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Messages - lijacote

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1
General Discussion / Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« on: June 30, 2015, 07:15:06 am »
Quote from: Sergarr on June 30, 2015, 05:03:21 am
I'm currently waiting until they FINALLY declare the actual, honest-to-God default with no quirks or "special exceptions" or some other shit like this. I've got Ron Paul gif on the ready and everything.
Here's hoping. I have no worries or doubt at all that the debtors will survively completely fine even with a default, but no hope that the debtors will agree to a plan that isn't actually full of needless privatisation and merciless austerity in general. The whole discourse of "but now the peoples of Germany, Finland [and so on] will not get their due" is just as false as the idea that the Greeks actually got the money that the tax payers of Europe lended. That money went straight to private banks.

2
General Discussion / Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« on: June 28, 2015, 05:54:32 pm »
Quote from: Helgoland on June 28, 2015, 01:03:19 pm
Hm. What's your opinion on the Syriza-ANEL coalition? Dumb decision, or necessary evil?
I am no expert, but my view is that it is a compromise, a tactical choice, that I don't think is at all ideal. Damage will be mitigated by Syriza having the overwhelming majority in the government, and hopefully by leftists on the field doing the work necessary to keep ANEL in check, not to mention the Golden Dawn. The KKE apparently shot down co-operation with Syriza, considering Syriza to be "the left-reserve of capitalism", which is very reminiscent of the 1930s "social fascism" label that the communists used to isolate themselves into uselessness. Unnecessary sectarianism, which unfortunately is something that communists are familiar with.

But who other than ANEL? Pasok and Nea Dimokratia are both austerity parties, Golden Dawn is an out-and-out Nazi party... To Potami? Potami seems like it'd have been a good fit with SYRIZA, who seems even bizarrely wed to the idea of staying in the euro. Perhaps its more detailed politics were in conflict with SYRIZA somehow? The commenter(s) on the Lenin's Tomb article - a website that I routinely look at - seem to think that To Potami would have sabotaged negotiations with the troika.

Even within SYRIZA, the left is not quite as powerful as it ought to be, so it comes as no surprise that there are few parties that would ally without some damage done to the left's goals.

Wait, this isn't the europol thread? :P We can pretend that this is something to reflect upon when considering the formation of working class or proletarian parties in the United States.

3
General Discussion / Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« on: June 28, 2015, 12:56:06 pm »
Quote from: Helgoland on June 28, 2015, 12:26:31 pm
Tell me, what's your opinion of ANEL?
Looks like the enemy. Right-wing populism bases itself on making the right-seeming demands in a time of crisis, and taking advantage of the people. They promise national dignity in the style of the NSDAP, and once in power enact fascist policy. Rather than analyse the situation correctly and arrive at anti-capitalist conclusions, it lays blame at the feet of different minorities, who it then persecutes while lauding the master race. If my rhetoric seems to lean heavily on the Nazi party, that's because the mechanic here for their generation is very much similar. After the first World War, with Germany in a state of catastrophic disrepair, right-wing populism thrived and built itself up until it could crush the left - the rest is history.

4
General Discussion / Re: Sheb's European Megathread: REMOVE FETA!
« on: June 28, 2015, 12:40:36 pm »
Quote from: Helgoland on June 28, 2015, 12:19:55 pm
Quote from: Sheb on June 28, 2015, 10:35:23 am
In other news, is there any poll results on what the referendum will say? In a way, I can't really blame Tsipras for going to the poll on this one, the Eurozone gave him the choice between two very unappealing options and it seems only right that the Greek get to choose which on they want.
He could've done so a week ago though. Now it's just a sign that someone called his bluff.
Quote from: lijacote on June 28, 2015, 10:04:54 am
Quote
raise the corporate tax rate from 26% to 28%
@Helgoland, I am writing the response to your post re: class. It is taking a lot of time.
Cool! I get the impression that I'm better at arguing theoretics than at arguing about realpolitik...
I would hesitate to call it very good argumentation. Here and there you reject the Marxist class analysis in between asking what it is, which to me seems very strange. Perhaps your questions are leading to a more refined representation, but I would not view your argumentation sans the constant and baseless rejection. The questions themselves are good, and helpful to me as well.

In some bad news, my browser crashed after I opened my 76th tab, leading to a wipe of my post. I should have gotten the hint earlier and started writing it in a text editor - the post will be delayed considerably, as I am today also committed to writing about the state of things for trans people in Finland on behalf of my organization, which takes precedence. Here are a couple of links that I was using to back up my post. I will not vouch for all of them, but all of them have been recommended reading (or listening) when it comes to this question of class.

Audio from Kyle Brown on WeAreMany, a source for talks and debates on socialist issues
International Socialist Review and Alex Callinicos on the "New Middle Class"

Socialist Worker articles:
Why the working class?
The disappearing working class?

I'll also spoil the central point in why we should use the Marxist definition of class: this theory is not merely for the observation of what's true and apparent, but also for the prediction of capitalist politics, and for the construction of socialist politics. Theories are tools, and they can be fit for varying purposes. When we take, for example, Sheb's way of looking at class through income, we lose a lot of detail on how people are positioned in relation to production. This kind of thinking might be useful for when you want to control exploitation and make the exploitation as fair as possible, but when it comes to revolutionary politics, looking at income levels does not help us very much. To understand why relation to production matters so much, we need to go into what makes history move, and that's further down the rabbit hole in a thread dedicated to something more general, and another reason for us to have a socialism thread -- not that I don't think it's pertinent to European and global politics, Marxist theory, but still. We are going in-depth into things that might be better preserved, observed and responded to in a thread dedicated to these issues in particular.

Quote from: Karl Marx in the very brief 'Theses on Feuerbach'
The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.

5
General Discussion / Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« on: June 28, 2015, 10:55:23 am »
Quote from: Sheb on June 28, 2015, 10:47:03 am
Except they can't be expected to balance their budgets when you force contractionist policies on them. They already have a primary surplus, despite loosing a quarter of their output.
If by contractionist policy you're referring to a potential (if extremely unlikely) settlement between Syriza and the troika, absolutely. There will be no rebalancing as long as this situation persists.

6
General Discussion / Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« on: June 28, 2015, 10:46:03 am »
We can hope that the re-balancing will involve nationalisation of key industry, of banks, of taxes levied on the rich and controls on capital, a revitalisation of labour...

7
General Discussion / Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« on: June 28, 2015, 10:19:10 am »
Quote from: Reelya on June 28, 2015, 10:11:18 am
Totally different to Weimar too. Weimar Germany had to pay reparations for WWI.

Whereas Greece has to suck Euro dick to get more handouts. The situations are not comparable. They can always not get the handouts, nobody is forcing money on them.

A comparable situation would be a welfare recipient who quit their job rankling because the welfare office demands they look for work. You always have the choice of not asking for the welfare money. If you want the welfare money, you play by the rules of those who are giving it to you.
The path to refusing this "help" offered by so many profit-seeking investors isn't simple, when it's a state that's responsible for the choice. Of course they should refuse, but it's a political challenge to get that point.

8
Other Games / Re: Europa Universalis IV
« on: June 28, 2015, 10:07:15 am »
There are a few provinces I think that really could use a trade building, but can't get one without demolition unless one develops them. I think this is bad practice, and it reeks of such free-to-play marvels as... ugh, I can't recall if Travian had bullshit like this. Surely it had?

9
General Discussion / Re: Sheb's European Megathread: The Edition Edition
« on: June 28, 2015, 10:04:54 am »
Quote
raise the corporate tax rate from 26% to 28%
This will amount to 200 million € more in taxes, if I am not quite mistaken. This is, as mainiac rightly puts it, pennies. The Syriza proposal at least has a 12% special tax in addition to it being set at 29% for those earning more than half a million (annually, I presume), which would be quite a bit more, depending on the size of Greek companies. If all of the revenue collected with corporate tax were qualified for the 12% increase for a total of 41%, the sum would be 3.34b€, a marked increase from 2.17b€. Personal income would still remain the primary source of tax income, but this way companies would not get a free ride. Of course not all companies make that much, but I'm confident that a fair few do, and that this arrangement would be at least marginally fairer to the people of Greece.

I have no faith that either side will accept the other's proposals. None at all.

@Helgoland, I am writing the response to your post re: class. It is taking a lot of time.

10
General Discussion / Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« on: June 28, 2015, 09:02:56 am »
Quote from: Helgoland on June 28, 2015, 08:51:26 am
lij, you're one hell of a weird nationalist.
I am only a nationalist to the degree that I think nations should be free of imperialism. National liberation is the extent to which I'll agree and ally with nationalism, no more than that, and no less than that. The right of all nations to self-determination and all that.

11
General Discussion / Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« on: June 28, 2015, 08:40:39 am »
Quote from: Sheb on June 28, 2015, 08:31:29 am
Mainiac made more sense: the way you presented it, they were blackmailed, but they were after all free to refuse dealing at all time (which is what is happening too). Without insisting on the duty that come with monetary policy the case doesn't stand.

It's like arguing that Europe is infringing on Swiss sovereignty because they were shut out of some programs after voting to restrict entry by Croats.
In no way does any of that justify your interpretation of anything I've said as "Greece must be bankrolled by Europe". No, I don't think it should. I think the Euro should be dismantled, or at the very least it should become a co-currency, not the currency. That would be a compromise. With the way things are in the eurozone, nations are not free to control their own currency. Not only is national currency no longer under their control, but public institutions and public security are eroded by the central authority in Europe, in the interest of paying back the loan - as if destroying the public sector did anything to help with the deficit. This "austerity" is not only threatening and destroying Greece, it has also been leveraged against my country of residence, Finland, which is one of the better-off countries in Europe, and only because we're nearing some arbitrary limit of debt (60% of GDP, IIRC) - this limit is used to justify cuts to public spending, which does fuck-all to help the economy as a whole and a lot to help the private sector.

It serves only the interest of a few investors to "keep Greece bankrolled" and in the euro, those who have invested in Greek debt. I don't give a damn if they lose out, if the end-result is that Greece doesn't have to tear down every public institution and sever all the limbs of the public economy.

Who can't refuse blackmail? Who is not free to refuse offers made at "gunpoint"? It is a dubious freedom, but it is there. This dubious freedom is what is used to defend this odious debt and these violent "contracts".

12
General Discussion / Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« on: June 28, 2015, 08:27:07 am »
Quote from: Sheb on June 28, 2015, 08:05:26 am
So you're saying that Europe should just bankroll Greece, no matter what choice they make
Nope. I wonder how you arrive at this.

13
General Discussion / Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« on: June 28, 2015, 07:57:31 am »
Quote from: Sheb on June 28, 2015, 07:39:09 am
I also wouldn't call the Syriza affair a "loss of sovereignty". Syriza is free to do whatever it wants. But the rest of Europe is also free to not give them money anymore if they do something else. I think the austerity policy were a stupid idea, but it's not an issue of loss of sovereignty.
Heh. Recently, in Finland, the government entered into negotiations with the representatives of the trade unions. Unless the trade unions agreed to enter a social contract with the government (whose contents are wholly repugnant), the government would slash ten billion from what is essentially social security and welfare. If they did agree, they would not slash quite as much (was it four billion?). Such "free" contracts. As Mainiac says, it's blackmail, and that's not a very good contract at all.

But of course, the federalist would think that blackmail is acceptable.
Quote from: mainiac on June 28, 2015, 07:50:08 am
Quote from: Sheb on June 28, 2015, 07:46:04 am
What's 'international custom' in this case?

Either treat Greece like the US treated Mexico in the 90s or treat Greece like the US treated California seven years ago.

If the US had treated Mexico like Greece is being treated Mexico would have said "Fuck you too, buddy" and just unilaterally defaulted and gone to the IMF and World Bank for an adjustment program.  If the US had treated California like Greece is being treated California would have sued and received damages through the Federal courts.  The California case is such an outlandish scenario though that it's almost absurd to contemplate and I certainly can't provide an examples.  And that's the thing, people thought that Greece being mistreated like this would be an outlandish scenario.  Germany overturned the founding principles of the Euro to protect a few banks. It's amazingly inefficient, a few bank nationalizations and tens of billions of dollars would have solved the banking side of things.
Nationalisation doesn't serve privatisation, which is an essential part of the neoliberal offensive.

14
General Discussion / Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« on: June 28, 2015, 07:35:55 am »
Quote from: mainiac on June 28, 2015, 07:29:23 am
Quote from: lijacote on June 28, 2015, 07:26:46 am
state sovereignty is damaged further

The government of Ecuador entered into a contract.  While the company in question was guilty of wrongdoing, Ecuador was in breach of contract.
Much like the "governments" of European states will enter into a contract. What government, and with whose permission, with what mandate? TTIP negotiations continue behind closed doors and there's much secrecy. If an official behind closed doors signs a contract the contents of which are secret to the public (as much as they aren't leaked), does this mean that the public has agreed to this contract? What if the official was one of the types that was actually voted by the public into office, does that then mean that the public has signed to this address? No.

This must be the democracy that so many people are enamored with. Fetishised, euphemistic, and rather limited for the demos.


15
General Discussion / Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« on: June 28, 2015, 07:26:46 am »
Quote from: mainiac on June 28, 2015, 07:11:34 am
Quote from: lijacote on June 28, 2015, 06:50:52 am
case

I dont think that link points where you intend it to?
http://kluwerarbitrationblog.com/blog/2011/11/25/tecnimont-the-saga-continues-but-is-not-yet-over/

If the Ecaudor case is the one I think it is then isn't that the case of a national government illegally seizing property after the company failed to live up to some obligations?  I can understand why the company would be given partial damages in those circumstances.
You're right. My mistake. Here's where I intended to link. "ICSID’s Largest Award in History: An Overview of Occidental Petroleum Corporation v the Republic of Ecuador"
Quote from: Sheb on June 28, 2015, 07:07:46 am
I was not defending ISDS, on the contrary. I was just pointing that company can already look for redress in national courts.

However, your original sentence ("If a company fails to turn a profit in a country, they can sue.") wasn't correct. I'm fairly certain however you didn't actually mean that any company going bankrupt can sue for its god-given right to be profitable.
My comment was ambiguous in the sense that it could be interpreted in various ways, this is true, and I'll try not to be as ambiguous.

Regardless of whatever justification you might use for any of the actions here, state sovereignty is damaged further (we already have Greece/Syriza not being able to fulfill its mandate of reversing austerity within the confines of the troika and the eurozone, as one very current example). Rather than state sovereignty, we get corporate sovereignty. Rather than public, private. Considering the history of companies as outgrowths of the monarchic state (IIRC), this is rather funny.

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