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Dwarf Fortress => DF General Discussion => Topic started by: Kogut on October 15, 2011, 08:59:35 am

Title: clothes fixed! | old poll results | poll restarted | 344/607 fixed
Post by: Kogut on October 15, 2011, 08:59:35 am
Next poll (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=105372.0)

Bugs sorted by number of votes: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=94802.msg3004185#msg3004185 list for a new edition: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=94802.msg3089089#msg3089089

Based on bugs mentioned in http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=74827.0 and http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=80514.0 - but all "why you ignored this terrible bug?" are welcomed!

Note to self: watchlist is stored in Buglist account on bug tracker.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: AWellTrainedFerret on October 15, 2011, 12:10:03 pm
I had to vote for the military equip system because in my experiences, it's caused the most fort losses. Axedwarf/woodcutters not using the same axe, crossbowdwarfs not using their bolts, and dwarfs simply not wearing their assigned armor. Most the other bugs have work-arounds and the performance drop issues don't apply unless your fort can survive long enough for it to matter without a functioning military.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on October 15, 2011, 12:19:47 pm
The worst thing is probably the clothing bug - IIRC someone found that once a dwarf's clothes started to wear away, that dwarf looked for new clothing to wear every frame. Imagine what that means for a large population with nothing to wear.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kastrol Aslaasri on October 15, 2011, 12:28:14 pm
Poor little Kobolds  :'(
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: TantrumTime on October 15, 2011, 12:31:00 pm
The most annoying bug for me is the way corpses and parts of large animals clutter a workshop.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: IT 000 on October 15, 2011, 01:18:17 pm
Giant Cave Spiders

Well, it was close, but the blunt weapons bug is probably #1 for me. I've never had any formal training, but I'm sure that if I swung a steel hammer, I'd crack an uncovered skull and probably make a satisfying ring emit from a helmeted one. With fixed blunt weapons comes a fixed whip (which was also pretty high on my list, ever since the master lasher incident. *shiver*)

However the clothing related bugs are a serious issue, but I presume they will get fixed once the economy kicks back in. That's the only reason why I didn't vote for them. Also because I modded them out once I saw these issues :P
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Komra on October 15, 2011, 03:05:00 pm
One to add to the list- lye reaction using water buckets, becoming useless without a workaround.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: thvaz on October 15, 2011, 04:07:20 pm
I wish Toady could answer the "why did you ignored this terrible bug" with some "you don't know shit about the code or the development plan so go mind your own business" but he is too polite (and he really needs the money).

Threads just asking the worst bug are fine, though.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Anathema on October 15, 2011, 04:25:26 pm
bug #1346 - Adamantine thread used for suturing.

Can we vote for best bug on the list? Cause I love that one.

Seriously though, I voted for "injured dwarves in hospital ignored by idle doctors" - unlike many of the bugs it can't be worked around or fixed in a mod, and it has the most tangible, practical effect on the game.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: DS on October 15, 2011, 07:30:18 pm
Definitely kobolds.  :-[
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Bloxace on October 15, 2011, 07:32:06 pm
I miss the Kobolds  :(
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: EveryZig on October 15, 2011, 07:43:16 pm
I vote for one not listed: Marksdwarf behavior (failing to reload and walking to the wrong side of the wall)
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: BackgroundGuy on October 15, 2011, 08:54:19 pm
I want to vote for 2481 and 3492 simultaneously.  It just bothers me that they do that.  I actually didn't know doctors ignoring patients was a bug and not a quirk of the AI.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on October 16, 2011, 12:09:35 am
The most annoying bug for me is the way corpses and parts of large animals clutter a workshop.
I replaced
bug #2676 - Fatty tissue has same melting point as rendered fat/tallow, which is far too low (0 votes)
with
bug #231 - Body parts from large creatures (bones, meat, leather, tusks, etc) slow workshops down due to clutter

One to add to the list- lye reaction using water buckets, becoming useless without a workaround.
and replaced
bug #3319 - <SPOILER> Merged with Cavern Layer and Magma Sea (0 votes)
with
Lye, water and buckets  (bug #1324 - buckets full of water were used to produce lye, bug #4230 - bucket with water inside becomes unusable, bug #1236 - buckets contain lye and water, can't be used for anything)

I wish Toady could answer the "why did you ignored this terrible bug" with some "you don't know shit about the code or the development plan so go mind your own business" but he is too polite (and he really needs the money).
It was intended as "why this bug was omitted from this list", not as "I want all bugs fixed! Now! Urist McPlayer has gone berserk!" (maybe here grammar is broken in way that distorted meaning)

I vote for one not listed: Marksdwarf behavior (failing to reload and walking to the wrong side of the wall)
Is it "2697: Military dwarfs won't shoot through fortifications (though hunters will)"?
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Mechanoid on October 16, 2011, 12:30:30 am
All of the game bugs that force you to alter or not use a part of the game in order to maintain functionality or your sanity are the worst.

Not wearing new clothes despite dropping xWorn-Outx clothes forcing you to put everyone into a military squad with the uniform clothing of the fortress, the inability to assign a Dungeon Master and forcing you to change all [PET_EXOTIC] to normal [PET] tags (i voted this, because you have to change the raws to fix it; a task that can take a while even with the replace text function) and all the other similar ones are the worst.

Piddly crap like "Dodging into open space" and "adamantine threads for suturing" arn't even bugs, it's either an intentional part of gameplay (all the way back from 2D's chasm and falling-to-death) or something that lacks an interface to control properly (ie: masterpeice cloth being used for dressings)
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Angel Of Death on October 16, 2011, 12:58:24 am
I'd say the slab glitch is. Violent ghosts destroy my game :(
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Jacob/Lee on October 16, 2011, 01:02:19 am
The clothing bug pisses me off to no end, that's one. Two would be the no wagons thing, I like dumping my useless stuff on merchants. Three would be the doctors ignoring patients, I lost my best soldier you bastards!
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Dutchling on October 16, 2011, 11:47:16 am
unengraveable unslabbifiying ghost names for me.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Trapezohedron on October 16, 2011, 12:27:16 pm
1st annoyance award goes to the clothing bug. It irritates me to no end, because I eventually end up having stark-naked dwarves who then spread disease around the fort.

2nd annoyance award goes to the infinite blood tracking thing. My dwarves end up multiplying poisonous FB around the fort, and then it goes downhill from there.

3rd annoyance award goes to the impossible mandates bug. Sometimes, I get so annoyed I turn of all mandates manually by modding the entity files.
Usually, I do that when I get Slade object mandates and the like.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Mike Mayday on October 16, 2011, 02:27:56 pm
The worst bug

is life itself.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Cruxador on October 16, 2011, 04:22:48 pm
Things that take away feature are the worst. I miss my Dungeon Masters. I want to see kobolds again, especially in the undercity areas of the upcoming release. Crystal glass being gone is of little real consequence, but I still want it back. Missing trees detract substantially from the atmospere.

Bugs that result in dwarven death, especially the one with doctors ignoring patients, can be annoying early on befor you build up a sizable workforce.

Things like adamantine sutures and contaminant spreading are part of what makes DF fun.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Jelle on October 16, 2011, 04:41:54 pm
't was a close tie between whip having lightsaber properties and the unengraveable ghosts, I chose whips.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Gizogin on October 16, 2011, 09:41:05 pm
I'd have to say the worst bug is probably the soldier ant.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: UltraValican on October 16, 2011, 09:54:57 pm
Worst bug, no seeds from cooking plants.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: EveryZig on October 16, 2011, 11:07:39 pm
Worst bug, no seeds from cooking plants.
That is a feature.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: JDF117 on October 16, 2011, 11:29:06 pm
I'd have to say the worst bug is probably the soldier ant.

  Especially in nethack.

 
  Go team ant!

  In all seriousness, the blood multiplication can absolutely destroy a fort, and renders military less than useless against carrier FBs.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: YetAnotherStupidDorf on October 17, 2011, 12:48:55 pm
I want to vote for 2481 and 3492 simultaneously.  It just bothers me that they do that.  I actually didn't know doctors ignoring patients was a bug and not a quirk of the AI.
In fact, this is both bug and not bug.

This is not bug, because healthcare is one of few jobs, where dwarf personality is very important (other job is broker - everyone know stories of lazy fucks that do everything except doing trade). So programming code that was effectively criminal negligence of patient needs was deliberate. Players are surprised, because only few jobs have personality requirements, so they are not used to take it in account.

It is bug, because game handles it crappily. You do not have easy information about your dwarfs and what jobs are best for them (UI problem). Or, alternatively, game should force every dwarf to do healthcare job as well as every other, but personalities that do not like to help others will lose happines (ai fix).
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on October 17, 2011, 02:47:35 pm
Or maybe it should be "Ignoring job" instead of "No job".
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on October 18, 2011, 11:11:41 am
Clothes are new crutches.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Makbeth on October 19, 2011, 12:35:55 pm
Didn't vote before, voting now for the one I most recently encountered:

3 goblin lashers vs 10 dwarven soldiers with masterwork iron armor ended in a flawless victory for the lashers.

Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kon on October 19, 2011, 02:06:59 pm
Hmmm, the biggest vote getter (Dwarves will claim new clothes when theirs is worn (xClothesx) but not wear it) has not been a problem for me in a long time. I make lots of cabinets, and when I see clothes starting to accumulate in a dwarf's bedroom, I give him another cabinet. I get a few claimed clothes accumulating in the Finished Goods stockpile, but not that much.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on October 19, 2011, 04:01:30 pm
Hmmm, the biggest vote getter (Dwarves will claim new clothes when theirs is worn (xClothesx) but not wear it) has not been a problem for me in a long time. I make lots of cabinets, and when I see clothes starting to accumulate in a dwarf's bedroom, I give him another cabinet. I get a few claimed clothes accumulating in the Finished Goods stockpile, but not that much.
Well, there are still problems like no protection from deadly blood, FPS loss (bug #3942) and quality of simulation also suffers (everybody running naked).
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Nameless Archon on October 19, 2011, 08:02:22 pm
I'd be willing to donate to the cause of fixing some specific bugs, over and above my prior donations, but I'd like to make the donation contingent on the fixing of some specific bugs that seem to crop up over and over again.


I know that some workarounds exist for these particular issues (like enrolling all 300 dwarves into 30 separate military groups with assigned clothing or manually assigning multiple fortress-crafted tools/weapons to a miner or woodcutter) , but I'm not interested in workarounds. I'm quite interested in these two bugs going the way of the dodo in the next public release. I'd put up some cash for each of these specific bugs to get fixed. However, I'm stuck on two points.


So, there's the first question: Does Toady take cash in exchange for providing specific bugfixes? (I'll ignore the potential ethical issues (http://i18.tinypic.com/34461wi.jpg) this request presents, for now, and assume that Toady is above such things.)
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Footkerchief on October 19, 2011, 11:20:10 pm
So, there's the first question: Does Toady take cash in exchange for providing specific bugfixes? (I'll ignore the potential ethical issues (http://i18.tinypic.com/34461wi.jpg) this request presents, for now, and assume that Toady is above such things.)

Nope.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on October 20, 2011, 01:43:53 am
So, there's the first question: Does Toady take cash in exchange for providing specific bugfixes? (I'll ignore the potential ethical issues (http://i18.tinypic.com/34461wi.jpg) this request presents, for now, and assume that Toady is above such things.)

Nope.
You may donate with message "I donated as bug #x was fixed" but it is unknown whatever it will result in more/less/the same rate of bugfixes.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: YetAnotherStupidDorf on October 20, 2011, 01:23:34 pm
You may donate with message "I donated as bug #x was fixed" but it is unknown whatever it will result in more/less/the same rate of bugfixes.
If many people would do it, for sure it would do some kind of pressure of Toady. But I do not think it will happen. From opinions gathered from this forum, I see that majority wants new features. So Toady delivers.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Makbeth on October 20, 2011, 03:11:51 pm
I once said that I'd donate if the Arsenal Dwarf was removed, and it was done shortly thereafter, but I don't think it was me (although I did donate).  I think it was because several users were complaining about it, and because it was such an obviously broken feature.  It was a rare and much appreciated display of mercy, especially since his usual approach to broken new features is to let them stay broken for months or years until he gets around to adding in all the other stuff that unbreaks them. 

The current best example of this is the DF2010 channeling, which is a nerf of the 40d channeling to keep people from quickly making impassible barriers to siegers even though indestructible walls are nearly as fast to build and aren't compromised by any tunnels that might be below them, and the whole point is moot because those who wish to cheaply avoid invasions can just turn invaders off in the init file.  Eventually, if I understand correctly, he'll give invaders the means to cross channels, at which point the channels will go back to being actual channels instead of down ramps. 

In the meantime though, it causes many more problems than it fixes.  For example when trying to keep dwarves out of new (and active) magma canals.  I once lost 5 miners in a matter of seconds because they thought to use the magma channel as a walkway, which would not have happened if they'd been actual channels instead of ramps.  Unfortunately, without a way to tell your dwarves not to go places, there are sometimes little or no options for counteracting this, and most times it's not apparent that massive fatalities will be a result until it's too late.

All these points have been made repeatedly, and the ability of siegers to bridge channels is still most likely a couple years away from being a feature, but still the channels remain nerfed.  So, when Toady shows mercy on the players, it is a rare treat indeed.  Treasure it.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: monk12 on October 20, 2011, 09:43:34 pm
I voted for the Clothing bug (the FPS killing aspect, not the fortress clutter) since I've actually become skilled enough for my forts to die FPS deaths, which unfortunately happens before I'm ready to die an HFS death. It was a near thing between that and the Dungeon Master bug, though, since missing features is always sad.

It'll be interesting to see which of these gets fixed in the next bugfixing extravaganza.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: RexMundi on October 20, 2011, 10:15:29 pm
In the meantime though, it causes many more problems than it fixes.  For example when trying to keep dwarves out of new (and active) magma canals.  I once lost 5 miners in a matter of seconds because they thought to use the magma channel as a walkway, which would not have happened if they'd been actual channels instead of ramps.  Unfortunately, without a way to tell your dwarves not to go places, there are sometimes little or no options for counteracting this, and most times it's not apparent that massive fatalities will be a result until it's too late.
you can designate areas to restrict access, with traffic zones, but, it's not fool-poof. helpful though
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: magistrate101 on October 21, 2011, 01:10:21 am
I say the kobolds starving at year 4, I was unable to smash any Koboldian skulls in!
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Makbeth on October 21, 2011, 02:45:44 am
In the meantime though, it causes many more problems than it fixes.  For example when trying to keep dwarves out of new (and active) magma canals.  I once lost 5 miners in a matter of seconds because they thought to use the magma channel as a walkway, which would not have happened if they'd been actual channels instead of ramps.  Unfortunately, without a way to tell your dwarves not to go places, there are sometimes little or no options for counteracting this, and most times it's not apparent that massive fatalities will be a result until it's too late.
you can designate areas to restrict access, with traffic zones, but, it's not fool-poof. helpful though

In this case it doesn't do much good.  We need a way to tell dwarves to not go somewhere.  What we have now is a suggestion that it's inconvenient to go there.  Again, this is a thing that we've been asking for for a long time.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on October 21, 2011, 03:20:13 am
In the meantime though, it causes many more problems than it fixes.  For example when trying to keep dwarves out of new (and active) magma canals.  I once lost 5 miners in a matter of seconds because they thought to use the magma channel as a walkway, which would not have happened if they'd been actual channels instead of ramps.  Unfortunately, without a way to tell your dwarves not to go places, there are sometimes little or no options for counteracting this, and most times it's not apparent that massive fatalities will be a result until it's too late.
you can designate areas to restrict access, with traffic zones, but, it's not fool-poof. helpful though

In this case it doesn't do much good.  We need a way to tell dwarves to not go somewhere.  What we have now is a suggestion that it's inconvenient to go there.  Again, this is a thing that we've been asking for for a long time.
Suspended wall construction? Anyway it is not bug, it is case of "AI is stupid beyond impossible due to unrecognised features, like flooding"
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: BurnedToast on October 21, 2011, 04:09:19 am
Voted for claim new clothes but not wear them, but actually I don't know which of the clothing bugs is causing FPS problems (or, in fact, if it's clothing at all).

Basically I just want FPS to stop grinding to a halt, I don't even play anymore because I know it's just going to slow down and get boring after a while.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on October 21, 2011, 04:20:42 am
FPS drop is confirmed in discussion of bug #3942 - Dwarves owning broken clothing. Clothes don't rot, ANNIHILATES FPS.

Quote from: gmafk link=http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3942
I used the save from my previous post: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4943 [^]

Items other than clothes can be easily tested using 'autodump destroy'. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work on equipped items, so I just copied results from my previous test for comparison.

Step 1: Mark items for dumping.
Step 2: Run 'autodump destroy' in DFHack.

The game starts at 39 FPS (25.64 ms) before each test. Results:

Destroying 1,7 k clothes: 54 FPS (18.51 ms), -7.12 ms
Destroying 1,7 k stone (limestone + gabbro): 40 FPS (25.00 ms), -0.64 ms
Destroying 4,5 k stone (all stone on the map): 42 FPS (23.80 ms), -1.83 ms

It seems that processing clothes takes a lot more time than processing rocks.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: snelg on October 21, 2011, 08:25:53 am
So many "good" candidates to choose from. . . :'(
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Mike Mayday on October 21, 2011, 09:53:04 am
I don't really mind the clothes problems as much as these:
-my dwarves spend days in the armour stockpile, switching equipment in a constant loop
-my archers don't grab new bolts, even when no station/kill order is active (although there should be a way to make them grab new bolts even when there are active orders!)
-both enemies and my dwarves will sometimes completely ignore unconscious enemies. If issued an order to kill them, they'll just stand next to the target.

overall, the military part of the game is THE WORST ugghhhh
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: YetAnotherStupidDorf on October 21, 2011, 01:25:59 pm
The current best example of this is the DF2010 channeling, which is a nerf of the 40d channeling to keep people from quickly making impassible barriers to siegers
I think it was done for completely different reason - to make doing big holes in ground easier. It is half-feature, because making many multi-level channel designations at once will end badly. Toady should implement also "always dig highest channels before digging any other". Hell, it is possible to dig in deeper without danger of cave-in with sufficiently intelligent "next tile to dig" choosing algorithm.

Anyway, at least now I can designate whole box instead of many stripes and other annoying micromanagement (assuming there is no digged terrain level below).

at which point the channels will go back to being actual channels instead of down ramps.
No, for reasons stated above it will not. If anything, it should be developed further.

In the meantime though, it causes many more problems than it fixes.  For example when trying to keep dwarves out of new (and active) magma canals.  I once lost 5 miners in a matter of seconds because they thought to use the magma channel as a walkway, which would not have happened if they'd been actual channels instead of ramps.  Unfortunately, without a way to tell your dwarves not to go places
There are restricted areas and burrows, but granted, doing it just for one channel is overkill. They probably should automatically avoid ramp if moving magma is nearby. Treat is as source of Fun. I personally never had this kind of problem.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: monk12 on October 21, 2011, 08:46:52 pm
I don't really mind the clothes problems as much as these:
-my dwarves spend days in the armour stockpile, switching equipment in a constant loop

overall, the military part of the game is THE WORST ugghhhh

The one time that happened to me, I figured out it was due to dwarves not layering properly. Unassigning the uniform (so they stripped naked) and then reassigning it worked, as they put on clothing in the right order.

Haven't encountered the other two though, and I tend to play military-heavy forts.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: antymattar on October 22, 2011, 04:57:43 am
What about crystal glass?
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on October 22, 2011, 05:01:07 am
What about crystal glass?

"bug #1498 - Crystal glass items can't be made, CRYSTAL_GLASSABLE appears broken"
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Makbeth on October 22, 2011, 05:29:43 pm
The current best example of this is the DF2010 channeling, which is a nerf of the 40d channeling to keep people from quickly making impassible barriers to siegers
I think it was done for completely different reason - to make doing big holes in ground easier. It is half-feature, because making many multi-level channel designations at once will end badly. Toady should implement also "always dig highest channels before digging any other". Hell, it is possible to dig in deeper without danger of cave-in with sufficiently intelligent "next tile to dig" choosing algorithm.

Anyway, at least now I can designate whole box instead of many stripes and other annoying micromanagement (assuming there is no digged terrain level below).

at which point the channels will go back to being actual channels instead of down ramps.
No, for reasons stated above it will not. If anything, it should be developed further.

In the meantime though, it causes many more problems than it fixes.  For example when trying to keep dwarves out of new (and active) magma canals.  I once lost 5 miners in a matter of seconds because they thought to use the magma channel as a walkway, which would not have happened if they'd been actual channels instead of ramps.  Unfortunately, without a way to tell your dwarves not to go places
There are restricted areas and burrows, but granted, doing it just for one channel is overkill. They probably should automatically avoid ramp if moving magma is nearby. Treat is as source of Fun. I personally never had this kind of problem.

That makes much more sense.  Still, would be nice to have the option to make sheer-walled channels.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: simonthedwarf on October 23, 2011, 12:41:14 am
Clothing, whips and the overabundance of crappy artificats. Please no more wooden amulets.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: monk12 on October 23, 2011, 08:26:43 pm
That last one isn't so much a bug as it is an incomplete feature- those artifact willow flutes are gonna be pretty sweet once dwarves play music, and artifact orthoclase toy forges will be useful once dwarven children start craving amusement.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Cruxador on October 23, 2011, 11:04:10 pm
-both enemies and my dwarves will sometimes completely ignore unconscious enemies. If issued an order to kill them, they'll just stand next to the target.
Are you sure they don't just lack the stones to kill a helpless enemy? Did you check their personalities?

I don't know if the game actually checks for that but if not it should.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on October 24, 2011, 12:52:23 am
-both enemies and my dwarves will sometimes completely ignore unconscious enemies. If issued an order to kill them, they'll just stand next to the target.
Are you sure that it is not "0004856: Immortal Dwarf (... Yet unconcious)" (it may be even immortal puppy/cow/horse)?
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Buttery_Mess on October 24, 2011, 03:19:58 am
None of these bugs particularly bothers me. By .25, most of the truly crippling bugs are gone. I'm really grateful to Toady for this. Personally, I think 'stuff overflow' is a bigger problem, which is more of a gameplay balance issue. It's not realistically possible to build a fort with sufficiently little stuff so that it doesn't affect FPS; not being a coding type, I don't know how much impact there is in this respect.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Protactinium on October 30, 2011, 01:43:16 am
I voted for one of the Clothing issues, although the military equip one would have been my second choice. The entire clothing industry is relegated to the concept of Crafts/Toys/Instruments because they're simply useless to the nudist-minded dwarves. I always have a thriving clothing industry simply because I enjoy the idea that everyone is clad in my rich midnight blue, hand-made leather cloaks with emblems lovingly stitched in silky red thread, a uniformed city that impresses all the humans, elves, and dwarves in the continent.

But no. Everyone hates the clothes I painstakingly weave for them. Unappreciated. >:(

The actual thing I hate about it is wear and tear. I create new, fresh clothes to replace the torn clothing, but they don't use it. It's annoying.



The military equip bug is similar in functional problem even if its core coding issue is completely different. I want them to make use of the products of my fort.



Some of these "bugs" listed are not bugs in my opinion. It is a very, very real possibility for warriors to accidentally dodge into a pit. You, as their overmind, need to understand HOW the dwarves' minds work and how to manipulate them into survival. Don't send them against the enemy UNTIL the dwarves will engage them in a place safe for them.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on October 30, 2011, 03:02:26 am
Some of these "bugs" listed are not bugs in my opinion. It is a very, very real possibility for warriors to accidentally dodge into a pit. You, as their overmind, need to understand HOW the dwarves' minds work and how to manipulate them into survival. Don't send them against the enemy UNTIL the dwarves will engage them in a place safe for them.
Maybe it is intended that legendary dodger will happily hop into magma - but then it may be fixed by closing as "not a bug".
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: YetAnotherStupidDorf on October 30, 2011, 06:05:46 am
It is a very, very real possibility for warriors to accidentally dodge into a pit.
Dogding in wrong direction happens too often. It is because direction of dogde is chosen radomly and dwarves do not try at all to avoid certain directions, if need arise. This - mindless hopping - IS bug.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Cruxador on October 30, 2011, 03:00:48 pm
It is a very, very real possibility for warriors to accidentally dodge into a pit.
Dogding in wrong direction happens too often. It is because direction of dogde is chosen radomly and dwarves do not try at all to avoid certain directions, if need arise. This - mindless hopping - IS bug.
Not really. It's more like the lack of a feature. A bug would be if there was a system to prevent them from hopping into the adverse conditions, but that feature didn't work right. As it is, Toady hasn't implemented any such mechanism, so there's nothing there to be bugged.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: YetAnotherStupidDorf on October 30, 2011, 03:36:13 pm
Not really. It's more like the lack of a feature. A bug would be if there was a system to prevent them from hopping into the adverse conditions, but that feature didn't work right. As it is, Toady hasn't implemented any such mechanism, so there's nothing there to be bugged.
Hmm, definition of bug and (lack of) feature gets murky here...
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on October 31, 2011, 02:48:48 am
Not really. It's more like the lack of a feature. A bug would be if there was a system to prevent them from hopping into the adverse conditions, but that feature didn't work right. As it is, Toady hasn't implemented any such mechanism, so there's nothing there to be bugged.
Hmm, definition of bug and (lack of) feature gets murky here...
It is similar to crutches - skill is prepared (crutch walking/dodging), penalties are implemented ("ability to stand lost"/drowning or injuries after failing) there are certain things that should be used (crutches/traits and attributes). I like to call it "design bug".
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: thvaz on October 31, 2011, 03:19:02 am
Not really. It's more like the lack of a feature. A bug would be if there was a system to prevent them from hopping into the adverse conditions, but that feature didn't work right. As it is, Toady hasn't implemented any such mechanism, so there's nothing there to be bugged.
Hmm, definition of bug and (lack of) feature gets murky here...
It is similar to crutches - skill is prepared (crutch walking/dodging), penalties are implemented ("ability to stand lost"/drowning or injuries after failing) there are certain things that should be used (crutches/traits and attributes). I like to call it "design bug".

Aren't crutches working now?
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on October 31, 2011, 10:11:44 am
Not really. It's more like the lack of a feature. A bug would be if there was a system to prevent them from hopping into the adverse conditions, but that feature didn't work right. As it is, Toady hasn't implemented any such mechanism, so there's nothing there to be bugged.
Hmm, definition of bug and (lack of) feature gets murky here...
It is similar to crutches - skill is prepared (crutch walking/dodging), penalties are implemented ("ability to stand lost"/drowning or injuries after failing) there are certain things that should be used (crutches/traits and attributes). I like to call it "design bug".

Aren't crutches working now?
Yes, but it was reported as bug and closed as fixed ( 0000681: Legless/footless dwarfs are ignored by healthcare ).
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Smitehappy on October 31, 2011, 11:00:35 am
I don't think dodging into pits/water/lava is really a bug. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that in combat one might be forced to dodge a blow in a certain direction(IE: A sword comes from the right, you jump left) and fall. Plus it'd be a great use of the Kinesthetic Sense skill. Higher levels mean more directed dodging.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Pickerel on November 02, 2011, 04:05:52 pm
Adamantine thread isn't a bug, it's a feature.  A feature that can make a dwarf's injured hand worth more than everything they own or wear.
Dude, have you ever really LOOKED at your hand?  Wooooah...
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: bombzero on November 05, 2011, 07:47:05 pm
I voted for the one about blunt weapons, probably due to liking adventure mode for main play and playing Fortress Mode on my bored days.

although.... a number of issues with combat are directly addressed by the Genesis mod, especially the blunt weapon one and several workshop ones.

but on the note of what IT said on page 1, i HAVE had formal training with a variety of medieval weapons, and yea, a steel warhammer could quite easily crush in the head of someone even with a helmet. in fact, the class required signing a health waver before taking the blunt/heavy weapons section even though we used weapons with about 3 inches of padding and never actually swung them. kinda left swords as the most interesting part of the class since you can actually spar with blunted swords and stuff....

(god dammit i always ramble)
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Moonshadow101 on November 06, 2011, 11:46:59 pm
Voted for clothing. I would really, really appreciate it if the high-quality clothing I create wasn't just another useless craft item to throw at caravans.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Johuotar on November 07, 2011, 05:07:50 am
I voted clothing too, I hate clothes of dead goblins and dorfs cluttering my fort because dorfs claim them.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Romaq on November 07, 2011, 05:21:02 am
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4833 is one I'd add. It looks like I can do a 10x10 embark, but 16x16 returns a crash when I hit around 1.9G or so. If I go way over, I crash to the desktop. If I cut it close, I can get to the embark screen and hang forever.

There should at least be work to do exception handling to return an out of memory error even if the software must die. Better yet if some form of error checking can prevent a request for data (too large a size) that will blow the memory up. Anyway, much is suggested in the bug report, but this is going to confuse the hell out of newbie people with higher-end machines figuring their Win 7-64 bit 9G memory machine shouldn't have any trouble, then wonder why they get to the embark point and it crashes to the desktop no matter what.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on November 07, 2011, 05:37:07 am
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4833 is one I'd add. It looks like I can do a 10x10 embark, but 16x16 returns a crash when I hit around 1.9G or so. If I go way over, I crash to the desktop. If I cut it close, I can get to the embark screen and hang forever.

There should at least be work to do exception handling to return an out of memory error even if the software must die. Better yet if some form of error checking can prevent a request for data (too large a size) that will blow the memory up. Anyway, much is suggested in the bug report, but this is going to confuse the hell out of newbie people with higher-end machines figuring their Win 7-64 bit 9G memory machine shouldn't have any trouble, then wonder why they get to the embark point and it crashes to the desktop no matter what.
Done
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Romaq on November 07, 2011, 06:54:17 pm
Thank you. I've backed my default settings to 10x10, I was allowed to embark, but then I crashed on a save so I'll back it down and start over at 9x9. I'm *almost* tempted to set up a Linux VM and run DF that way to see if I can get more apparent memory, but I think I'll just do with a 9x9 start instead and see how close I can come to blowing that up without quite actually doing so.

DF does need better memory management for at least exception handling, but at least a 'safety' of some sort to keep me from making obviously too high a demand is a start. :)
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: ashein on November 09, 2011, 04:11:56 pm
Voted for one of clothing bugs. Though I'm playing on a 1x1 embark with no immigration (disabled dwarven caravans), the amount of child-claimed stuff that doesn't get moved to cabinets and the XXs in my dwarves' inventories turn the fort into a classical "smells like DF" state. Granted, the load is insignificant for me (and I capped FPS to 33), but the bug has no ingame workaround except for dfhack maybe, haven't tried that though.

The Dungeon Master bug has a dirty solution - changing creature tags. Kobolds can be "fixed" by genning the world with  NO_EAT/NO_DRINK against their raws. I rarely met rock crystals to even try making the glass. Dodging, military, weapons etc are just part of the game, you can adapt to them. 
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: tolkafox on November 11, 2011, 02:42:32 am
How did you do a 1x1 embark? Pray tell, I want a 30 year old 100 FPS fort already.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: ashein on November 13, 2011, 11:18:44 am
How did you do a 1x1 embark? Pray tell, I want a 30 year old 100 FPS fort already.
I used nanofortress (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21601.0) for that. Have to run it while on embarking screen, it forces the embark rectangle to 1x1. It even works in linux under Wine in my case.

It also looks like by year 7 or something all the "passing" creatures except FBs are exhausted on my map :( dammit, these giraffes were tasty.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: hoveringdog on November 13, 2011, 01:10:48 pm
I voted the clothing bug. Besides the contagion issue, I've always wanted to build a fortress specializing in clothing production, especially now that we have wool- and hair-based cloth, but if the dwarfs won't wear the fancy raiment they manufacture, kinda disappointing.

Wasn't there some history to this bug, that clothing used to work but it was disabled because it caused some other issues having to do with clutter?

Also, the bug tracker lists it as "resolved," but do marksdwarves now choose the proper bolts assigned for practice? Last I tried, they still weren't distinguishing between bolts assigned for combat and those assigned for practice, but that may have been a few versions ago.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: thegoatgod_pan on November 14, 2011, 03:01:51 am
I vote clothing bug as well, many of the others I feel are either minor or practically features:
e.g.

impossible mandates due to strange preferences is usually amusing: dwarven nobility do not have to make reasonable demands; human nobility has certainly been known to be problematic, and I see no reason to fix even the possibility of a slave-driving, slade-item demand monster of a noble in my fort.

Adamantine thread used for suturing: your dwarves being vain, getting arms sewn back on with the strongest, most expensive stuff in the universe.

ody parts from large creatures (bones, meat, leather, tusks, etc) slow workshops down due to clutter I always saw as part of the realism of the game

Dodging into river/lava/from cliff again this I thought was one of the reasons for the spatial awareness trait, and simulated the death-by-dramatic-fall trope.

Siegers waiting by bodies of dead leaders: also somehow appropriate. Honor guard

Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on November 14, 2011, 04:15:24 am
Dodging into river/lava/from cliff again this I thought was one of the reasons for the spatial awareness trait, and simulated the death-by-dramatic-fall trope.
spatial awareness trait is unused, dodging is completely random (with 4 magma tiles and 4 grass tiles half of creatures will dodge into magma)
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: kaenneth on November 14, 2011, 07:51:56 am
I voted the clothing bug. Besides the contagion issue, I've always wanted to build a fortress specializing in clothing production, especially now that we have wool- and hair-based cloth, but if the dwarfs won't wear the fancy raiment they manufacture, kinda disappointing.

Wasn't there some history to this bug, that clothing used to work but it was disabled because it caused some other issues having to do with clutter?

Also, the bug tracker lists it as "resolved," but do marksdwarves now choose the proper bolts assigned for practice? Last I tried, they still weren't distinguishing between bolts assigned for combat and those assigned for practice, but that may have been a few versions ago.

In Software QA, 'Resolved' means the developer has changed the code in an attempt to fix it, but it hasn't been confirmed that the bug is actually fixed.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: YetAnotherStupidDorf on November 14, 2011, 02:14:59 pm
In Software QA, 'Resolved' means the developer has changed the code in an attempt to fix it, but it hasn't been confirmed that the bug is actually fixed.
Nah. In this case, only "Resolved" signed by Toady One is worth anything. If it is signed by someone else, then it should be, for example, "Duplicate". Or "Cannot reproduce". Or "Not a bug". Or "Will not be fixed, bite me". Gotta love that even bug tracker have rather bad decisions executed.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Cruxador on November 14, 2011, 03:26:47 pm
In Software QA, 'Resolved' means the developer has changed the code in an attempt to fix it, but it hasn't been confirmed that the bug is actually fixed.
Nah. In this case, only "Resolved" signed by Toady One is worth anything. If it is signed by someone else, then it should be, for example, "Duplicate". Or "Cannot reproduce". Or "Not a bug". Or "Will not be fixed, bite me". Gotta love that even bug tracker have rather bad decisions executed.
That stuff is what "closed" is for.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: YetAnotherStupidDorf on November 14, 2011, 03:43:15 pm
Nah. In this case, only "Resolved" signed by Toady One is worth anything. If it is signed by someone else, then it should be, for example, "Duplicate". Or "Cannot reproduce". Or "Not a bug". Or "Will not be fixed, bite me". Gotta love that even bug tracker have rather bad decisions executed.
That stuff is what "closed" is for.
I know, I was just mean. My examples, in fact, should apply to Resolution field (that at least is used properly on DF Mantis).

But most visible field, Status, is wrongly used. Yes, you are right, it should be "Closed", but it is almost always "Resolved".
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Quietust on November 15, 2011, 10:40:11 pm
The crystal glass bug isn't that bad, considering a fix exists. Granted, said fix involves hex-editing "Dwarf Fortress.exe" by hand, and said fix only works on Windows, but it's a fix nonetheless.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on November 16, 2011, 03:39:40 am
The crystal glass bug isn't that bad, considering a fix exists. Granted, said fix involves hex-editing "Dwarf Fortress.exe" by hand, and said fix only works on Windows, but it's a fix nonetheless.
It is a bit infuriating to save game, replace DFhack exe with crystalbugfixedexe, make crystal glass, replace crystalbugfixedexe with DFhack exe etc...
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Another on November 22, 2011, 07:07:12 am
I think that whips regularly breaking major bones through best steel armor possible are not an intended part of the game. That class of weapons is visibly broken now.

Combat system in general. Death from external blood loss and internal hemorrhaging may be too rare now as an overreaction to being too common at first. Blunt weapons only ever kill by targeting head and "breaking" brain. Bloodloss from multiple arrows is only significant for small animals. There is no cumulative damage so you cannot "saw off" a limb by repeatedly hitting it with a jagged knife. Maybe some more combat rebalancing had already been done for the new release and it will continue to converge to making sense. It affects both Fortress and Adventure modes.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Rafal99 on November 22, 2011, 08:55:28 am
There is no cumulative damage so you cannot "saw off" a limb by repeatedly hitting it with a jagged knife.

Actually there is cumulative damage. It was added in one of the first 0.31.X versions because bronze collossuses and undead were unkillable.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Another on November 22, 2011, 02:10:06 pm
What you refer to is a supplemental global hit points system that at least undead use in addition to usual ways to die. All other damages do not stack. If you are not physically able to decapitate a creature with a lucky first hit than no amount of repeated hacking its neck will accomplish it.

As far as I know it was put into place as a temporary fix and causes its own problems. Like not properly registering a kill for historical purposes and killing skeletons with a single hit to a lover leg with a _really sharp crossbow bolt_.
Something like [SEVERE_ON_BREAK] is not working and cutting limb muscles and tendons of a living creature do not impair its functions unless a nerve was also cut. Only damage to hands and feet has some consequences, not to anything between them and the body.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Sphalerite on November 22, 2011, 02:30:18 pm
3rd annoyance award goes to the impossible mandates bug. Sometimes, I get so annoyed I turn of all mandates manually by modding the entity files.

I have a fix for this bug that prevents impossible materials from showing up in mandates while leaving mandates in place, but it's a fairly major reworking of the raws, creating a lot of custom materials and material templates.

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5190
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: assimilateur on November 25, 2011, 09:03:53 am
Well, there are still problems like no protection from deadly blood, FPS loss (bug #3942) and quality of simulation also suffers (everybody running naked).

This wouldn't be half as bad if assigning uniforms worked for everyone. But now even if you go to the trouble of drafting and uniform everyone, hunters, woodcutters and miners still end up naked.


That reminds me: I vaguely remember reading that this not-wearing-clothes business was introduced intentionally. If that is correct, can you perhaps shed some light on why this was done?
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: YetAnotherStupidDorf on November 27, 2011, 05:35:46 pm
What you refer to is a supplemental global hit points system that at least undead use in addition to usual ways to die. All other damages do not stack.
Yes, they stack (why do you think blobs and Bronze Colosuses stopped being unkillable after one certain release?). Hitpoints for undead are separate pseudo-fix that waits for implementation of pulping. One would think that release with Undead Apocalypse(tm) getting so much work and attention would have it implemented. Meh.

All other damages do not stack. If you are not physically able to decapitate a creature with a lucky first hit than no amount of repeated hacking its neck will accomplish it.
That was true before mentioned version. Currently nope, BC is killable even with wooden bolts. After few decades of constant pepering. Best marksdwarf training dummy ever.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Another on November 28, 2011, 03:16:13 am
OK, it will die. But will its head or lower body ever be lopped off with a steel dagger?
It will just become red relatively fast and stay in that state all the way until global hit points pool runs out.

I also count on the next release to have improved combat with undead. The introduction (and presumably testing) of mummies should be especially relevant.

I do not expect a comprehensive fix to bronze colossus until items (armor and weapon) hit points system is implemented. It is probably not worth rebalancing creatures that mostly work now if treating them as a suit of really thick armor will automatically make everything right sometime in the future.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Romaq on November 28, 2011, 07:08:44 am
Added to the 'embark' memory problem, now that StoneSense is in a DLL, things start getting cramped. I have a high-end machine. I love having lots of land. I do *not* love having things crash because I get just a bit too close to the Winblows memory limit.

I've already asked the StoneSense folks if they could have their DLL code be a 'thin server' for which the StoneSense 'client' talks to the DLL. That gives us the bonus of StoneSense running a separate thread on multi-core CPU's as well as making memory 'shoe-horning' less an issue.

I do have a very high-end machine. I would be very happy if I could put it to work with DF. :)
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: The13thRonin on November 29, 2011, 04:24:38 pm
Poor kobolds!
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on December 14, 2011, 08:56:22 am
I added "bug #4856: Immortal Dwarf (... Yet unconcious) [or any other creature]"
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Caldfir on December 14, 2011, 10:50:58 pm
As someone who has played a LOT of adventure mode, I have to disagree with a great number of complaints about combat being voiced here. 

Blunt weapons are quite effective against armored targets.  True, steel hammers aren't as effective as those constructed from other denser materials, but I can't really think of a good reason to think steel blunt weapons should be more effective than ones made of copper or silver.  I think the historical reason for the switch has more to do with the durability of steel, and since weapons cannot currently break, this does not matter.  One definite problem with blunt weapons is that the combat AI is supremely dumb about using them, attempting to bludgeon fingers and whatnot, so they frequently seem less good than they are. 

Bleeding to death happens all the time in the game.  It is, in fact, among the only ways to kill some of the larger creatures, as severing their bodies does not work.  Frequently creatures pass out from blood loss, and this makes them easy targets for other attacks, despite the blood loss being the real reason for death, so you don't get the message saying they "died from blood loss" come up nearly as much as you might expect it to. 

I would agree that on the whole whips and scourges are too strong.  Generally this is because a whip made of steel does not really make sense as a thing that could exist in the real world.  I guess you can hit someone with chains, but I really wouldn't designate such an item as a "whip".  In my  mind the fix for this would be to simply remove them from the game, apart from possibly as disciplinary weapons (human equivalent of the hammerer?) and even then force them to be constructed from leather, since something with the flexibility to move as fast as a whip, and constructed from something as hard and heavy as metal would shatter your organs through armor. 

As for the hitpoints thing, this is to be fixed at some future time by implementing "pulping".  Currently you can mangle bodyparts to the point of unusability, but without explicitly severing the part, it does not actually come closer to being broken off or destroyed.  I expect this will come up sooner rather than later, since all the necromancer/undead stuff is going to require a satisfying way to kill the damn things, so it is likely to be in the forefront of Toady's mind. 
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Another on December 16, 2011, 11:37:52 am
I think that most of the counter-criticisms are somewhat valid but want to notice that in my experience creatures usually pass out from accumulated pain and not blood loss even with major arteries cut long ago.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on December 20, 2011, 05:41:58 am
As I found this thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=97766.0) I added "bug #1609: Immigrant dwarves' skills often don't match their job settings"
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: SirFellfire on December 25, 2011, 03:56:02 pm
I had to vote for the military equip system because in my experiences, it's caused the most fort losses. Axedwarf/woodcutters not using the same axe, crossbowdwarfs not using their bolts, and dwarfs simply not wearing their assigned armor. Most the other bugs have work-arounds and the performance drop issues don't apply unless your fort can survive long enough for it to matter without a functioning military.

motherfucking THIS, only with miners. i personally think that the blunt-damage inmortality thingie is a real pain, but not so much to worry about once you have' em on the floor being pulp; just throw some weapon variety in your hammerdorfs squads and you will (eventually) get that blob of gore which used to be a mountain goat beheaded/shot/drained of blood  :D
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: SauliusTheBlack on January 24, 2012, 08:31:09 am
(Military) equipment by far, followed by bone art defacement and baron-appointments
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Orkel on January 24, 2012, 09:19:16 am
the most annoying one is that every punch or kick seems to jam the skull into the brain. every single fight ends that way, combat variety suffers greatly.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Ferozstein on January 24, 2012, 10:20:24 am
Just one bug to choose?... Damn, there's at least ten that I'd really like to see fixed on highest priority (even higher than getting new stuff). My vote goes for the stupid workshop cluttering by body parts, but the clothing, armor, adamantine thread and crystal glass are very close behind. I also very much dislike things that worked before but now do not, like the lack of wagons, dungeon master or elf diplomats.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Gizogin on January 24, 2012, 01:42:59 pm
The elf diplomats at least you can add back in yourself.  They function as normal, including asking you to restrict your logging activities.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: loose nut on January 24, 2012, 01:52:42 pm
Ranking by annoyance:

- pools of blood etc. multiply, never seem to vanish
- don't wear clothes (somehow not quite as annoying as the .40d barracks pigsty problem, though; also even with fps hit DF 2010 goes faster than .40d, for me)
- the bucket bug
- erratic equipment for military (sorting out gauntlets is painful)
- body parts clog up workshops
- marshes in your embark area turn all your water to crap unless you take strange special measures

Not particularly annoying IME

- blunt weapons seem to work ok for me; whips are a problem though. I'm more annoyed about the ineffectiveness of crossbows which are used to disable all the target's fingers and toes prior to aiming for center of mass
- impossible mandates - this was in .40d too, I'm just used to it
- dodging to your death just seems like a feature

I miss them when I think about them

- no kobolds
- no nobles besides presiding baron
- no wagons
- no crystal glass
- no diplomats, no making requests of the human merchants
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: mikelon on January 24, 2012, 10:55:10 pm
I miss the economy
and the guilds
and chasms
and yearly flooding
and elephants being death gods
and carp being the scourge of water bodies

but i vote for the most annoying, dwarves not using ammo. Theres a work around but its hard and not worth it. Wish is sad since markdwarves add another layer of depth to fortress defense
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: werechicken on January 25, 2012, 02:48:44 pm
Having lost most of my military five times in a single fortress I'd say the equipment bug is probably the most annoying. I've had dwarfs run out into combat half equipped when I have stacks of steel armour lying around.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: mnjiman on January 26, 2012, 12:34:59 am
Great list of annoying bugs that must be fixed.

It was very difficult to pick a single one, but I ended up going for the idle doctor not fixing my dwarfs. This one has gotten on my nerve a bunch of times and is one bug that feel as if it breaks the game for me.


All of these bugs should be fixed.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Lexx on January 27, 2012, 10:14:29 am
For me its the clothing bug. I like to keep my forts orderly. Then my residents just scatter their possessions everywhere :/. Or a militia member goes out solo to claim clothing only to be killed by siegers/ambushers/titans.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: miauw62 on January 27, 2012, 12:41:41 pm
All of the game bugs that force you to alter or not use a part of the game in order to maintain functionality or your sanity are the worst.

Not wearing new clothes despite dropping xWorn-Outx clothes forcing you to put everyone into a military squad with the uniform clothing of the fortress, the inability to assign a Dungeon Master and forcing you to change all [PET_EXOTIC] to normal [PET] tags (i voted this, because you have to change the raws to fix it; a task that can take a while even with the replace text function) and all the other similar ones are the worst.

Piddly crap like "Dodging into open space" and "adamantine threads for suturing" arn't even bugs, it's either an intentional part of gameplay (all the way back from 2D's chasm and falling-to-death) or something that lacks an interface to control properly (ie: masterpeice cloth being used for dressings)

About the PET and PET_EXOTIC thingy, if you have notepad++ you can simply go to replace, then click 'search in files' select the raws folder and it can replace all the PET_EXOTIC whit PET in a quick moment :D
(i just discoverd this myself. seems like a nifty tip. also, this is one of my first posts.)
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Felgar on January 27, 2012, 02:43:27 pm
bug #1376 - Presence of saltwater marsh causes mountain brooks/pools to become salty

It’s even worse than that. I once did an 8x8 start on the coast where a huge major river (about 30 tiles across) emptied out into the sea, only about 1-2 rows of the 8x8 area included parts of the sea, so the ocean was along the east edge of my large starting area. I played about 3-4 years into the game and never realized there was no fresh water on the map until injured dwarves started dying of thirst. The entire length of the huge river, all lakes and even the underground water areas were all salty.

The odd part is, my fisher dwarves had been catching fresh water fish out of the river, so I missed the fact it was salty until it was too late for about 7 injured dwarves. I ended up abandoning that game after digging frantically to try and find fresh water underground. Once it was obvious none was to be found, I could think of no other possible solution.

Another thing I’ve noticed is there are never any fish in the underground waterways, even if the water is fresh water. I even constructed a huge waterfall once that diverted part of an above ground river through a deep vertical shaft to pour into a vast cavern with an underground lake in an attempt to seed the lake with fish, but no fish ever appeared. I saw them in the water channel leading to the vertical shaft, so they did get pulled out of the river, but none ever appeared in the underground lake.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on January 27, 2012, 03:10:26 pm
bug #1376 - Presence of saltwater marsh causes mountain brooks/pools to become salty - added
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Quietust on January 27, 2012, 03:14:28 pm
The crystal glass bug isn't that bad, considering a fix exists. Granted, said fix involves hex-editing "Dwarf Fortress.exe" by hand, and said fix only works on Windows, but it's a fix nonetheless.
It is a bit infuriating to save game, replace DFhack exe with crystalbugfixedexe, make crystal glass, replace crystalbugfixedexe with DFhack exe etc...
A bit of a late reply, but if you use the newer version of DFHack (which loads into DF itself in place of SDL.dll), then you can edit the EXE all you want and it won't care.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on February 18, 2012, 01:10:11 pm
I locked voting. Results:

95
bug #2481 - Dwarves will claim new clothes when theirs is worn (xClothesx) but not wear it

67
bug #3942 - Dwarves owning broken clothing. Clothes don't rot, ANNIHILATES FPS.

66
bug #3453 - Baron/etc. cannot appoint baron-appointed nobles, such as the Dungeon Master

46
bug #535 - Equipping weapons/armor on military is erratic

41
bug #4025 - Every kobold starves to death at exactly year 4 in world gen

30
bug #1582 - Injured dwarf in bed in stocked hospital ignored by idle doctors

27
bug #2712 - weapons, especially whips, cut through steel armor like butter

25
bug #296 - Pools/smears/spatters of blood, dust and other materials multiply themselves, get tracked around too much

25
Lye, water and buckets  (bug #1324 - buckets full of water were used to produce lye, bug #4230 - bucket with water inside becomes unusable, bug #1236 - buckets contain lye and water, can't be used for anything)

19
impossible mandates (slade - bug #782, blue jay tooth etc - bug #1623) due to strange preferences (wagon wood - bug #3676 etc)

18
bug #3708 - Ghost names that can't be engraved on a slab and nameless slab engravings

14
bug #425 - Dwarves Not Cleaning Blood

14
bug #3898 - Entire Bone Statcks are used in Reactions instead of a single Bone

14
bug #231 - Body parts from large creatures (bones, meat, leather, tusks, etc) slow workshops down due to clutter

14
bug #2327 - Blunt weapons extremely ineffective, extended single combat with groundhog

13
bug #4550 - Dodging into river/lava/from cliff etc

13
bug #1346 - Adamantine thread used for suturing.

11
bug #4133 - Good/evil plants/trees don't appear (feather trees, glumprongs, sliver barbs, and sun berries)

10
bug #4552 - Siegers waiting by bodies of dead leaders

9
bug #1498 - Crystal glass items can't be made, CRYSTAL_GLASSABLE appears broken FIXED!

8
bug #197 - No wagons in trader/merchant caravans FIXED!

8
bug #1899 - Game locks up for 30 min during seasonal temperature shift (Seasonal ice melting)

6
bug #4833: When embarking, crashes when memory use reaches 2GB.

5
bug #1376 - Presence of saltwater marsh causes mountain brooks/pools to become salty

3
bug #3685 - Goblin squads invading a fortress will kill their non-goblin squadmates, sparking loyalty cascade

2
bug #3169 - Bone carvers suffer art defacement when somebody leaves the map with stuck-in masterpiece bolts

2
bug #524 - Liquid glob material breath attacks come out solid

2
bug #1609: Immigrant dwarves' skills often don't match their job settings

0
bug #4856: Immortal Dwarf (... Yet unconcious) [or any other creature]
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on February 18, 2012, 02:14:17 pm
All information about new terrible bugs/fixing bugs from this list are welcomed.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Yaotzin on February 18, 2012, 02:20:26 pm
The lye/water/bucket one got fixed too.

Kobolds don't starve to death at year 4. Many dead kobold thieves from years 5-~12 can attest to this. Or could if their brains weren't smashed in.
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on February 18, 2012, 02:29:41 pm
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1324 is tagged as resolved but http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4025 is still open
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Bronimin on February 18, 2012, 03:35:51 pm
-
Title: Re: The worst bug - poll
Post by: Kogut on February 19, 2012, 06:18:48 pm
Spoiler: Outdated (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The worst bug - inactive 31.25 poll
Post by: Kogut on March 13, 2012, 06:10:52 am
I wait for new suggestion for top-priority bugs for the next edition of poll. Current results:

Fixed:

bug #2481 - Dwarves will claim new clothes when theirs is worn (xClothesx) but not wear it

bug #3942 - Dwarves owning broken clothing. Clothes don't rot, ANNIHILATES FPS.

bug #231 - Body parts from large creatures (bones, meat, leather, tusks, etc) slow workshops down due to clutter

bug #4025 - Every kobold starves to death at exactly year 4 in world gen

bug #1324 - buckets full of water were used to produce lye

bug #1498 - Crystal glass items can't be made, CRYSTAL_GLASSABLE appears broken

bug #197 - No wagons in trader/merchant caravans

bug #3453 - Baron/etc. cannot appoint baron-appointed nobles, such as the Tax Collector

bug #4133 - Good/evil plants/trees don't appear (feather trees, glumprongs, sliver barbs, and sun berries)

bug #1899 - Game locks up for 30 min during seasonal temperature shift (Seasonal ice melting)

Current:

46 votes
Bug #535 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=535): Equipping weapons/armor on military is erratic

30 votes
Bug #1582 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1582): Injured dwarf in bed in stocked hospital ignored by idle doctors and #94 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=94): Injured dwarves not recovered, ignored by doctors, and/or don't get food/water

27 votes
Bug #2712 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2712): weapons, especially whips, cut through steel armor like butter

25 votes
Bug #296 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=296): Pools/smears/spatters of blood, dust and other materials multiply themselves, get tracked around too much

25 votes
Lye, water and buckets  (bug #4230 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4230) - bucket with water inside becomes unusable, bug #1236 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1236) - buckets contain lye and water, can't be used for anything)

19 votes
impossible mandates like blue jay tooth etc - bug #1623 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1623) due to strange preferences (wagon wood - bug #3676 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3676) etc)

18 votes
Bug #3708 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3708): Ghost names that can't be engraved on a slab and nameless slab engravings

14 votes
Bug #425 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=425): Dwarves Not Cleaning Blood

14 votes
Bug #3898 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3898): Entire Bone Statcks are used in Reactions instead of a single Bone

14 votes
Bug #2327 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2327): Blunt weapons extremely ineffective, extended single combat with groundhog

13 votes
Bug #4550 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4550): Dodging into river/lava/from cliff etc

13 votes
Bug #1346 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1346): Adamantine thread used for suturing.

10 votes
Bug #4552 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4552): Siegers waiting by bodies of dead leaders

6 votes
Bug #136  (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=136)When embarking on large area, DF hits 2GB memory limit and crashes

5 votes
Bug #1376 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1376): Presence of saltwater marsh causes mountain brooks/pools to become salty

3 votes
Bug #3685 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3685): Goblin squads invading a fortress will kill their non-goblin squadmates, sparking loyalty cascade

2 votes
Bug #3169 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3169): Bone carvers suffer art defacement when somebody leaves the map with stuck-in masterpiece bolts

2 votes
Bug #524 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=524): Liquid glob material breath attacks come out solid

2 votes
Bug #1609 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1609): Immigrant dwarves' skills often don't match their job settings

0 votes
Bug #4856 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4856): Immortal Dwarf (... Yet unconcious) [or any other creature]



new

Bug #1451 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1451): Military equipment interferes with civilian equipment (picks/axes/crossbows/quivers)

Bug #3732 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3732): Butchering a corpse yields only 1 skin, regardless of size

Bug #874 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=874): Dwarves refuse to butcher some corpses (buzzards in particular)

Bug #5232 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5232): Streams/brooks/rivers getting turned stagnant by nearby pools/ponds

Bug #33 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=33): Bronze colossus, skeletal creatures, fleshballs, and others are impossible to kill

Bug #2780 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2780): Turtles went extinct on my map (applies to all aquatic vermin)


Bug #2922 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2922): Population Cap not working

Bug #5097 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5097):  Names overwriting text with TrueType

Bug #5595 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5595): Undead dwarf contracted were-chameleon curse (result in cloning any partial corpses which get infected)

Bug #4590 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4590): Elephant killed by three hoary marmots when elephant gives in to pain from nibbling, and then slowly bleeds to death over roughly 3 game years

Bug #5106 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5106): Slain bandits/companions respawn/duplicate in their original location

Bug #5611 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5611): Cities overwhelmingly build textile industry shops, almost never wood, stone, or metal-related shops

Bug #5263 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5263): Towns have no residents in spite of Legends listing population in thousands

Bug #5598 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5598): Town shops/cabinets contain human-sized clothes regardless of size of actual residents
Title: Re: The worst bug - inactive 31.25 poll
Post by: thvaz on March 13, 2012, 06:17:21 am
Bug 66 is fixed, Tax Collector is out of the game for now.
Title: Re: The worst bug - inactive 31.25 poll
Post by: Kogut on March 13, 2012, 06:37:33 am
Bug 66 is fixed, Tax Collector is out of the game for now.
OK, moved to fixed.
Title: Re: The worst bug - inactive 31.25 poll - collecting bugs for the next edition of
Post by: Kipi on March 13, 2012, 07:55:44 am
Wasn't the material mandate also fixed?

Quote from: Toady
The first cavern layer broke out again, and I put it back again. I turned off material-based mandates for the time being. Checked non-historical zombie kill records, river elevations again, sorted out an issue with how the underworld loads... down to 20 miscellaneous issues.
Title: Re: The worst bug - inactive 31.25 poll - collecting bugs for the next edition of
Post by: Kogut on March 13, 2012, 07:57:12 am
Wasn't the material mandate also fixed?

Quote from: Toady
The first cavern layer broke out again, and I put it back again. I turned off material-based mandates for the time being. Checked non-historical zombie kill records, river elevations again, sorted out an issue with how the underworld loads... down to 20 miscellaneous issues.

OK, moved to fixed
Title: Re: The worst bug - inactive 31.25 poll - collecting bugs for the next edition of
Post by: King Mir on March 13, 2012, 03:22:33 pm
Bug 1236 was on the devlog as being fixed for .02, fixed on the 16th.
Title: Re: The worst bug - inactive 31.25 poll - collecting bugs for the next edition of
Post by: Kogut on March 14, 2012, 08:42:20 am
0000231: Body parts from large creatures (bones, meat, leather, tusks, etc) slow workshops down due to clutter fixed! Now I really think that this poll is used in intended way (by Toady to fix important bugs)!
Title: Re: workshops and clutter bug fixed | old poll | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: HiEv on March 14, 2012, 09:12:56 pm
I know you probably know most of these already, but...

Listed twice:
bug #1376 - Presence of saltwater marsh causes mountain brooks/pools to become salty

Fixed:
bug #4025 - Every kobold starves to death at exactly year 4 in world gen
bug #1498 - Crystal glass items can't be made, CRYSTAL_GLASSABLE appears broken
bug #197 - No wagons in trader/merchant caravans
bug #1324 - buckets full of water were used to produce lye

Fixed in next release and marked as fixed:
bug #3453 - Baron/etc. cannot appoint baron-appointed nobles, such as the Dungeon Master
bug #231 - Body parts from large creatures (bones, meat, leather, tusks, etc) slow workshops down due to clutter
bug #4133 - Good/evil plants/trees don't appear (feather trees, glumprongs, sliver barbs, and sun berries)

Supposedly fixed in next release, but currently still marked as open:
bug #2481 - Dwarves will claim new clothes when theirs is worn (xClothesx) but not wear it
bug #3942 - Dwarves owning broken clothing. Clothes don't rot, ANNIHILATES FPS.
bug #535 - Equipping weapons/armor on military is erratic
bug #1451 - Military equipment interferes with civilian equipment (picks/axes/crossbows/quivers)

Supposedly/probably fixed in current/previous releases, but still marked as open:
bug #3708 - Ghost names that can't be engraved on a slab and nameless slab engravings
bug #3685 - Goblin squads invading a fortress will kill their non-goblin squadmates, sparking loyalty cascade

Probably not fixed:
impossible mandates (slade - bug #782, blue jay tooth etc - bug #1623) due to strange preferences (wagon wood - bug #3676 etc)
While #782 is listed as "fixed", some people are still seeing impossible mandates (see here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=102909.0)), and #1623 and #3676 are still listed as "open".  See also open bug #944 - Baron demands turtle shell door in dining room, and other demands of unattainable item/material combinations.
Title: Re: workshops and clutter bug fixed | old poll | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Footkerchief on March 14, 2012, 09:39:56 pm
Supposedly fixed in next release, but currently still marked as open:
[...]
bug #535 - Equipping weapons/armor on military is erratic
bug #1451 - Military equipment interferes with civilian equipment (picks/axes/crossbows/quivers)

These definitely haven't been fixed yet.  The problems there go far beyond clothing.

Supposedly/probably fixed in current/previous releases, but still marked as open:
bug #3708 - Ghost names that can't be engraved on a slab and nameless slab engravings
bug #3685 - Goblin squads invading a fortress will kill their non-goblin squadmates, sparking loyalty cascade

Un-slab-able ghosts have been spotted in 0.34.01+. (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3708#c21208)  Is there a source on the goblin loyalty cascades being fixed?
Title: Re: workshops and clutter bug fixed | old poll | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: HiEv on March 14, 2012, 09:54:44 pm
Supposedly fixed in next release, but currently still marked as open:
[...]
bug #535 - Equipping weapons/armor on military is erratic
bug #1451 - Military equipment interferes with civilian equipment (picks/axes/crossbows/quivers)

These definitely haven't been fixed yet.  The problems there go far beyond clothing.
I assumed that this is part of the clothing fixes he is currently working on.

Supposedly/probably fixed in current/previous releases, but still marked as open:
bug #3708 - Ghost names that can't be engraved on a slab and nameless slab engravings
bug #3685 - Goblin squads invading a fortress will kill their non-goblin squadmates, sparking loyalty cascade

Un-slab-able ghosts have been spotted in 0.34.01+. (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3708#c21208)  Is there a source on the goblin loyalty cascades being fixed?
Huh... I could have sworn I saw a bugfix for the ghost slabbing problem.  Also, I assumed that this loyalty cascade problem was probably fixed in v0.34.03 along with the other loyalty cascade problems fixed with bugs #5111 (Some player raised zombies are hostile to player and other friendly zombies), #5137 (Goblin in human towns will attack the player and make the townsfolk angry to the player), and #5319 (Vampire simultaneously chieftess of one entity and law-giver of another), though I could be wrong about that.
Title: Re: workshops and clutter bug fixed | old poll | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Footkerchief on March 14, 2012, 09:59:27 pm
Also, I assumed that this loyalty cascade problem was probably fixed in v0.34.03 along with the other loyalty cascade problems fixed with bugs #5111 (Some player raised zombies are hostile to player and other friendly zombies), #5137 (Goblin in human towns will attack the player and make the townsfolk angry to the player), and #5319 (Vampire simultaneously chieftess of one entity and law-giver of another), though I could be wrong about that.

It's possible, although the goblin loyalty cascades in Fort Mode are linked to baby-snatching, unlike those other bugs.  It sounds like Toady has to clean up those entity relationship bugs on a case-by-case basis.
Title: Re: workshops and clutter bug fixed | old poll | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: HiEv on March 14, 2012, 10:08:28 pm
It's possible, although the goblin loyalty cascades in Fort Mode are linked to baby-snatching, unlike those other bugs.  It sounds like Toady has to clean up those entity relationship bugs on a case-by-case basis.
I was hoping he did something at the entity creation level, where it would check to make sure that the creature isn't a simultaneously member of two mutually hostile civilizations when the creature was created.  Doing it at that point, again at any point when an individual's civ membership changes, and then a cleanup of existing figures if two civilizations become hostile, should both prevent loyalty cascades and remove the need to do all of those bugfixes on a case-by-case basis.
Title: Re: workshops and clutter bug fixed | old poll | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Kogut on March 15, 2012, 02:17:27 am
Listed twice:
bug #1376 - Presence of saltwater marsh causes mountain brooks/pools to become salty
Where? In http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=94802.msg3089089#msg3089089 it is listed only once.
Title: Re: workshops and clutter bug fixed | old poll | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: bombzero on March 15, 2012, 02:20:37 am
So are you just gonna start a new 'worst bug' poll after this run of bugfixes is done and the new bugs are found out?
Title: Re: workshops and clutter bug fixed | old poll | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Kogut on March 15, 2012, 02:26:49 am
So are you just gonna start a new 'worst bug' poll after this run of bugfixes is done and the new bugs are found out?
Yes, it is a part of my plan.
Title: Re: workshops and clutter bug fixed | old poll | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: bombzero on March 15, 2012, 02:30:21 am
Cool, im sure that Toady probably appreciates you doing this, as he certainly seems to be using it.
Title: Re: workshops and clutter bug fixed | old poll | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: HiEv on March 15, 2012, 11:00:39 am
Listed twice:
bug #1376 - Presence of saltwater marsh causes mountain brooks/pools to become salty
Where? In http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=94802.msg3089089#msg3089089 it is listed only once.
In the original poll it's both the 18th and the last item.

Also, this item is now marked as fixed for the next release:
bug #2481 - Dwarves will claim new clothes when theirs is worn (xClothesx) but not wear it
Title: Re: workshops and clutter bug fixed | old poll | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Kogut on March 15, 2012, 05:30:42 pm
Listed twice:
bug #1376 - Presence of saltwater marsh causes mountain brooks/pools to become salty
Where? In http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=94802.msg3089089#msg3089089 it is listed only once.
In the original poll it's both the 18th and the last item.

Also, this item is now marked as fixed for the next release:
bug #2481 - Dwarves will claim new clothes when theirs is worn (xClothesx) but not wear it

Fixed, updated. Now 2 top unfixed bugs are:

46 votes
bug #535 - Equipping weapons/armor on military is erratic

30 votes
bug #1582 - Injured dwarf in bed in stocked hospital ignored by idle doctors

full list on old post: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=94802.msg3089089#msg3089089
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: thvaz on March 15, 2012, 05:39:57 pm
bug #3942 is not marked as fixed in the bug tracker yet, but I think if he keeps working on clothing bug #535 might be the next to be fixed.
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Kogut on March 15, 2012, 05:41:17 pm
bug #3942 is not marked as fixed in the bug tracker yet, but I think if he keeps working on clothing bug #535 might be the next to be fixed.
Yeah, I added note "(not marked as fixed, but probably fixed or hidden as result of fixing #2481)". In the worst case producing new clothes will be a workaround.
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Sphalerite on March 15, 2012, 07:21:17 pm
While it isn't a bug as such, and isn't on the tracker, it really bothers me that all creatures give the same amount of leather when butcher.  A dog and a whale both yield a single piece of leather after butchery and tanning.  I have a hack in place on my custom mods that fixes this, but it's a crude hack and would be better fixed in DF somehow.
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Kogut on March 15, 2012, 07:43:09 pm
While it isn't a bug as such, and isn't on the tracker, it really bothers me that all creatures give the same amount of leather when butcher.  A dog and a whale both yield a single piece of leather after butchery and tanning.  I have a hack in place on my custom mods that fixes this, but it's a crude hack and would be better fixed in DF somehow.
This one should probably go to eternal suggestion voting (AFAIK almost completely ignored), as it is not a bug.
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: HiEv on March 16, 2012, 01:35:32 pm
While it isn't a bug as such, and isn't on the tracker, it really bothers me that all creatures give the same amount of leather when butcher.  A dog and a whale both yield a single piece of leather after butchery and tanning.  I have a hack in place on my custom mods that fixes this, but it's a crude hack and would be better fixed in DF somehow.
Bug #3732 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3732): Butchering a corpse yields only 1 skin, regardless of size

Similarly:
Bug #808 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=808): Processing Raw Turtles only makes one shell per stack, and other stack size issues
Bug #4593 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4593): shearing sometimes produces stack of 1 wool, which cannot be used
Bug #4616 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4616): Spinning stacks of wool only produces a single yarn thread
(and several other items also listed as children of bug #808)

Basically a total mismatch between the amount of material coming in and what is made from that material.
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Kogut on March 16, 2012, 02:49:39 pm
Bug #3732 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3732): Butchering a corpse yields only 1 skin, regardless of size

Added to the list (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=94802.msg3089089#msg3089089).
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Buttery_Mess on March 16, 2012, 08:56:06 pm
The trouble is, when you think about it logically, the input/output ratio for materials is pretty messed up all over the show. I mean it takes the same amount of logs to make a table as it takes to make a wooden ring, doesn't it? Seems like a fairly major overhaul of the item reactions would be needed all over to get it working the way it seems it should.

It would be nice for example if Toady modified the charcoal production/use balance, especially with regards to pottery. I mean, you can't make any more constructions with an earthenware brick as you can with a piece of wood, for example; the pottery industry is cool, but totally pointless. This can be fixed with mods easily enough but it feels like something that should be looked at in vanilla.

We don't really have a thread for game balance issues that aren't bugs, though. When you think about it, they're about as important to playability as bugs but entirely subjective.

Don't brooks get saltified by flowing through rock salt bedrock? I've seen forts with saltwater brooks in mountains of rock salt before, I'm sure.
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 16, 2012, 10:12:49 pm
The trouble is, when you think about it logically, the input/output ratio for materials is pretty messed up all over the show. I mean it takes the same amount of logs to make a table as it takes to make a wooden ring, doesn't it? Seems like a fairly major overhaul of the item reactions would be needed all over to get it working the way it seems it should.

It would be nice for example if Toady modified the charcoal production/use balance, especially with regards to pottery. I mean, you can't make any more constructions with an earthenware brick as you can with a piece of wood, for example; the pottery industry is cool, but totally pointless. This can be fixed with mods easily enough but it feels like something that should be looked at in vanilla.

Problem with charcoal use balance is that magma forges magma-dump that balance.  Fire clay + magma kiln = free infinite water-tight materials for things like pots without needing wood at all. 

As for feature requests, that's what Suggestions are for, but yeah, it's much, much harder to get Toady to get a feature in than a bugfix.  Still, if you want to talk about the problems with a single log making a whole table or just a single earring - Volume and Mass (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61215.msg1390985#msg1390985) would be the right place to talk about that.
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: drivec on March 19, 2012, 03:52:59 am
how about that stagnant water bug
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: bombzero on March 19, 2012, 03:57:29 am
how about that stagnant water bug

yes... this one is getting quite old, i havn't had a fresh water river in quite some time.
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Immacolata on March 19, 2012, 04:50:03 am
how about that stagnant water bug

yes... this one is getting quite old, i havn't had a fresh water river in quite some time.
Stagnant water bug getting quite old, eh? Trying to be funny I see!

I hope small carcass butchering gets sorted out like #874 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=874). Some wild animals can't be butchered when shot by a hunter, and you'd kind of wish your hunter would only hunt butcherable animals. But their tame equivalents can. However, its completely opaque to the player what mechanism is there, and you end up thinking the butcher's shop is bugged.
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Kogut on March 19, 2012, 07:03:55 am
how about that stagnant water bug

yes... this one is getting quite old, i havn't had a fresh water river in quite some time.
Stagnant water bug getting quite old, eh? Trying to be funny I see!

I hope small carcass butchering gets sorted out like #874 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=874). Some wild animals can't be butchered when shot by a hunter, and you'd kind of wish your hunter would only hunt butcherable animals. But their tame equivalents can. However, its completely opaque to the player what mechanism is there, and you end up thinking the butcher's shop is bugged.

Bug #874 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=874): Dwarves refuse to butcher some corpses (buzzards in particular), #33 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=33): Bronze colossus, skeletal creatures, fleshballs, and others are impossible to kill and #5232 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5232): Streams/brooks/rivers getting turned stagnant by nearby pools/ponds added to the list (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=94802.msg3089089#msg3089089).

bug #3942 - Dwarves owning broken clothing. Clothes don't rot, ANNIHILATES FPS is now marked as fixed on bugtracker.
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Manveru Taurënér on March 19, 2012, 07:51:40 am
I'd vote to have #2780 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2780) added, fish stocks never regenerating and going extinct after prolonged play. Really annoying to have all my fisherdwarves turn useless and not being able to rely on fishing for food anymore, which I usually rely quite heavily on :>
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Naryar on March 19, 2012, 09:05:55 am
Why is bug #4025 still on there ?
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Kogut on March 19, 2012, 10:16:25 am
I'd vote to have #2780 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2780) added, fish stocks never regenerating and going extinct after prolonged play. Really annoying to have all my fisherdwarves turn useless and not being able to rely on fishing for food anymore, which I usually rely quite heavily on :>

OK, added to the list (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=94802.msg3089089#msg3089089).

Why is bug #4025 still on there ?

Where? In archival poll results fixed section of current list (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=94802.msg3089089#msg3089089)?

EDIT: I added also famous "Population Cap not working"
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: NTJedi on March 19, 2012, 05:48:05 pm
I feel these two are the most important since combat can determine whether a fort dies:

bug #4552 - Siegers waiting by bodies of dead leaders  {Most Important}

bug #2712 - weapons, especially whips, cut through steel armor like butterbug   {2nd Most Important}



Is this where we vote or does another location exist?
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: quintilius on March 19, 2012, 07:49:09 pm
well, 535 could get you killed while your idiots run back and forth looking for armor - but so long as you're careful not to put miners or woodcutters into the military you can get them kitted out and they wont usually change much...
1582 is very annoying - though i've seen people post 'cage and release in hospital' solutions (innovative, but absurd) - it's cost me dwarves in the past (esp when the injured party is a diagnostician)
296 is bad, but only really hurts if we're talking 'beware his deadly blood' scenarios - and you can use dfhack to clean things if you're really annoyed
i thought 4230 was fixed - i havent had to declare soap making through the manager in a long time
for me though, 3708 is the killer. There's no workaround and it's a potential fort destroyer. I've lost a half dozen otherwise perfectly fine forts to rampaging dead caravan guard ghosts - now when i see a dead guard i just abandon.  Until toady fixes this one the game is just a frustration timebomb waiting to happen.  The only really truly challenging and fun fort i've had was one where my dwarven civ died - so there were no migrants, no caravans, and no slabs required.  It lasted 19 years.
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Musaab on March 20, 2012, 12:06:12 pm
This one is huge for me:

Bug #5097:  Names overwriting text with TrueType


http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5097 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5097)
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Kogut on March 20, 2012, 12:37:36 pm
This one is huge for me:

Bug #5097:  Names overwriting text with TrueType


http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5097 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5097)

Added to http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=94802.msg3089089#msg3089089
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 20, 2012, 01:02:59 pm
If we're adding bugs...

New towns produce extremely limited quantities of wood, stone, and metal, resulting in almost all shops being clothing shops, and essentially no armor or weapons or even furniture shops, and those that do exist having no equipment (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5611).

Old shops and houses are never reclaimed - any worldgen with enough history has almost the entire city consist of "Abandoned Shop"s even though the population is in the thousands - populations live on the roof of the castle, instead (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5263).

Clothing not worn by characters is always made for SIZE 70,000 creatures, meaning that no goods in shops are sized for anything but humans, even when they are dwarves or goblins or any sort of modded creature, and even if you mod human-sized creatures entirely out of the game (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5598).

There's also one about popluation pool characters respawning - so if you clear out a dungeon, the bandit leader you killed will stay dead, but all the minions respawn each time you fast travel or sleep.  Likewise, if you murder an entire town (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104868.msg3105522#msg3105522), the peasants just respawn if you step away from town for a little while. 



Here we go, mantis is back up...
#5106 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5106) is the bug with cloning worldgen population pool characters.  It also results in infinite cloned recruitable companions if they are not historical, incidentally. 

I'd also like to put up an oldie of mine - the pain problems.  4590 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4590) - Elephant killed by three hoary marmots when elephant gives in to pain from nibbling, and then slowly bleeds to death over roughly 3 game years. 
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Greendogo on March 20, 2012, 11:16:21 pm
This is my pick for new bug of the year:
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5595 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5595)

In a terrifying biome, a were-creature comes and starts a cycle of infecting undead with lycanthropy, and when they are killed and torn to pieces, the pieces resurrect and heal completely.  This creates clones of the were-zombies which eventually also get smashed in combat, creating more clones.
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: Kogut on March 21, 2012, 02:21:16 am
This is my pick for new bug of the year:
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5595 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5595)

In a terrifying biome, a were-creature comes and starts a cycle of infecting undead with lycanthropy, and when they are killed and torn to pieces, the pieces resurrect and heal completely.  This creates clones of the were-zombies which eventually also get smashed in combat, creating more clones.

Added.

If we're adding bugs...

New towns produce extremely limited quantities of wood, stone, and metal, resulting in almost all shops being clothing shops, and essentially no armor or weapons or even furniture shops, and those that do exist having no equipment (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5611).

Old shops and houses are never reclaimed - any worldgen with enough history has almost the entire city consist of "Abandoned Shop"s even though the population is in the thousands - populations live on the roof of the castle, instead (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5263).

Clothing not worn by characters is always made for SIZE 70,000 creatures, meaning that no goods in shops are sized for anything but humans, even when they are dwarves or goblins or any sort of modded creature, and even if you mod human-sized creatures entirely out of the game (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5598).

There's also one about popluation pool characters respawning - so if you clear out a dungeon, the bandit leader you killed will stay dead, but all the minions respawn each time you fast travel or sleep.  Likewise, if you murder an entire town (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104868.msg3105522#msg3105522), the peasants just respawn if you step away from town for a little while. 



Here we go, mantis is back up...
#5106 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5106) is the bug with cloning worldgen population pool characters.  It also results in infinite cloned recruitable companions if they are not historical, incidentally. 

I'd also like to put up an oldie of mine - the pain problems.  4590 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4590) - Elephant killed by three hoary marmots when elephant gives in to pain from nibbling, and then slowly bleeds to death over roughly 3 game years. 
Added to the www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=94802.msg3089089#msg3089089

I am stopping adding new bugs, as now we have 4 more bugs than on previous list. Thanks for submissions!
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | collecting bugs for the next poll
Post by: NTJedi on March 21, 2012, 06:55:07 pm
I am stopping adding new bugs, as now we have 4 more bugs than on previous list. Thanks for submissions!
Agreed... there's a difference between adding your biggest pain point bug and just spamming this thread with four or five random bugs.
Title: Re: clothes fixed! | old poll results | poll restarts with the next version |344/607
Post by: Kogut on March 23, 2012, 06:57:54 am
New poll: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=105372.0