Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Belteshazzar]

There's absolutely no logical reason why a siege would set up a permanent outpost or do something ludicrous like start mining right next to the enemy

Goblins would probably consider it an added bonus to have hostiles living nearby (as would those orcs from that orc mod.) Kobalds would be very likely set up secret boltholes or such near your fort if only to make it more convenient to skim off valuable manufactured goods (and further cement their status as organized pests.) Remember that many of these races have mindsets that would be considered patently insane by human standard (dwarves themselves being the best example!)

[Pilsu]

Well it is a video game so entirely realistic behavior isn't necessary (really, trying to assault an underground fort is retarded) but I still don't see a reason they'd build log cabins instead of living in tents for their short lived incursion

[Chthonic]

It depends on how long they're going to be there.  It's entirely possible that once civilizations start sending armies after each other that a siege could last a year or more.  Instead of being a bunch of invaders milling around outside the gates to be sniped, I imagine that they'll be hunkering down to inflict some real damage . . . catapults, fieldworks, the whole bit.

[lucusLoC]

While the Romans had a habit of building a wall around the city, be it wood or dirt, I'm gonna need a historical record or two if you're going to suggest they built little cozy log cabins for an army

soldiers tended to be kept in tents regardless, but many industries were set up to help with the battle, like fetching and forging. again, for a real siege food came from the surrounding land. for a historical reference see the battle of Alesia, one of Julius Caesar more notable sieges.

[Granite26]

While the Romans had a habit of building a wall around the city, be it wood or dirt, I'm gonna need a historical record or two if you're going to suggest they built little cozy log cabins for an army

soldiers tended to be kept in tents regardless, but many industries were set up to help with the battle, like fetching and forging. again, for a real siege food came from the surrounding land. for a historical reference see the battle of Alesia, one of Julius Caesar more notable sieges.

Don't you think Alesia is famous for how crazy overboard it got, rather than as a good example of typical warfare?

[lucusLoC]

the walls sure, but Alasia was not even that long a siege. there were sieges that lasted years. look at the siege of Rhodes, do you think that the Helepolis was built without any industry set up? most siege equipment was built on the spot, including forging any of the needed metal parts. armies almost always moved with a bunch of artisans that would support it, and when they made camp for any length of time to artisans would set up temporary shops. it was fairly common practice actually.

[Rowanas]

Camp followers were common throughout the middle ages in Europe. Bands of people with many different skills would come and make a profit from the needs of armies, and while they might have no way of defending themselves they brought much needed industries.

[Dvergar]

This behaviour is extemely common in Napoleanic times, gunsmiths, cannon foundries, tailors you name it, set up shop in the surrounding suburbs when the attacking army besieged a city.

[Pilsu]

the walls sure, but Alasia was not even that long a siege. there were sieges that lasted years. look at the siege of Rhodes, do you think that the Helepolis was built without any industry set up? most siege equipment was built on the spot, including forging any of the needed metal parts. armies almost always moved with a bunch of artisans that would support it, and when they made camp for any length of time to artisans would set up temporary shops. it was fairly common practice actually.

A temporary shop was not a fucking log cabin

[lucusLoC]

who said it was? and who sait it wouldnt develoup into one if the army stuck around long enough and the smith decided he wanted a nicer structure to live and work in? it may not have a ton of historical precident (for the more permanent bulding that is) but i would buy it if the siege had already lasted a year or so. you may even get enemy civillians showing up that had little connection to the siege. a sort of hostile immigration and settlement.

this could be a verry good counter to sealing your fort. the enemy civis would feel safe showing up because you are too cowardly to show your face on the feild of battle. so no more freindly migrants, instead you get unfriendlies. and no merchats for you either, instead merchant for the invaders would show up (especialy after your merchants got slaughtered a few times in a row . . .)

[Rowanas]

P.S. Fuck precedent. This is a game in which dwarves fight goblins with picks made of adamantine that they killed frog demons to get ahold of, only to lose them to the deadly, deadly carp. Realism is important, but FUN is as well.

[lucusLoC]

well, that being sid, what is the problem with sieges establishing permanant towns outside your fort? i mean, if you refuse to come out and fight, why should they not just build their own castle right outside your gates? what is preventing them from doing that? what is preventin them from doing what players do to dark towers?

and of course once we agree to that, the OP has a good start on figuring out one stage of the ai needed to do that. we should continue the thread and flesh out the decision tree so that Toady has something to start with.

[Rowanas]

Unfortunately the point was made that this would be extremely hard to do. While it seems simple, it's actually quite hard to code the behaviour, but we could at least get a decent approximation.

[lucusLoC]

i think that is kinda the point, its hard to do. if we put our heads together and flesh out the decision tree that should at least make it less work for Toady when he does decide to implement it. somtimes defining the problem is the hardest part.

[Rowanas]

ok, sounds cool. It's nice to actually get something done on here rather than just trolling through an endless list of ever-updating posts. So, where should we start? I think defining the objectives of the goblins is best, then we can begin to specify how to emulate those objectives.