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Author Topic: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)  (Read 8614 times)

MaxTheFox

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #105 on: May 28, 2023, 08:22:57 pm »

Conservatoids are like this regardless of religion. Hate em all equally.
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Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar?

McTraveller

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #106 on: May 28, 2023, 08:28:09 pm »

I recently gained a new philosophy thatís much more appealing and likely more effective than hate: ďunderstand, then challenge.Ē

This applies only when arguments are still in the soap box and ballot box phases though; once in the ammo box phase, sure fight back, but donít do it out of hate, as much is possible on your part.
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martinuzz

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #107 on: May 28, 2023, 08:37:28 pm »

I was hoping that anyone except Erdogoat would win the elections....
But then.. Yesterday.. Opposition candidate KiliÁdaroglu turned out to be a fucking foreigner hating nazi.
So now I am actually not too displeased with Erdogan winning. Better a journalist torturing autocrat than a foreigner hating nazi /sarcasm.

EDIT: Sorry I forgot the /sarcasm tag if it wasn't obvious
« Last Edit: May 28, 2023, 09:30:22 pm by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ≠disagree and still love each other, ≠unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

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Strongpoint

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #108 on: May 28, 2023, 08:40:38 pm »

I can, and will be bitter and aggressive about Islam though. Look, I know you guys have no completely direct equalivent, but listen. Islam is a primordial abomination that emerged from the mind of a 7th century, epileptic schizophrenic Arabic merchant with serious issues. Islam is not a good thing. Any person who looks at it from the outside and is capable of thinking will immidiately back off. Only way you can even be content in it is that if you are indoctrinated from birth and never exposed to any alternatives.

As a fellow anti-theist (not just a theist but someone who believes that religions are harmful to society), I applaud you... And I can't even imagine how awful it is living in a country in which you would have a great chance of being killed for saying what you said publicly.


PS. You are wrong about the only when exposed from birth. If it was the only way to become religious, we wouldn't have religions. Religions prey on people with mental issues, ranging from insane to those with mere depression. Such people have their mental immune systems weakened and may be suspectable to religious ideas.
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.

martinuzz

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #109 on: May 28, 2023, 08:45:09 pm »

Religion should be made like alcohol and tobacco. No religion under age 18-21. Parents who subject their children to alcohol, tobacco or religion should have their custodian rights removed and their children placed in foster care

I can, and will be bitter and aggressive about Islam though. Look, I know you guys have no completely direct equalivent, but listen. Islam is a primordial abomination that emerged from the mind of a 7th century, epileptic schizophrenic Arabic merchant with serious issues. Islam is not a good thing. Any person who looks at it from the outside and is capable of thinking will immidiately back off. Only way you can even be content in it is that if you are indoctrinated from birth and never exposed to any alternatives.
And yes indeed, Islam was founded by a mysogenistic retard who thought it was funny to call himself prophet.. But so was Christianity, and Judaism, and probably all religions that came before that. Religion is just nasty powerplay for those in power.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2023, 08:54:29 pm by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ≠disagree and still love each other, ≠unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

jipehog

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #110 on: May 28, 2023, 08:49:55 pm »

I think that religion is an agent of social control. It can have positive affect on strengthening social order, and we are entering a time of instability and uncertainty for the world which unproportionally affect the poorest countries in the world, many of which are Muslim-majority countries.

More over there are those, like Erdugan, who use it to advance its global ambitions. Also, the rise of Islamism is in cross purposes with liberal goals but otherwise I don't think that Islam is worse than Christianity or vice versa.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2023, 09:04:50 pm by jipehog »
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MaxTheFox

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #111 on: May 28, 2023, 09:11:48 pm »

Honestly as a reformist Christian I hate the fundamentalists, of any religion.

People who attack me for my faith can also fuck off and die however. It's not your business what I want to believe. Yes my old self was essentially obliterated by my conversion but that is a good thing considering what I was like.
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Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar?

martinuzz

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #112 on: May 28, 2023, 09:19:54 pm »

Feel free to believe what you will. It is fine. Just don't force it upon others, especially not children, even if it are your own children.
If religion makes enough sense, place your faith in that even if not brought up religiously, your children will choose your religion when they come of age.
You don't think they will? You of little faith! Repent!

I can, and will be bitter and aggressive about Islam though. Look, I know you guys have no completely direct equalivent, but listen. Islam is a primordial abomination that emerged from the mind of a 7th century, epileptic schizophrenic Arabic merchant with serious issues. Islam is not a good thing. Any person who looks at it from the outside and is capable of thinking will immidiately back off. Only way you can even be content in it is that if you are indoctrinated from birth and never exposed to any alternatives.
Almost spot on. I'd say though that there's two ways... One way you can even be content in it is that if you are indoctrinated from birth and never exposed to any alternatives. The other way is if you are male, and get to own and abuse three wives for free.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2023, 09:35:19 pm by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ≠disagree and still love each other, ≠unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Strongpoint

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #113 on: May 28, 2023, 09:58:40 pm »

Quote
The other way is if you are male, and get to own and abuse three wives for free.
Hey, and as many sexslaves concubines as you can afford.

Note that the 3 wives thing is rare and was and is limited almost exclusively to people with noticeably higher than average income.

Also, note that polygamy is strictly illegal in Turkey.
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.

MaxTheFox

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #114 on: May 28, 2023, 10:05:47 pm »

Если б я был султан, я имел бы трёх жён, и тройной красотою был бы окружен...
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Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar?

jipehog

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #115 on: May 28, 2023, 10:07:40 pm »

Look, I know you guys have no completely direct equalivent, but listen.
Are you certain about that

I can, and will be bitter and aggressive about Islam though.
Sure, but keep in mind that that vast majority of Turks are religious, reportedly close to half are religiously observant once a week or more. So regarding most folks around you as idiots and insulting their beliefs would not make your life easier.
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martinuzz

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #116 on: May 28, 2023, 10:08:07 pm »

Note that the 3 wives thing is rare and was and is limited almost exclusively to people with noticeably higher than average income.
There is the thing that a man needs to be able to afford to sustain his wives, but that doesn't make it any less mysogenistic.

Also, note that polygamy is strictly illegal in Turkey.
True. Turkey still benefits from AtatŁrk's secular and modern ideology. My observation was more islam-general than Turkey-specific. The three wives thing is still very much a thing in a lot of islamic countries.

EDIT: this makes for quite the conundrum over here in regard to asylum seeker laws. A person who has been granted asylum has a right to be reunited with his/her family. But if this family consists of more than 1 wife, that is illegal. However, since familiy reunion does apply to all children, and all those children have the right to be reunited with their mothers, all wives will be allowed to migrate. They will be forced to divorce though. Only one wife can stay married.
Second or third wives who do not have children will not be allowed to migrate for reunion.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2023, 10:21:21 pm by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ≠disagree and still love each other, ≠unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Strongpoint

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #117 on: May 28, 2023, 10:37:41 pm »

There is the thing that a man needs to be able to afford to sustain his wives, but that doesn't make it any less mysogenistic.

Polygyny by itself is not inherently wrong, immoral, or misogynic, It is just damn hard to make work. In my books, Islam permitting it is one of the aspects in which it is more liberal than Christianity.   

Also, there is a good amount of evidence that we evolved as monogamous species with only residual remains of a more typical among primates harem structure. Polygyny is against our instincts

Quote
The three wives thing is still very much a thing in a lot of islamic countries though.
It is mostly a thing in sub-Saharan Africa and mostly because many men die young there. Developed, stable Muslim countries usually have a low % of such marriages, and they are usually restricted and\or not popular.


PS. Claiming that a significant amount of people support Islam only to have multiple wives is just wrong and very similar to "You are an atheist because you want to have sex with everything that moves"
« Last Edit: May 28, 2023, 10:42:14 pm by Strongpoint »
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.

Egan_BW

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #118 on: May 28, 2023, 10:38:40 pm »

I don't care if someones an Arab. I live in Anatolia. Being an anti-Arab racist here would be like hating your neighbors.

I can, and will be bitter and aggressive about Islam though. Look, I know you guys have no completely direct equalivent, but listen. Islam is a primordial abomination that emerged from the mind of a 7th century, epileptic schizophrenic Arabic merchant with serious issues. Islam is not a good thing. Any person who looks at it from the outside and is capable of thinking will immidiately back off. Only way you can even be content in it is that if you are indoctrinated from birth and never exposed to any alternatives.

It isn't like Christianity, where a reformation has happened to mitigate and break apart some of its influence. You have to understand. You have to.

And some of those reformed christians turned out as calvinists so...
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Maximum Spin

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost.
« Reply #119 on: May 29, 2023, 04:02:45 am »

People who attack me for my faith can also fuck off and die however. It's not your business what I want to believe. Yes my old self was essentially obliterated by my conversion but that is a good thing considering what I was like.
I vaguely remember you saying you're Buddhist. Did you convert to or from? Because if you converted to Buddhism, obliterating the self is... well, the point.
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