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[Vester]

(Don't worry, the reason I put this in the Modding forum will become clear at the end of the post).

I rarely look at the Legends screen. When I do, it's usually to map out Megabeasts and Semi-Megabeasts to hunt down and spear in the face.

Anyway, I was checking out my Legends (all the worlds I gen are called Sil Lathon. I just like the name.) and I saw this:



It was interesting enough, a war based on religious reasons - at least it wasn't some ethics thing like eating sapients. But I took a look at the person who started the war?

She was thirteen when she died. Even younger when she started it.



The best part is, she's some sort of religious leader, too. Like... war-priestess.

Married at 7, much like a lot of the sentients in DF.



She's also a murderer, apparently. Of another seven year old. Raised by Goblins. Go figure.

So anyway, I've been running around in Adventure mode murdering children, without realizing it.

Oh, and she got killed by a seven year old.



Anyway, unlike most players of DF, I still have a soul (heh). Do you guys think it would be feasible to raise the 'adult' age somewhere higher? I mean, sure, it'll make fort mode dwarves take long as hell to grow, but I could just leave those fellows as is. And it will make my Legends screen a bit easier to read.

Probably would also have critters that take longer to hit adulthood losing wars a lot, since they won't have as many soldiers.

I'm thinking Orcs hit adulthood at 10, with a correspondingly lower lifespan (rather than the immortality they seem to have). Elves and Goblins hit adulthood at... twenty, maybe? Humans hit it at 13 or 16. Kobolds at 5, to help them survive better. Dwarves either stay the same or go adult at 12.

Ideas?

[Deon]

Elves should hit adulthood between 50 and 100 .

[Vester]

Yeah, I was thinking something along those lines, but in such a world the elves would probably get wiped out (earlier than usual, at least) because, well, they're all children.

Elves could theoretically age just as fast as the other races, then suddenly stop at "middle age". I suppose that doesn't make any sense biologically, but then again neither does immortality.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

Elves ages really depends on the lore you use, but I'd imagine about 17 19 sounds appropriate for an elf, since you never seem to see any who look older than 30, but if you do they are usually thousands of years old.

I could see goblins being adults by age 8 or 9, but that would probably screw the legends right up, so about 14

Orcs.. also depend on which lore.. that would range anywhere between a year, and 25 years.

for Dwarves I think 14 would be appropriate
 
Kobolds might lower to 4 years, perhaps could make them a major contender if you put them to one years.

Humans fit rather well as 16, but perhaps a year or so younger, as I know in the olden days it wasnt uncommon to be married to a 14 or 15 year old girl, and men often started military service this young.

[Vester]

I'll try genning a world with those ages, then come back with the results.

[darkflagrance]

In the modern world, we have the luxury of relatively secure societies to ensure that children can have time to grow up, but in the pre-1400s era that DF supposedly takes place in, children are forced to grow up pretty fast.

I once saw a village whose sole defender against a 59 enemy siege was a 12 year old boy who came of age that year (the rest of the villagers were the children of soldiers who had died the previous year in an elven siege). He killed half of the invaders and drove off the rest, saving his friends' lives. If he had not been allowed to fight at that age, by forcing humans to become "adult" at 16, the village would have been destroyed.

Sure they may be children by our modern standards, but should that mean they can't take on the responsibilities of adults should the situation call for it?

[Mephansteras]

Just look at Africa. Child-soldiers are all too common there, even now.

I think darkflagrance is right, childhood in such an unstable and dangerous world is probably a luxury that few can afford.

Although I think your experiment with ages sounds interesting anyway.

[Vester]

I tried it, setting elf ages up high. They got their butts kicked to hell and back.

It actually doesn't change much mechanically, but then one of the only reasons the elves even survive is their breeding rate, I think.

It's true that a dangerous world would have children maturing (and by maturing, I mean "deadened to horrible things") very quickly, and since Toady hasn't implemented physical differences between children and adults yet, (so far as I know) it's functionally the same.

It just makes Legends easier for me to read. Also, aging the civ critters up means that I feel less bad about killing all of them, since I can identify the ones who are pre-pubescent and just cripple them instead.

Sure they may be children by our modern standards, but should that mean they can't take on the responsibilities of adults should the situation call for it?

That's true, but there's a pretty big difference between taking on the responsiblities of an adult at 12 and tearing the head off a rampaging dragon at 7.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

the ages I gave werent really based on war times or children taking on the responsabilities of adults, it was more or less based on birthrates.

Sure, humans can have babies at 13, but its much more common for them to have children at 14 or 15, simply due to biology..
 Dwarves being hardier than humans I figured would be able to bear children given their stout frames at a younger age.
 Kobolds are basically animals, which of course, tend to have rather quick lifespans, lets use wolves as a comparison

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(lizards are even faster so dont pull that one out ),

perhaps living only 20 years but being able to reproduce at the age of 2.

also, about the elves not lasting very long.. lets face it. Elves would get by on magic alone, which isnt implemented yet.. Although if you give them imp fireballs.. that should give them an appropriate edge I'd say.

[darkflagrance]

That's true, but there's a pretty big difference between taking on the responsiblities of an adult at 12 and tearing the head off a rampaging dragon at 7.

Considering that the vanilla coming-of-ages for dwarves, goblins, elves etc is 12, no matter how you skew the ages that 7-year old dragon slayer is gonna turn out pretty darn precocious.

[Vester]

the ages I gave werent really based on war times or children taking on the responsabilities of adults, it was more or less based on birthrates.

Sure, humans can have babies at 13, but its much more common for them to have children at 14 or 15, simply due to biology..
 Dwarves being hardier than humans I figured would be able to bear children given their stout frames at a younger age.
 Kobolds are basically animals, which of course, tend to have rather quick lifespans, lets use wolves as a comparison

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(lizards are even faster so dont pull that one out ),

perhaps living only 20 years but being able to reproduce at the age of 2.

also, about the elves not lasting very long.. lets face it. Elves would get by on magic alone, which isnt implemented yet.. Although if you give them imp fireballs.. that should give them an appropriate edge I'd say.

Giving the elves fireballs would probably end the world in fiery destruction. Which would be hilarious. I have strengthened Elven wood weapons, but I'm not seeing a significant improvement in worldgen wars - they're still getting slaughtered by the dozens.

I reduced Kobold ages further. In the worlds I gen they still get reduced to scattered cave settlements due apparently to getting ripped to shreds by Orcs and Goblins. (As a side note, almost all of my megabeasts get killed by Orcs or Kobolds. Kobolds are hardcore.)

The Dwarves do as the Dwarves do. They sit there and prosper. The Humans do much the same, except I think they suffered a bit in the wars. I'm going to have to test that a bit more.

That's true, but there's a pretty big difference between taking on the responsiblities of an adult at 12 and tearing the head off a rampaging dragon at 7.

Considering that the vanilla coming-of-ages for dwarves, goblins, elves etc is 12, no matter how you skew the ages that 7-year old dragon slayer is gonna turn out pretty darn precocious.

I do find it odd that the [MAXAGE] for dwarves is so (relatively) low, though.

Another side note: all of the human adventurers I start are in their mid-twenties. However I've had forty year-old kobold adventurers too. Which is a bit odd, honestly.

[darkflagrance]

Yeah, it's because the game starts you with an adventurer at about a quarter of his/her total lifespan.

When I played my Numenorean race (190-250) I regularly started with 60 to 80 year olds (kinda like Aragorn in LOTR).

[Vester]

There must be a some sort of default age, though. Can you imagine being a quarter of "immortal"?

[darkflagrance]

There must be a some sort of default age, though. Can you imagine being a quarter of "immortal"?

Immortal adventurers are considered to have been born when the world began from my experience. It also defaults to that if the creature's max age is too long compared to the age of the world; for example my 600-800 life span race adventurer was also considered to have been born before the beginning of the world.