Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 23

Author Topic: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.44.05) - Revision 6c (+patch)  (Read 44276 times)

Grimlocke

  • Bay Watcher
  • *kobold noises*
    • View Profile

Presenterating:

Code: [Select]
╔═╗ ╔╗  ╦ ╔╦╗ ╦   ╔═╗ ╔═╗ ║╔═ ╔═╗ ╗ ╔═╗   ╗ ╔ ╦ ╔═╗ ╔╦╗ ╔═╗ ╔╗ ║ ║    ╔╗   ╔╗  ╔═╗ ╔═╗ ╦   ╦ ╔═╗ ╔╦╗   ╔╦╗ ╔═╗   ║ ╔═╗
║╠╗ ╠╩╗ ║ ║║║ ║   ║ ║ ║   ╠╩╗ ╠╣    ╚═╗   ╠═╣ ║ ╚═╗  ║  ║ ║ ╠╩╗╚═╣   ╔╩╣   ╠╩╗ ╠╣  ╠═╣ ║   ║ ╚═╗ ║║║   ║║║ ║ ║ ╔═╣ ╚═╗
╚═╝ ║ ║ ╩ ║╩║ ╚═╝ ╚═╝ ╚═╝ ║ ║ ╚═╝   ╚═╝   ╝ ╚ ╩ ╚═╝  ║  ╚═╝ ║ ║ ═╝   ╚═╬   ║ ║ ╚═╝ ║ ║ ╚═╝ ╩ ╚═╝ ║╩║   ║╩║ ╚═╝ ╚═╝ ╚═╝
Revision 6c

 - Replaces the weapons and armor with historically accurate late 14th, early 15th ones from the European continent.
 - Alters combat to be both more realistic and interesting.
 - Adds historic ferro-metallurgy


Main features:
70 weapons - Numerous weapons added for each weapon skill, two-handed versions for all weapon safe daggers and spears.
33 armor pieces - Including padded armor and cuir bouille (boiled leather) armor.
11 ammo types - Various contact areas, most types are just for 'flavour'.
5 shields - Not much I can do with these yet, but some other types added for flavour if nothing else.
Added a number of civilian weapons - By making them tools with various uses civilians now carry daggers and cudgels.
Added and modified trap components - Tridents, forks, giant hammers and more.

Rebalanced weapons - Reduced massive contact areas, regulated the armor penetration to be more realistic and gave weapons a realistic weight.
Rebalanced armor and clothing - Armor thickness is now more sensible, armor can be worn over other armor only where physically possible, and historically accurate.
Altered metals - High-impact edged attacks can now break bones even when they fail to cut the armor, lower edge values increase momentum cost for edged attacks.
Rebalanced unarmed combat - Contact area of all unarmed attacks in the game increased, lowered bone density, and reduced velocity of entity creature attacks.
Added adrenaline simulation - An interaction gives creatures in combat a substantial boost in willpower and endurance. Fights are longer and less RNG-dependant.
Added collarbones - An internal limb holding upper body and arms together. Breakable, realistic, and enables some other mod features.

Moved flails to the whip skill - And made whips and scourges tool instead of weapons.
Moved two-handed polearms to the pike skill - Forcing the silly entity equipment system to not use a shield along with them.
Removed armor pants - Moved leg protection to foot-worn armor, lower body protection was already on upper body armor.
Changed leather armor to boiled leather armor - This is not regular tanned leather, but a hard, almost plastic-like material. Can be worn as addition to mail armor, or by itself if your desperate.


Latest Version Download here!

Older versions:
Revision 6b (43.05)
Revision 5b
Revision 4c
Revision 3b
Weapons file with fixed secondary attacks, goes with 3c
Revision 2
Initial release version


How-to-use
- Copy the contents of '1 - Arms and Armor' to /raw/objects
   Overwrite all, the base mod is ready for use.

 - For the metallurgy mod, copy the contents of '2 - Metallurgy' to /raw/objects as well.
   Be sure not to do it in reverse order, that would make a mess of things.
   I do not know what happens when you use only the metallurgy parts. Some custom re-fitting would likely be needed, but I won't be doing that.

 - For compatibility with Dwarf Fortress Revised (version 1.3.1) install that mod as well, and copy in the contents of the 3rd folder, in that specific order.

 - The 4th folder contains a file with all the entity tags for this mod. Useful if you want to integrate this mod with other mods.

 - The 5th folder contains some legacy items booted from the main version of the mod, and will contain and miscellaneous nonsense I might add in the future.

Compatibility notes for integration with other mods by Amostubal:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=146737.msg7617631#msg7617631


Changelog:
Patch for non-metallurgy steelmaking
- Entity reaction tokens for steelmaking in the non-metallurgy version went missing. Added them back in, the reactions should show up in existing games. This patch is not required for the metallurgy version.

Revision 6c changes: various bugfixes and 44.02 compatibility
- Updates the mod to 44.02.
 - Added descriptions to metallurgy reactions.
 - Added an alternative reaction for glass and charcoal powder that uses a jub instead of a bag.
 - Fixes: Meteoric iron production, mysterious iron boulders, various language errors and various small adjustments to equipment (such as reduced greatsword sizes).

Spoiler: Older changes (click to show/hide)


Accreditations and misc notes:
- Compatibility for the 42.06 creature variation file and the Modest bodies mod gracefully provided by Taffer
 - Made possible with glorious Science committed by Urist da Vincy and many others
 - Helped along by various members of the community that pointed out errors and potential improvements.
 - Any criticism or comment, be it positive, negative or neither, is very much appreciated!
 - Anyone is free to use all or parts of this mod in their own projects, or to fork this project if they think I'm making a mess of things! Crediting me is optional, though appreciated.

This mod is (partially or entirely) included in:
 - A more mundane mod
 - Legendary Dwarf Fortress
 - Asin's Goblinoids (and Orcs) Mod
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 05:46:46 pm by Grimlocke »
Logged
I make Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods. Its got poleaxes, sturdy joints and bloomeries. Now compatible with DF Revised!

Ladygolem

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2014, 08:19:30 pm »

Looks really interesting! Question: what was the motivation for making whips, scourges, etc. tools?

Grimlocke

  • Bay Watcher
  • *kobold noises*
    • View Profile
Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2014, 08:57:12 am »

It's purely to get the game to stop placing them on soldiers. Carrying a whip to a battlefield would be an immensely silly thing to do, especially after I adjusted their rather weird armor penetrating behaviour.

I also tried to have the game use actual leather for them but [LEATHER] did not work. I'm still trying to figure out if wool whips are better than steel whips.
Logged
I make Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods. Its got poleaxes, sturdy joints and bloomeries. Now compatible with DF Revised!

Grimlocke

  • Bay Watcher
  • *kobold noises*
    • View Profile
Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2015, 09:33:34 pm »

Updated! See above.
Logged
I make Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods. Its got poleaxes, sturdy joints and bloomeries. Now compatible with DF Revised!

Urist Tilaturist

  • Bay Watcher
  • The most dwarven name possible.
    • View Profile
Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2015, 06:28:46 am »

I guess that the OP steel whips of normal DF are supposed to be flails and are just implemented wrong. Since this mod adds flails, steel whips are unnecessary.
Logged
On the item is an image of a dwarf and an elephant. The elephant is striking down the dwarf.

For old times' sake.

Dynastia

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2015, 06:46:45 pm »

Lastly there are some names I can't figure out. What is a general term for someone using a two-handed polearm?

Guisarmier is the modern term most people use, but the contemporary English referred to all polearms as 'staves' and their wielders as 'stavesmen'.

Or for a viking-style sword without using any time/place/people names?

You could call it an arming sword and then call the more classical knightly-style arming sword a 'cruciform sword', if you were so inclined. Or maybe early arming sword vs modern arming sword. Personally, I'd call it a dwarven sword.

I'm also not too sure about 'flailman', but 'flailer' is worse for certain.

I'd go with 'flailsman'.
Logged

Grimlocke

  • Bay Watcher
  • *kobold noises*
    • View Profile
Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2015, 09:42:36 pm »

Thanks! Those actually work rather well!

'Stavesman' and 'flailsman' also have the benefit of the name being self-explanatory.

'Cruciform sword' from what I have read mostly refers to the larger swords with 2-handed grips, which I already used other names for (bastard sword, longsword and two-handed sword, in order of size).

Early/modern arming sword works I suppose. I considered calling some weapons after their host civilisation, but that would add the problem of it not being apparent just what shape the sword has just from 'dwarven sword' or 'goblin axe'. It would be really nice to have ingame descriptions of weapons and other items, beside 'this is a steel sword, it is studded with well made groundhog bone'

Anyhow, the next version of this mod will alter civilisation creatures. It will be easy to include the new profession names.
Logged
I make Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods. Its got poleaxes, sturdy joints and bloomeries. Now compatible with DF Revised!

Dynastia

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2015, 07:01:20 am »

No, cruciform swords included any sword defined by their crucifix-like shape ; the flat crossbar that serves as a hilt/handguard. There were certainly cruciform longswords, and at some point that might have even been the norm in places like Germany and Switzerland but for the most part your typical cruciform sword was a one-handed arming sword, pretty much directly evolved from the spatha and viking sword.

It's a tricky thing to get the names both accurate and looking nice for stuff like viking swords and scythian axes, etc., unless you're making direct cultural analogues (dwarves = vikings or dwarves = romans, etc.), but personally I think early/modern arming swords might be your best option. It's clunky, but so is anything else I can think of.
Logged

Urist Tilaturist

  • Bay Watcher
  • The most dwarven name possible.
    • View Profile
Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2015, 01:00:28 pm »

Mythical mining dwarves came from Norse mythology, but they are not real Vikings and their crafts should not be referred to as such.
Logged
On the item is an image of a dwarf and an elephant. The elephant is striking down the dwarf.

For old times' sake.

Grimlocke

  • Bay Watcher
  • *kobold noises*
    • View Profile
Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2015, 12:35:36 pm »

No, cruciform swords included any sword defined by their crucifix-like shape ; the flat crossbar that serves as a hilt/handguard. There were certainly cruciform longswords, and at some point that might have even been the norm in places like Germany and Switzerland but for the most part your typical cruciform sword was a one-handed arming sword, pretty much directly evolved from the spatha and viking sword.

It's a tricky thing to get the names both accurate and looking nice for stuff like viking swords and scythian axes, etc., unless you're making direct cultural analogues (dwarves = vikings or dwarves = romans, etc.), but personally I think early/modern arming swords might be your best option. It's clunky, but so is anything else I can think of.

On cruciform swords: I suppose your correct, though that does leave the name being a lot more encompassing than I would like.

And yes the names have proven to be one of the harder parts of getting this kind of mod right. Most archaeological finds are named after the place they were found, or by the people that supposedly used them, neither of which I can use here and the more general names are often too ambiguous, obscure or localized. There are for instance about 6 weapons in this mod that could be called just 'pollaxe', since this name refers to a type of construction and use rather than any specific configuration.

It would be pretty nice if I could hack in item descriptions for weapons. May have to look into that.
Logged
I make Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods. Its got poleaxes, sturdy joints and bloomeries. Now compatible with DF Revised!

Dynastia

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2015, 12:22:23 pm »

It might be an idea to just pick a certain historical location and specific timeframe for each entity and then remove all other weapons as redundant ; or maybe even split them up into multiple mini-mods, so people can choose whether they want their dwarves using 14th century franch or 8th century viking equipment, etc. That would mostly solve the problem of having 6 different poleaxes. To be honest it's probably a good idea to merge any weapons that have similar form and function into a more generalised title, and you'd still have a boatloads of improvement over vanilla DF, historically speaking.

Oh, just wanted to ask, are you going to restrict elven weapons to ones that would work fairly well if made of wood (spears, clubs, flails, etc.) and take away their silly wooden longswords? I'd like that.
Logged

Urist Tilaturist

  • Bay Watcher
  • The most dwarven name possible.
    • View Profile
Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2015, 12:38:13 pm »

If elves used obsidian, then they could make macuahuitl. Otherwise, wooden swords should be out, except for bludgeoning.
Logged
On the item is an image of a dwarf and an elephant. The elephant is striking down the dwarf.

For old times' sake.

Grimlocke

  • Bay Watcher
  • *kobold noises*
    • View Profile
Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2015, 04:52:10 pm »

Already changed the elven weapons, they now use a quarterstaff, club and threshing flail. I don't actually know how much sense wooden spears make, or whether it would do anything other than blunt damage.

I tried to get elves to use flint and obsidian some time ago but that didn't work out so well. I might take another swing at that some time in the future, though I'm not sure about shoe-horning in weapons from a completely different continent into medieval Europe. Then again, tree-hugging cannibal Elves don't make any sense there either... eh ill see.

And yes I did think of splitting the mod into various time/place variations, the entity file I have in there now already has east-European weapons split off from some of the west-European, though I have been having somewhat of a harder time finding accurate information about the later east-European weapons and armor.

I am not entirely satisfied about the approach, if only because equating the Rus to Goblins does not do the Rus much justice... but it's certainly better than every civ having a weird soup of weapons and armor from all over the place (and time).

Splitting up the mod in multiple files would be nice once it gets any bigger, though it could get.. complicated what with every imaginable era and place having at least some overlap with others. Mail, spears and bows for instance are all but ubiquitous from the Romans to the end of the middle ages. I suppose I could make a basic set of weapons and then split off the more specific ones into separate files? Better make an excel sheet at that rate though.

Having a dark age mod would be pretty neat though. It's a fascinating era, rather under-appreciated in the media if you ask me.
Logged
I make Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods. Its got poleaxes, sturdy joints and bloomeries. Now compatible with DF Revised!

Urist Tilaturist

  • Bay Watcher
  • The most dwarven name possible.
    • View Profile
Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2015, 06:42:06 pm »

Wooden stakes can be very sharp and leave horrible splintered wounds. Punji sticks work on similar principles. Where they fail is in piercing armour and not breaking apart with repeated use.

Who said DF was mediaeval Europe? Toady referenced goblins being influenced by the Assyrians once. Elves seem like some sort of Amazonian or New Guinean savage tribe who have strange ways of getting wood without harming trees or resorting to cheap penis jokes.

Since the "weapon balance mod" has died down and achieved little, could historically appropriate raws changes like removing most of the head muscle and fat fit in this mod? If the aim is to recreate historical combat, that is not possible without some raws changes (unarmed attacks are still too strong with the current version of the mod).
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 06:45:06 pm by Urist Tilaturist »
Logged
On the item is an image of a dwarf and an elephant. The elephant is striking down the dwarf.

For old times' sake.

Grimlocke

  • Bay Watcher
  • *kobold noises*
    • View Profile
Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2015, 11:56:22 pm »

I said it was set in medieval Europe :)

I know DF canon is kind of... ambiguous about its exact setting, but all the weapons and attire are basically copies from D&D, which in turn based its weapon set on medieval Europe. I'm also no big fan of games and other media throwing together things from cultures from completely different times and places, like the obligatory katana that is in every game with melee weapons ever. It just looks... weird and out of place in settings which is nowhere near Japan. Katanas don't even make sense in the technical aspect either when places alongside plate armor and morningstarts. The shape of a katana stems from its laminated construction, which in turn is a result from the lack of good quality iron ore in the Japanese archipelago. Plate armor suggests a thriving steel working industry and a plenty of material to work with.

...

/rant

Aaanyhow, I do realize the Elves are going to fail at making any sense one way or another. At some point I will either give them a selection of neolithic weapons or outfit them as woodland brigands with metal weapons. For now giving them less silly wooden sticks will have to do, wooden spears will be added in the next version of this mod.

As for the general combat balance stuff: I currently have modified unarmed combat (including animal bites), an adrenaline simulation interaction that gives creatures a ton of willpower and some endurance as long as combat lasts, and adding the head muscle fix it pretty trivial. I'm already modifying the entity creatures anyway.

It's all gotten a bit slow to progress though as some modifications I made in the metal raws which largely fixed armored, armed combat had the nasty side-effect of requiring me to separately rebalance and test every weapon (rather than the last version where I had at least a rough guideline).

...

Elves seem like some sort of Amazonian or New Guinean savage tribe who have strange ways of getting wood without harming trees or resorting to cheap penis jokes.

 :P
Logged
I make Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods. Its got poleaxes, sturdy joints and bloomeries. Now compatible with DF Revised!
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 23