Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: For those who also think Scrum is awful  (Read 1813 times)

Bauglir

  • Bay Watcher
  • Let us make Good
    • View Profile
Re: For those who also think Scrum is awful
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2016, 10:17:35 am »

They're software development paradigms. Scrum seems to be a subset of Agile development with an emphasis on meetings to report progress, and less emphasis on reams of written documentation (which seems to be for the purpose of making things go faster in a crisis). The idea is to accept that your software specifications are going to change, and therefore break down everything into small subproblems that can be tested, revisited, and most critically submitted to your supervisor individually so that they can make the most inane possible critiques and requests. The process assumes a regular flow of "completed" things upward so that supervisors always have something to do to make them feel valuable, which in turn means your actual developers have to get X number of things done every week (regardless of how challenging any of them happen to be, leading to significant overtime). Moreover, in order to ensure all these little bits work together (and to prove you're doing your work), you need to be constantly documenting things (instead of making things) for developers on other teams in the same project, since one of the core principles is to have small teams of developers with narrow goals.

Or at least, that's my understanding of it. Basically, it's totally administrator-focused, with the expectation that the engineers will just make things work. You're expected to constantly prove that you're getting shit done, either by documenting it or explaining it in a meeting, which decreases productivity directly and through morale hits. And while there are cases where those costs are worthwhile, the arguments for making it the status quo rely on ignoring those costs and/or attacking a strawman (the "waterfall" model, which has some similar problems, but is fundamentally based on the idea that specifications will be determined in advance).
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 10:19:28 am by Bauglir »
Logged
In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

nenjin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Inscrubtable Exhortations of the Soul
    • View Profile
Re: For those who also think Scrum is awful
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2016, 10:18:52 am »

They're styles of development, describing how software engineers work on projects. Scrum is an organized two week "sprint" where people grab projects out of the list and try to get them done, doing "iterations." There are "Scrum Masters" who oversee and organize the work, people are rated on their output, etc....

Agile refers to a loosey-goosey way of doing things as far as planning and execution. The idea is to be responsive to customer needs and new developments. So companies can pretty radically shift people and resources around in a short period to meet changing goals. Management may say that one month mobile development gets all the priority, and next month may shift quickly to something else in response to something that's happening. Agile can make you look good to the customer....but it also sets the expectation that you'll always do this. It's also fairly chaotic for employees, who both don't know what they'll be doing when they come in sometimes, or aren't given the time to really button up and polish what they're doing because they've been pulled into a new task.

-ninja'd-
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 10:20:38 am by nenjin »
Logged
Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

RedKing

  • Bay Watcher
  • hoo hoo motherfucker
    • View Profile
Re: For those who also think Scrum is awful
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2016, 10:55:55 am »

And it's not just software development. There's Agile and Scrum project management too. I'm doing an agile project right now (the one that has me hating Holland with the fire of a thousand hells right now).

What I've found is that they're frequently used to cover up for an appalling lack of planning at the strategic/programmatic level. Like if you were building a rocket and 80% of the way through somebody noticed there was no engine. "Oh shit, get an agile project to design and build those! We have a launch scheduled in two months!"

And then the night before launch, they figure out the engines were built in metric and the rest of the rocket in Imperial. "Oh shit, let's get a Scrum going and design an adapter and recode all the control software to handle the conversion".

Which is what these methods are designed for, but emergencies shouldn't happen if you have proper high-level planning.

To compound the problem, you have execs who go "Wow, we designed and built a rocket engine in two months, and it normally takes our competitors five years! Agile/Scrum is awesome! Let's use that for everything!"

And in a perfect world, that guy would be the first passenger when the rocket falls apart.
Logged

Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

nenjin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Inscrubtable Exhortations of the Soul
    • View Profile
Re: For those who also think Scrum is awful
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2016, 11:10:42 am »

I ran that article by my lead developer and he was less than impressed. That the author is stating general problems in development shops and pinning them on agile/scrum, when the real thing he's angry about is mismanagement.
Logged
Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Grimlocke

  • Bay Watcher
  • *kobold noises*
    • View Profile
Re: For those who also think Scrum is awful
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2016, 01:43:40 am »

The guy who was giving a scrum workshop at my previous job claimed that for him the thing led to less overtime and stress, the logic there being that because they can dice up a big thing into small bits with a weighted 'cost', it was easier to set a daily quota for themselves that they could meet or exceed.

This does assume that management gives you a reasonable quota to begin with.

Which is clearly not what my countrymen were doing with RedKing's misadventure. No project management philosophy will save you from stupidity, especially not when applied in a hasty slap-dash effort only after things have already gone down the crapper.

Blaming that all on scrum seems a bit misplaced. No, stupid managers should deserve full credit for their stupid and get to sit on the cannons during test firing that they ordered to be made in half the time, from suspiciously cheap iron. But that's rarely the way things go so better wear some sturdy pants for release day  :P

That all said I think scrum could work for smaller teams, even though all the overhead from meetings and documentation can be a pain. I don't think it should ever be used to save time, but rather save headaches on long-term projects with small-ish teams.
Logged
I make Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods. Its got poleaxes, sturdy joints and bloomeries. Now compatible with DF Revised!

IWishIWereSarah

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: For those who also think Scrum is awful
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2016, 02:35:19 pm »

Err, guys ...
It sounds like you have problems with shitty managers, not with the methods they use.
Agile methods usually mean engineers work more closely with their project designers and managers than with Plan-driven methods, so it will accentuate the relations in the (global) team.

I've worked in two companies with Scrum-inspired methods, and there are two points that I've seen change how things go :
 - You want "Backlog Refinement" meetings. Programmers and Product Owner have to talk about the User Stories, so that you see what you are working on, on a longer term, and make sure everyone is on the same page.
 - small teams are good. I've been nearly solo dev (sharing a dev with another project because of his speciality), and in teams of up to 5. I've seen teams of 10-12. And it often feels faster in a team half the size, with a comparable quality.

I currently work in a small team (3 devs), and I am nearly happy to go to work :D
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]