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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 445720 times)

PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1560 on: February 07, 2019, 02:49:25 pm »

Yeah, I mean I don't expect enormous changes to the conversation system this time around (aside from what will be necessary to expose/turn in villains), but a few minor expansions besides that would certainly be nice. :)
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1561 on: February 07, 2019, 04:03:30 pm »

You're pretty right though, I just realized the first half of The Count of Monte Cristo can now be told to you by the DF worldgen.

Weirdly enough the thing that it breaks down on is learning from your prison mates about a fabulous treasure and being able to style yourself 'Count' afterwards.
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Mort Stroodle

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1562 on: February 07, 2019, 06:00:59 pm »

I'm wondering about the whole "dynamic world" ideas that have been brought up with respect to myths and magic. I got the impression that sphere regions will be dynamic, changing as the magical world is altered (rituals with gods, using artifacts, etc), but I'm wondering if these dynamic changes to biomes might pave the way for less magical, more natural biome alterations. Will natural events cause changes to biomes, or only magic? If we're able to pull the world closer to the fire plane or whatever, melting the poles and creating more fire sphere regions, then might we also see more mundane changes to the natural world? Like, volcanic eruptions creating larger landmasses over the oceans, climate change due to non-magical factors, cold fronts causing temporary changes to biome temperatures and what animals spawn there, disturbance and forest succession, that kind of thing? If none of that is planned for magic, will the dynamism of magical biomes create a framework that at least makes variability in the natural world easier to implement down the line if you want to?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 06:04:04 pm by Mort Stroodle »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1563 on: February 07, 2019, 11:12:37 pm »

I guess you won't know yet as it's kind of edge-case, but...
If a spy (either Adventurer or histfig) takes on the identity of a curse-giving god worshipper, would they get cursed by the god after knocking down its statues (Ha! Fooled you. Now I'm a weresloth...) or just cause religious unrest?

Can villains falsely accuse other people of temple desecration if there were no witnesses?
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Hapchazzard

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1564 on: February 08, 2019, 08:32:18 pm »

This is completely unrelated to anything in the near future, but a quick question about village/city layouts. Right now villages and cities are organized in neat squares, like a 1930s Soviet apartment block. Obviously, medieval cities (and villages especially) tended to have much more chaotic layouts, with buildings frequently having odd angles between them, streets curving and twisting, etc. I assume that the problems behind implementing such building generation are very similar to the problem with boats?(non-90 degree angles being difficult to simulate with the current graphical system)

In general, when the spatial mechanics behind boats are implemented, do you expect it to be as revolutionary as the addition of the Z-layer? I've just mentioned city layout, but I only now realize how different DF worlds would be in general if they weren't basically locked in a grid


((May add more questions later))
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Bumber

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1565 on: February 09, 2019, 01:01:51 am »

This is completely unrelated to anything in the near future, but a quick question about village/city layouts. Right now villages and cities are organized in neat squares, like a 1930s Soviet apartment block. Obviously, medieval cities (and villages especially) tended to have much more chaotic layouts, with buildings frequently having odd angles between them, streets curving and twisting, etc. I assume that the problems behind implementing such building generation are very similar to the problem with boats?(non-90 degree angles being difficult to simulate with the current graphical system)

In general, when the spatial mechanics behind boats are implemented, do you expect it to be as revolutionary as the addition of the Z-layer? I've just mentioned city layout, but I only now realize how different DF worlds would be in general if they weren't basically locked in a grid


((May add more questions later))
Last I head, boats are still going to be locked to the grid.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1566 on: February 09, 2019, 04:22:26 am »

This is completely unrelated to anything in the near future, but a quick question about village/city layouts. Right now villages and cities are organized in neat squares, like a 1930s Soviet apartment block. Obviously, medieval cities (and villages especially) tended to have much more chaotic layouts, with buildings frequently having odd angles between them, streets curving and twisting, etc. I assume that the problems behind implementing such building generation are very similar to the problem with boats?(non-90 degree angles being difficult to simulate with the current graphical system)

In general, when the spatial mechanics behind boats are implemented, do you expect it to be as revolutionary as the addition of the Z-layer? I've just mentioned city layout, but I only now realize how different DF worlds would be in general if they weren't basically locked in a grid


((May add more questions later))
Last I head, boats are still going to be locked to the grid.
Yes, there's nothing indicating the map rewrite (or the boat introduction) will do away with the underlying grid system on the lowest level as such. There's enough work to adjust everything else... Also, a higher resolution lowest level grid would result in an FPS penalty in the form of increased path finding costs as well as processing for vegetation, water flow, etc. That said, it might be possible to introduce some kind of internal local grid for workshop zones for equipment placement purposes (this is a pure speculation on my part, but would be handy for stockpiles as well: one (bag of) seed doesn't really require 4 square meters...).
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Hapchazzard

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1567 on: February 09, 2019, 09:54:55 am »

Hm, maybe I got the wrong impression, then. I was under the impression that the grid will still be there, but that it would be able to simulate structures that are tilted at odd angles. I mean, it would be weird to have boats instantly turn 90 degrees when you steer them, and I thought that that was the primary problem with implementing them.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 09:58:15 am by Hapchazzard »
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1568 on: February 09, 2019, 11:08:08 am »

I thought they just weren't too sure about it yet?

Quote from: PC Gamer interview
For us, the problems are just technical at first. How do you do the directions the boats are going in ASCII? You have a few choices. I know Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead, this zombie roguelike, they have these cars and stuff you can make and drive around, and they take the rectangle and shear it, so that it looks kind of weird, but the seats are still connected. For me, there's too many mechanics going on to kill the geometry that way. If two people were wrestling diagonally across those two car seats, when it turned they'd no longer be adjacent.

There's a million little problems like that that basically boil down to, you can point your boat in four directions. The geometry is intact. But that doesn't mean your boat needs to go four directions. You could have it going on a pretty smooth vector, up-up-over, whatever, and then the only problem becomes the pop when you get up to 45 [degrees]. Suddenly it turns. If we do pretty big boats, they might displace one tile of water. Maybe it depends on how much cargo is in there, who knows. Then when they pop, there might be fish or mer-people over here who get whacked. Do they just teleport, or get pushed? What if there's no room to push them because you're near a dock?

I feel like the problems all have solutions. There's a sliding scale of acceptability to your solution, and I think they're mostly okay. There will be some weird things where certain mer-people get scrunched. The real problem with this is if you're not controlling the boat, and you're the player, and you get scrunched. Like if a Dwarf Fortress is on the beach, you set up this whole cove where boats can come in and dock and unload stuff, all really cool stuff, right, but then you have dwarves messing around in the water and then a boat turns the wrong way and all your dwarves are catapulted out into space... There will be little problems, and we'll just roll with it.
Source

So the real worry is to make sure the player/their dwarves don't get atom-smashed by boats when they do the 'pop' going from one cardinal direction to the next.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1569 on: February 09, 2019, 07:56:06 pm »

I guess you won't know yet as it's kind of edge-case, but...
If a spy (either Adventurer or histfig) takes on the identity of a curse-giving god worshipper, would they get cursed by the god after knocking down its statues (Ha! Fooled you. Now I'm a weresloth...) or just cause religious unrest?

Can villains falsely accuse other people of temple desecration if there were no witnesses?


Relatedly, will anyone at all care about temple desecration in the coming update? Can priests or worshippers of a religion come to hate someone who desecrates their temple? Like spit on/refuse to talk to them or become aggressive? Right now nobody cares how many statues you knock over, and it is kinda weird.
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RobotFighter7

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1570 on: February 10, 2019, 02:28:09 am »

Will we see mercenary companies specialize in other more niche/exotic roles when magic comes around things like band of spellcasters who prefer to fight mounted, a company of wizards/otherwise magically knowledgeable people who control/summon magical beings to be used as warbeasts that they may or may not directly lead in battle and whatnot?

When the subject of seizing position-holders as prisoners is addressed, do you intend to allow the captors to ransom the prisoners, or will they just be locked away for now?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1571 on: February 10, 2019, 03:14:43 am »


When the subject of seizing position-holders as prisoners is addressed, do you intend to allow the captors to ransom the prisoners, or will they just be locked away for now?

Dev notes say interrogation, prisoner trades, executions and release.
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Death Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1572 on: February 10, 2019, 05:07:05 am »

I hope to see a bit more improvement to the conversation system so I can discover legends stuff as an adventurer, and you know, actually make a difference. (Last time I 'made a difference' was when I recruited heartspeople from a town that was being attacked, which meant that the town didn't have enough militia commanders and thus they got conquered two weeks later. Funny, but not intentional.)
I agree that the conversation system's clunkyness is probably one of adventure mode's bigger problems currently, making it harder for new people to get into the game.
The addition of the Q quest log was great though and it looks like the villain update will add some new stuff to conversations, like "Can ask about specific opportunities" and "Ability to ask after artifacts" as well as whatever is necessary for the villainy investigation stuff "Receiving tips and rumors (both modes)".

Interesting, while looking this up on the development page, I noticed that it has apparently been updated:
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html
Nice to see a whole lot more purple on there.

... who prefer to fight mounted ...
A mercenary cavalry unit would be amazing.
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CorkNite

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1573 on: February 11, 2019, 07:44:04 pm »

Will the Myth and Magic update add new structures into the game? And if so, what might they be?
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1574 on: February 11, 2019, 07:45:53 pm »

Almost certainly, yes. Some potential new structures are listed in the development page (bases of operation for wizards are one type that I remember).
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