak: While the crops guide is much appreciated...I plan to replace the current set of crops with ones from the Fallout and FoE canon, as a prerequisite for the chem manufacturing system. This won't happen for a couple of weeks, though, so I've linked your guide to the front page for the time being.

> The Pony mods like to introduce lots of new plants. Consider decreasing their amount.
The revamp will remove purely dye plants altogether, and also addresses many of your other pointers like pegasus-oriented crops.

> Maybe make the underground crops less efficient (longer growdur) than surface?
Underground crops are intended to be the main source of food/drink for most Stables (As Stable ponies raised their crops in underground farms), while surface plants will be more varied in use, yielding limited food/drink but also serving as ingredients for chem production.

>  There are enough crops to implement multi-stage production chains for drugs.
I haven't put much work into the production chains yet, but I'll keep yours and Neowulf's suggestions in mind.

> Shouldn't CANDY be [EDIBLE_RAW] and [EDIBLE_COOKED]
Yes, it should.

> I think Synth Reed can't be made into soap. It lacks the PLANT_SOAP_TEMPLATE.
Also noted.

> Growdur is in hectoticks, so just divide it by 12 to get the duration in days. 1008 is 84 days, 672 is 56 days.
Good to know! :)

Thank you for your feedback and guide Maklak. They're excellent as always! :D
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I want to calm the storm, but the war is in your eyes.
How can I shield you from the horror and the lies?
When all that once held meaning is shattered, ruined, bleeding
And the whispers in the darkness tell me we wont survive?

gzoker

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1958 on: March 20, 2013, 03:20:36 pm »

I thought cloud berry, midnight berry and twilight berry were removed in the last update. I can't find them in the raws either. (with the search function, not by eye) Otherwise, its a really good guide Maklak, I hope you will make another one after the drug manufacturing update :D Still, I like to have those blue jumpsuits so without dimple cups i would be lost.

As i see it a shield is a valuable commodity in the wasteland, as it can greatly increase your chances of survival, but gems are just colored pebbles. They only have value for the ones who understand their mysterious nature, and who can drew from the power lying within them. So it was a fair trade. If you really want to roll your eyes wait for my next report. :D
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Maklak

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1959 on: March 20, 2013, 03:32:53 pm »

> I thought cloud berry, midnight berry and twilight berry were removed in the last update. I can't find them in the raws either.
Huh? Well, this is embarrassing. I checked inside the 0.98c archive and those plants aren't there. I don't know which version I'm even playing, then. There should be a manifest.txt file with the current mod version inside the RAWs for just something like this. It will be ignored by the game if it doesn't have square brackets. I'll go ahead and cross-check my table with the current RAWs, then.

> Still, I like to have those blue jumpsuits so without dimple cups i would be lost.
To each their own. Besides, if you're dying plants, you know enough to ignore the "Useless" hints you disagree with anyway :P 

EDIT: Removed: black hand leaf, cloud berry, death thistle, midnight berry, sky bulb, twilight berry, weld, wisdom bush and beetroot which are not a part of 0.98c.

EDIT2: Starmetal could be a catalyst (with say 2% cahnce of being used up) in plasteel production.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 06:50:13 pm by Maklak »
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Since you seem to criticize most things harsher than concentrated acid, I'll take that as a compliment.
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gzoker

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1960 on: March 20, 2013, 06:25:02 pm »

Spring,52:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think this stable won't last ten years, fps is dropping too rapidly. The inefficient layout of the stable combined with a lot of ponies is going to kill it sooner than later. I will try and struggle as long as possible though.
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Putnam

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1961 on: March 20, 2013, 06:41:59 pm »

> Growdur is in hectoticks, so just divide it by 12 to get the duration in days. 1008 is 84 days, 672 is 56 days.
Good to know! :)

This isn't actually true; they're in deciticks. Since 10080 is a season, this means that 40320 is a year; 403200 is the number of ticks in a year. There are 1200 ticks in a day.

Maklak

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1962 on: March 20, 2013, 06:49:50 pm »

> This isn't actually true; they're in deciticks. Since 10080 is a season, this means that 40320 is a year; 403200 is the number of ticks in a year. There are 1200 ticks in a day.
1200 x 28 x 3 = 100800 ticks / season and 403200 ticks / year. Besides, if I were incorrect, the crops in this mod would grow up in 6 to 9 days, which they obviously don't, so the wiki is correct on GROWDUR. http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Time

The DF Modern mod has this:
* Corn. An above ground plant that can be eaten raw or used to make...
* Soda. A high-value alcohol that can be made from corn and sugar at the chemist lab.

EDIT.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 07:04:58 pm by Maklak »
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Since you seem to criticize most things harsher than concentrated acid, I'll take that as a compliment.
On mining Organics
Military guide for FoE mod.
Research: Crossbow with axe and shield.
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Putnam

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1963 on: March 20, 2013, 06:58:20 pm »

Months are 28 days, not 30.

confus

Treason

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Re: Fallout: Equestria (v0.98c beta) Life Goes On...
« Reply #1964 on: March 20, 2013, 08:30:48 pm »

Workshops and Ideas, some shamelessly stolen from what I have seen in other mods:

Wicker workshop
Embarked in a zone with no trees?  Grow underground or aboveground crops that can be processed into wicker at this workshop (or at the sawmill, to utilize what we have already) and then spun into simple furniture (Chairs, beds, bins [called trunks] and non-liquid holding pots [called baskets]).  This could be an extra use for tumbleweed or those redundant thread/dye plants.

Crematorium
If I remember right, this was even pointed out as being standard to a Stable (I know it is, with Vaults).  They didn't bury their dead, they burned them.  This could be a way to get extra ash, by burning all those useless body parts, vermin and whatnot that accumulate in refuse piles.

Parchment
We have the paper mill for such, but what if you do not want to make use of possibly hard to come by wood for that purpose?  Ancient paper was once made from processed animal hide.  Add a reaction to the paper mill or the leather worker's shop to turn tanned hides into parchment, which could then be processed into paper.

Star Metal
From hints given, it seems the author is planning on making the stuff more !!FUN!! than it already is.  Perhaps add in a possibility of any pony wearing it for extended lengths of time has their mental stats shifted towards being more "evil" until they turn into a "nightmare" version of themselves.


Cyber Lab
Extreme late game workshop that would allow a doctorpony to make use of rare materials to provide cybernetic implants to anypony they wish.  Maybe a cure for those ponys with that wonderful combat CM but abysmal stats, or that one prized militia member who has lost a leg.
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