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Author Topic: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.  (Read 963968 times)

Arcvasti

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14010 on: September 01, 2016, 06:06:00 pm »

Qazlal makes good characters ridiculous and bad characters mincemeat in real games. If you're strong enough to take on the entire level when they come charging out to investigate the ungodly ruckus of your storm aura, then Qazlal streamlines it immensely. If you crumple like paper beneath even a mild onslaught, Qazlal makes every level a major one, which is rapidly fatal. If you're man enough to handle THE STORM[Which most decent melee races should be], the big drawback to Qaz in the real game is the absurd piety costs on his abilities, especially Disaster Area. Mind you, Disaster Area ain't got nothing on Tornado or Apocalypse most of the time, both of which are more sustainable and similarly powerful. Still a fun god though.
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frostshotgg

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14011 on: September 01, 2016, 06:39:29 pm »

The real cost of Qaz is everything on the level knows where you are
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George_Chickens

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14012 on: September 01, 2016, 09:28:50 pm »

Why
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heydude6

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14013 on: September 01, 2016, 09:43:41 pm »

Dowan and Duvessa technically count as one unique so it's only two uniques at once. Not that special, I get multiple uniques per floor quite often. I once had to deal with four. Anyway, you aren't in that bad of a situation. Just use your teleport wand or your ridiculous Spriggan's running speed to get out of that situation and then face those guys on your own terms.

Also, don't try to dazzle Menkaure (as your combat log betrays you doing). He has see invisible which means you can't blind him.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 09:47:21 pm by heydude6 »
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14014 on: September 01, 2016, 10:07:40 pm »

The real cost of Qaz is everything on the level knows where you are

all the better

more food for the storm
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George_Chickens

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14015 on: September 02, 2016, 12:23:41 am »

What are the chances of SIgmund, Menakure and Grinder on floor 4? The former two being right next to each other.

Have Grinder and Sigmund gone through a gigantic nerf? I've not died to either in ages.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 12:33:04 am by George_Chickens »
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IcyTea31

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14016 on: September 02, 2016, 01:53:33 am »

Have Grinder and Sigmund gone through a gigantic nerf? I've not died to either in ages.
Not sure of Sigmund, but paralysis now loses effectiveness when used repeatedly, making Grinder slightly more merciful.

You also might just have got better at the game. I remember once wondering here if gnolls had been nerfed, but it turned out they hadn't been.
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Robsoie

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14017 on: September 02, 2016, 06:32:32 am »

There's certainly a lot of that, because once you have experienced the "oh there's a monster named Sigmund there ... rushing to attack him now !" , you quickly learn that it's usually a bad idea and additionally teach you a lot about Crawl-specific survival tactics (the "evaluate your chances before doing anything" "run away is a very good idea", "don't rush , instead use terrain and corridor to build your approach", "remember to look at your equipment before acting", "remember it's turn based so no need to act now" etc... )
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flame99

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14018 on: September 02, 2016, 06:37:41 am »

To my knowledge, Sigmund hasn't been nerfed at all. I think Grinder got a slight one though, beyond the paralysis spam nerf. However, both can be defeated without much fuss once you know how to play the game well, or at least avoided.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14019 on: September 02, 2016, 07:59:14 am »

Depends on the build too.  As with most things in the first few levels Minotaurs and the like can usually kill Grinder and Sigmund without any trouble.  It's one of the reasons I kind of think fighter archetypes probably shouldn't be how people get started with the game.

A lot of the important Crawl survival tactics aren't really necessary if you play a minotaur, at least up to Vaults or so.  I think that's also why tilers like Chei while everyone else hates him.  He doesn't give you tools for playing the game right, he loads the dice in your favor when you take stupid risks.  If you're the kind of person who stands there and tabs dangerous monsters to the death without any buffs up, Chei probably seems right up your alley, but if you didn't take those dumb risks you'd do better even with no god.

He's the god of "i didn't think the ogre would hit me twice in a row"
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Leafsnail

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14020 on: September 02, 2016, 08:10:02 am »

Often Grinder doesn't do very much at all, sometimes he paralyses and then kills you almost immediately. It's whether you're prepared to take that early game risk in exchange for a big XP boost if you win.
The real cost of Qaz is everything on the level knows where you are
And you also make such an unholy racket that everything on the level wakes up and comes to find you. I dunno if it's still true but I was told a while back that having a full piety Qazlal character is roughly equivalent noise-wise to casting Fire Storm on yourself every turn.

The thing is his invocations are extremely good, so it kindof balances out. But it gives his worshippers a very weird and invocation-orientated playstyle.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14021 on: September 02, 2016, 04:00:25 pm »

Depends on the build too.  As with most things in the first few levels Minotaurs and the like can usually kill Grinder and Sigmund without any trouble.  It's one of the reasons I kind of think fighter archetypes probably shouldn't be how people get started with the game.

A lot of the important Crawl survival tactics aren't really necessary if you play a minotaur, at least up to Vaults or so.  I think that's also why tilers like Chei while everyone else hates him.  He doesn't give you tools for playing the game right, he loads the dice in your favor when you take stupid risks.  If you're the kind of person who stands there and tabs dangerous monsters to the death without any buffs up, Chei probably seems right up your alley, but if you didn't take those dumb risks you'd do better even with no god.

He's the god of "i didn't think the ogre would hit me twice in a row"
"tilers"?
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heydude6

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14022 on: September 02, 2016, 04:21:12 pm »

Depends on the build too.  As with most things in the first few levels Minotaurs and the like can usually kill Grinder and Sigmund without any trouble.  It's one of the reasons I kind of think fighter archetypes probably shouldn't be how people get started with the game.

A lot of the important Crawl survival tactics aren't really necessary if you play a minotaur, at least up to Vaults or so.  I think that's also why tilers like Chei while everyone else hates him.  He doesn't give you tools for playing the game right, he loads the dice in your favor when you take stupid risks.  If you're the kind of person who stands there and tabs dangerous monsters to the death without any buffs up, Chei probably seems right up your alley, but if you didn't take those dumb risks you'd do better even with no god.

He's the god of "i didn't think the ogre would hit me twice in a row"
"tilers"?
guys who play in tiles rather than ASCII. Pretty self explanatory.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14023 on: September 02, 2016, 04:44:06 pm »

And why would that have any effect on playstyle?
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Dozeb˘m Lolumzalýs

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #14024 on: September 02, 2016, 07:16:33 pm »

Because people who are new to roguelikes use tiles, whereas people who have played for a long time / have played other roguelikes tend to use ASCII.

Of course, it's mostly an elitist word used by those in the Tavern who'd like to assert their hardcoreness and skill.

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