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Author Topic: A change to strange moods  (Read 3677 times)

delphonso

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Re: A change to strange moods
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2022, 08:37:19 pm »

Also, perhaps the negative moods could be made easier to trigger. So far, I've only encountered one, and the amount of time and "work" required to achieve it was horrendous. It is surprising how much micro is involved in optimally running a terrible fort, that doesn't just cave in on itself. The "successful" fort, has to drive your dwarves just mad enough, so as to not collapse entirely, but also, to allow them to survive long enough to encounter a fell mood. It's ridiculous.

A bit off topic, but this was intentional - 44.12 was notoriously difficult to keep a fort running for a long time without psychotic spirals (though, still, in my mind, easier than even earlier editions). Back then, my larger forts had more macabre artifacts than normal ones.

Thisfox

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Re: A change to strange moods
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2022, 03:03:25 pm »

Also, perhaps the negative moods could be made easier to trigger. So far, I've only encountered one, and the amount of time and "work" required to achieve it was horrendous. It is surprising how much micro is involved in optimally running a terrible fort, that doesn't just cave in on itself. The "successful" fort, has to drive your dwarves just mad enough, so as to not collapse entirely, but also, to allow them to survive long enough to encounter a fell mood. It's ridiculous.

A bit off topic, but this was intentional - 44.12 was notoriously difficult to keep a fort running for a long time without psychotic spirals (though, still, in my mind, easier than even earlier editions). Back then, my larger forts had more macabre artifacts than normal ones.

Yes, it's definitely a sign of the times that people find dwarves on the edge of insanity and just not quite collapsing is an unusual situation. The game is slowly being made into a different beast.
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Orange-of-Cthulhu

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Re: A change to strange moods
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2022, 06:51:28 pm »

Isn't "fey" an alternative spelling of "fæ", which comes from the word "fairy"?  I'd also like to say that I think that fey moods as the "vanilla" form of strange moods should be kept, and I was more concerned about the secretive and macabre moods.

AFAIK "fey mood" is an old expression that means you're being somewhat reckless and crazy.

The very expression "fey mood" is in the Lord of the Rings book - Frodo is said to be in a fey mood when he recklessly rushes out of Shelob's lair and runs in the open.
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Miuramir

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Re: A change to strange moods
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2022, 09:37:58 pm »

The cross-pollination between "fey" and "fae" is complicated, and the actual origin gets fairly murky.  However, the sense of "fey" as implying that someone is acting not like their usual self, and frequently obsessed with something or someone, or overcome by an emotion to an unusual degree, is quite old.  It's easy to supposes that either possession by, or replacement by, some other-worldly or supernatural entity is alluded to, but it's apparently not linguistically clear how and in what order "fey", "fae", etc. acquired which of their various meanings.  Some early examples that seemed interesting:

1856 J. Ballantine Poems 207 "Wad ye rax his craig, When our daughter is fey for a man?"

1921 ‘M. Corelli’ Secret Power iii. 34 "‘But I was “fey” from my birth—.’ ‘What is fey?’ interrupted Miss Herbert… ‘It's just everything that everybody else is not’—Morgana replied—“Fey” people are magic people; they see what no one else sees,—they hear voices that no one else hears—voices that whisper secrets and tell of wonders as yet undiscovered.’"

That said, DF draws strongly from Tolkien in many places, so that is likely to be the proximate source for "fey mood".  Note that Tolkien's use of "fey mood" in particular, and "fey" in general, seems to lean toward situations involving battle-rage or death; either obsession with it, or determination to do something despite the chance of death. 

"Dread was round him, and enemies before him in the pass, and his master was in a fey mood running heedlessly to meet them.
Tolkien, J.R.R.. The Lord of the Rings: One Volume (p. 724). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition.

"Alas that a fey mood should fall on a man so greathearted in this hour of need! Are there not evil things enough abroad without seeking them under the earth?"
Tolkien, J.R.R.. The Lord of the Rings: One Volume (p. 798). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition.

"He stood a moment as a man who is pierced in the midst of a cry by an arrow through the heart; and then his face went deathly white, and a cold fury rose in him, so that all speech failed him for a while. A fey mood took him. ‘Éowyn, Éowyn!’ he cried at last. ‘Éowyn, how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death, death, death! Death take us all!’ Then without taking counsel or waiting for the approach of the men of the City, he spurred headlong back to the front of the great host, and blew a horn, and cried aloud for the onset. Over the field rang his clear voice calling: ‘Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world’s ending!’"
Tolkien, J.R.R.. The Lord of the Rings: One Volume (p. 843-4). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition.
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: A change to strange moods
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2022, 11:42:29 pm »

The cross-pollination between "fey" and "fae" is complicated, and the actual origin gets fairly murky.  However, the sense of "fey" as implying that someone is acting not like their usual self, and frequently obsessed with something or someone, or overcome by an emotion to an unusual degree, is quite old.  It's easy to supposes that either possession by, or replacement by, some other-worldly or supernatural entity is alluded to, but it's apparently not linguistically clear how and in what order "fey", "fae", etc. acquired which of their various meanings.  Some early examples that seemed interesting:

1856 J. Ballantine Poems 207 "Wad ye rax his craig, When our daughter is fey for a man?"

1921 ‘M. Corelli’ Secret Power iii. 34 "‘But I was “fey” from my birth—.’ ‘What is fey?’ interrupted Miss Herbert… ‘It's just everything that everybody else is not’—Morgana replied—“Fey” people are magic people; they see what no one else sees,—they hear voices that no one else hears—voices that whisper secrets and tell of wonders as yet undiscovered.’"

That said, DF draws strongly from Tolkien in many places, so that is likely to be the proximate source for "fey mood".  Note that Tolkien's use of "fey mood" in particular, and "fey" in general, seems to lean toward situations involving battle-rage or death; either obsession with it, or determination to do something despite the chance of death. 

"Dread was round him, and enemies before him in the pass, and his master was in a fey mood running heedlessly to meet them.
Tolkien, J.R.R.. The Lord of the Rings: One Volume (p. 724). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition.

"Alas that a fey mood should fall on a man so greathearted in this hour of need! Are there not evil things enough abroad without seeking them under the earth?"
Tolkien, J.R.R.. The Lord of the Rings: One Volume (p. 798). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition.

"He stood a moment as a man who is pierced in the midst of a cry by an arrow through the heart; and then his face went deathly white, and a cold fury rose in him, so that all speech failed him for a while. A fey mood took him. ‘Éowyn, Éowyn!’ he cried at last. ‘Éowyn, how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death, death, death! Death take us all!’ Then without taking counsel or waiting for the approach of the men of the City, he spurred headlong back to the front of the great host, and blew a horn, and cried aloud for the onset. Over the field rang his clear voice calling: ‘Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world’s ending!’"
Tolkien, J.R.R.. The Lord of the Rings: One Volume (p. 843-4). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition.

Very interesting.  Although, I noticed that your earliest quote comes from the 19th century.  Is ‘fey’ really that new of a word?

Also, the question I asked in FotF was inquiring as to the source and meaning of the phrase as Toady One used it in the game (although I do admit that the LOTR theory seems highly promising).  We’ll just have to wait and see!
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darkhog

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Re: A change to strange moods
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2022, 02:02:45 pm »

Speaking of strange moods, there should be a way to save the dwarf who failed to create an artifact, especially if the embark doesn't have the materials the mood requires. Perhaps a mental care facility (that also could help with stuff like tantrums) where the dwarf could be cured from the strange mood, with the caveat that if it is done, that cured dwarf could never make an artifact again (no further strange moods) giving the player a reason to not cure dwarfs with a strange mood, unless the dwarf ask for things that you can't provide at the moment and you really don't want to lose your best (insert profession here).
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Magmacube_tr

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Re: A change to strange moods
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2022, 05:46:47 pm »

The cross-pollination between "fey" and "fae" is complicated, bla bla bla, blah, bla bla...

Lets not take a turn into the boring and trite "Wagonmacy/Wagonurgy" area, okay?
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: A change to strange moods
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2022, 07:05:58 pm »

The Great Toad has spoken!

From FoTF:


<snip>

Quote from: A_Curious_Cat
There’s a bit of a discussion going on in one of the threads in the suggestions forum as to the meaning and origin of the phrase “fey mood” in relation to strange moods.  Could you provide any elucidation?

Silverwing235: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8344188#msg8344188
A_Curious_Cat (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8344536#msg8344536
bloop_bleep: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8344968#msg8344968
A_Curious_Cat (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8344978#msg8344978

I don't have anything new to add; I think the Tolkien sourcing is what I was working from, though I remember it from the Silmarillion more than the Lord of the Rings, I vaguely vaguely recall, though I don't remember if it was Fingolfin running off to Morgoth or something with Feanor earlier.

<snip>

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