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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 410953 times)

Urlance Woolsbane

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1050 on: October 08, 2018, 12:54:54 am »

To elaborate on what KittyTac said, Tarn doesn't want DF getting a reputation as a filth simulator. It's for this reason he hasn't added feces, and I assume the same applies to genitals.

"I assume"? Are you sure that is not reading too much into it? Anyway, body parts are limited to text names / descriptions, which are abstract. It's not like DF would ever end up displaying graphics of such parts, in 3D or otherwise.
Reading too much into it? Hardly. If Toady doesn't want poop catapults (and he's said as much), then he almost certainly doesn't want an adventurer force-feeding an enemy his own manhood, or seizing female characters by the you-know-what, or doing any other number of lurid things one could do with simulated nether-bits. The lack of graphics is irrelevant; the game describes combat in painstaking detail. And I can guarantee you that there'd be a constant stream of posts to the effect of "LOL! I killed a guy with his own dong! I bet no one's ever done that before!" See also: Crusader Kings 2 and its addled personal physicians.

And yes, you can do all sorts of horrible things to your enemies already, but graphic mutilation just doesn't have the same sort of Lowest Common Denominator appeal. Or to put it another way, DF players may have a reputation as bloodthirsty monsters that would make Armok blush, but they're not perverts.

EDIT: And even with violence Toady has his limits, as demonstrated by the mermaid bone-farming debacle.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 01:02:30 am by Urlance Woolsbane »
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1051 on: October 08, 2018, 01:25:04 am »

Yall can just add your favorite bodyparts and functions yourselves anyway. It wouldnt even be that difficult.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1052 on: October 08, 2018, 01:29:37 am »

Yall can just add your favorite bodyparts and functions yourselves anyway. It wouldnt even be that difficult.
And keep your fun to yourself if you do...
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1053 on: October 08, 2018, 01:59:37 am »

EDIT: And even with violence Toady has his limits, as demonstrated by the mermaid bone-farming debacle.
There's nothing preventing you from farming mermaids for fun.
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Thundercraft

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1054 on: October 08, 2018, 03:42:29 am »

EDIT: And even with violence Toady has his limits, as demonstrated by the mermaid bone-farming debacle.

I do not see the connection to this discussion. Because of the violence? Because mermaids are sapient? There are other things players can do in DF that are just as violent and cruel.

AFAIK, the main reason that mermaid bone-farming was fixed was because it was very clearly a money exploit. From what I remember, the profit potential was huge. That, and it probably did not match what was intended. I can see how it could seem silly if mermaid farms became a typical feature of forts near the ocean rather than a rare oddity.

There's nothing preventing you from farming mermaids for fun.

Sure. But, without a money incentive, it seems pointless.

I suppose there's nothing stopping someone from modding mermaids to once again have a real incentive. However, as I pointed out, the same can not be said for modding in genitalia. Yes, we can mod them in. But without a connection to gelding/sterility... It would be weird if a creature still ended up fathering children after castration.

Yall can just add your favorite bodyparts and functions yourselves anyway. It wouldnt even be that difficult.

"Difficult" is a relative term. I'm not talking about modding gender-specific parts onto just dwarves, I'm talking about adding them to all civilized races and most mammals. That's a lot of raws, esp. to keep them all maintained between updates.

As far as I can tell, Genesis Mod was the only mod to do genitalia. And it was dropped a long time ago. Not even TomiTapio's OldGenesis has them. If it was "easy", wouldn't there have been others?

But, you're right: Modding in gender-specific parts is not hard. (Just a little tedious.) Though, as I said, it seems impossible to connect modded parts to gelding and sterility. And it seems weird and somewhat pointless without that.

I'm against that, because it would literally add nothing and Toady's time is best spent on other things.

I can't help but smile at this. :) You see, the same argument was used against adding in sexual preferences. I even think I said the same myself, almost word for word. It seemed pointless to me and I also thought Toady's time was better spent on other things. But there was quite a debate about this topic and, sure enough, it got added anyway.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 03:52:59 am by Thundercraft »
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1055 on: October 08, 2018, 04:29:14 am »

Unlike with sexual orientations, Toady is actually aversed to adding genitals. Persistently trying to change Toady's personal preferences is like trying to stop a freight train by jumping in front of it.
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Real_bang

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1056 on: October 08, 2018, 05:43:46 am »

Dudes no need to argue about wieners. I feel very sorry that i asked this stupid question and it got a debate in fotf thread which supposed to be used for questions, not arguing. Lets just get over it and start asking questions again.

In your presentation you said that we can send our companions to do mischief and that its similar to raid menu in fort mode. Will we be able to specify mischief (like send some guys on a raid/raze/stealing artifact mission) and how will they find the adventurer when they finished with their mission? Like if i send someone to form links i think that he should come back and tell about links that have been formed/mischiefs that he had done. So how will he find me in a big world map?
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1057 on: October 08, 2018, 05:54:40 am »

Dudes no need to argue about wieners. I feel very sorry that i asked this stupid question and it got a debate in fotf thread which supposed to be used for questions, not arguing. Lets just get over it and start asking questions again.

In your presentation you said that we can send our companions to do mischief and that its similar to raid menu in fort mode. Will we be able to specify mischief (like send some guys on a raid/raze/stealing artifact mission) and how will they find the adventurer when they finished with their mission? Like if i send someone to form links i think that he should come back and tell about links that have been formed/mischiefs that he had done. So how will he find me in a big world map?
You can PM Toady to delete your question and all of the arguing about it.
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DG

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1058 on: October 08, 2018, 06:04:30 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hm, nice question, hadn't even occurred to me. I'm interested in the answer. Maybe you set up a rendezvous point beforehand or they just return to the place that you gave the order to wait for you?
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George_Chickens

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1059 on: October 08, 2018, 06:19:58 am »

Nor do I believe it is possible to induce sterility after the loss or injury of modded genitals.
I think it is now possible with the addition of geldables. The geldable organs presently are the guts, but I imagine the tags can be changed around and added to modded genitals.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 07:39:22 am by George_Chickens »
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ZM5

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1060 on: October 08, 2018, 07:38:44 am »

Minor correction - geldables are just a token added to the lower body on a caste-only basis for males of the vast majority of creatures, rather than an organ - if you were to add in a separate genital part that can be targetted and has that same token then severing them would actually induce sterility (if you notice, reanimated zombie torsos of male creatures have the male symbol surrounded by two X's - that indicates the creature either had its geldables removed, or the body part that had them was removed).

iceball3

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1061 on: October 08, 2018, 11:55:02 am »

As far as I can tell, Genesis Mod was the only mod to do genitalia. And it was dropped a long time ago. Not even TomiTapio's OldGenesis has them. If it was "easy", wouldn't there have been others?
Wouldn't it be trivial though? This sounds like something you could literally set in the BDP or similar, and have it apply to all species that use said plans. And as ZM5 says, geld-ability literally is already compatible with extra organs. Why is there all this compassion about a feature being unmoddable coming from someone who hasn't even dug through the raws enough to understand that?

ZM5

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1062 on: October 08, 2018, 12:37:18 pm »

To be fair, it would actually be rather tedious to update it to assign to ALL male creatures, since in order to assign genitals properly you'd need to either rearrange the castes or add in a new tissue layer plan for them - if you were to just add them into the male caste as-is they would lack layers and everything would pass through them.

ShinQuickMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1063 on: October 08, 2018, 06:12:28 pm »

From your perspective, would it fall under the purview of goblin civilization (or, more specifically, any civ with the babysnatcher tag) to snatch babies from uncivilized peoples, or should they only take interest in civilized sites as is currently? Would be quite FUN to discover that the local Dark Fortress has salt water crocodile men, harpies, and heck, a small population of giants in their ranks.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 07:09:23 pm by ShinQuickMan »
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scourge728

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1064 on: October 08, 2018, 06:39:44 pm »

As long as you could play as said giants...
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