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Author Topic: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.44.12) - Revision 7: Guns & Fashion  (Read 48260 times)

Grimlocke

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Guns guns guns! Also fancy clothes and item descriptions. Fixed the arty, get em while they're fresh.
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Revision 7b

 - Replaces the weapons, armor and clothing with historically accurate ones from 15th century Europe.
 - Alters combat to be both more realistic and interesting.
 - Adds (optional) historic ferro-metallurgy
 - Adds guns and artillery now!


Main features: (green stuff is new stuff)
Tons of weapons! - Numerous weapons added for each weapon skill, two-handed versions for all weapon categories safe daggers
Tons of armor! - Including padded armor and cuir bouille (boiled leather) armor.
Period accurate gunpowder weapons! - That's right, working, balanced and interesting gunpowder weapons. Arquebusses and Handgonnes, as well as...
Fixed artillery! - Bombards, organ guns and more can be installed as building and fired at great distance & potential harm.
Throwing weapons - War darts equipped along with a spear can be hurled at the enemy, they rarely break and hold up well in melee
More shields - Shields of various sizes, each size up giving more protection but also adding encumbrance.
Equipment encumbrance - Heavy armor, full coverage helmets and large shields now encumber the user's skills and endurance somewhat.
Period accurate clothing - Gowns, hosen and really fancy headwear complement the historic setting of this mod.
In-game item descriptions for all this - The item info screen now has a detailed description of all the weapons, armor and clothing added by this mod.

Various ammo types - Both broad and pointy arrows, ball ammunition and shot for gunpowder weapons.
Added a number of civilian weapons - By making them tools with various uses civilians now carry daggers and cudgels.
Added and modified trap components - Tridents, forks, giant hammers & more.

Rebalanced weapons - Reduced massive contact areas, regulated the armor penetration to be more realistic and gave weapons a realistic weight.
Rebalanced armor and clothing - Armor thickness is now more consistent, armor can be worn over other armor only where feasible.
Altered metals - High-impact edged attacks can now break bones even when they fail to cut through the armor, padded and leather armor actually works.
Rebalanced unarmed combat - Contact area of all unarmed attacks in the game increased, lowered bone density, and reduced velocity of entity creature attacks.
Adrenaline simulation - An interaction gives creatures in combat a substantial boost in willpower. Fights are longer and less luck-of-draw.
Added collarbones and hipbones - Internal 'limbs' between the limbs and body. Breakable, realistic, and enables some other mod features.

Moved flails to the whip skill - And made whips and scourges tool instead of weapons.
Moved two-handed polearms to the pike skill - Forcing the silly entity equipment system to not use a shield along with them.
Removed armor pants - Moved leg protection to foot-worn armor, lower body protection was already on upper body armor.
Changed leather armor to boiled leather armor - This is not regular tanned leather, but a hard, almost plastic-like material. Can be worn as addition to mail armor, or by itself if your desperate.


Latest Version Download here!

Older versions:
Revision 6c (43.05)
Revision 6b (43.05)
Revision 5b
Revision 4c
Revision 3b
Weapons file with fixed secondary attacks, goes with 3c
Revision 2
Initial release version


How-to-use
- Grab dfhack, either from its own page http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164123.0 or from any of the all-in-one packs out there.

 - Copy the contents of '1 - Arms and Armor' to /raw
   Overwrite all, the base mod is ready for use.
   Note: The mod now ships with a number of scripts, all of which go in the raw folder (or hack/scripts/modtools in case of the two located in the modtools folder)
   
 - Add the following line to dfhack.init in the base DF folder: sc-script add SC_WORLD_LOADED raw/scripts/grims.init
   If no dhack.init exists, rename dfhack.init.example to it.

 - For the metallurgy mod, copy the contents of '2 - Metallurgy' to /raw as well.
   Be sure not to do it in reverse order, that would make a mess of things.
   I do not know what happens when you use only the metallurgy parts. Some custom re-fitting would likely be needed, but I won't be doing that.

 - Compatibility patches are still being worked on

 - The 3rd folder contains a file with all the entity tags for this mod. Useful if you want to integrate this mod with other mods.

 - The 4th folder contains some legacy items and a nifty armor man civ, a whole bunch of suits of armor walking around by themselves. You can dismantle and wear them if your human sized.

Compatibility notes for integration with other mods by Amostubal:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=146737.msg7617631#msg7617631


Changelog:

7b: Fixed the fixed artillery.
- Fixed an issue where the script choked on items not having a weight calculated and issues with targeting not considering floors when shooting down/up and seeing fortifications as walls.
    also made some small improvements to the scripts performance, and fixed a rare instance of ammo being fired but not being removed from the barrel.
 
7a: Added tons of stuff, including dfhack scripts.
- Two scripts with easy customization: modtools/ranged-mod and modtools/arty-mod
    ranged-mod can modify ranged weapons in more ways than this mod even had use for. you can now add handgonnes, but also burst-fire rifles, miniguns, explosive table throwing slings, etc.
   arty-mod turns buildings with the appropriate reactions into artillery pieces, letting dwarves load them and blast enemies to oblivion with them. artillery operators will become fearless of the enemy while they do so.
   run modtools/ranged-mod -usage or modtools/arty-mod -usage in the dfhack terminal for more details.
 - Implementation of the above two in the form of handgonnes, arquebusses, arbalests and war darts as well as bombards, organ guns, swivel-mounted serpentines and light ballistas. They have longer reload times, produce smoke and muzzleflash and are less accurate than bows and crossbows, but hit with quite a bit of punch.
 - New ranged weapon functionality extended to default weapons. Bows, crossbows, etc now have damage falloff, differing fire rates and accuracy as well as quality scaling that make them actually hit harder, faster and more accurate as their ammunition and the weapon itself are of higher quality.
 - Fashion! Gowns, chapperons, liripipes and hosen added to complete the historic weapons & armor. Added advantage is most terms for medieval fashion apply to both genders, most of what comes with this mod is mens fashion (I'm steering clear of hennins for now) but gowns and such were worn by both women and men so the 'warrior in a dress' thing is no longer a thing.
 - 783 lines of item descriptions now help in making clear what exactly poleaxes, liripipes and arquebusses actually are.
 - Equipment encumbrance added through the stock dfhack script modtools/item-trigger. Heavier armor will cost some endurance but also add toughness, large shields will cost strength to simulate them getting in the way of weapons.
 - Numerous fixes which I may or may not have forgotten by now. 7a is obviously not save compatible.

Spoiler: Older changes (click to show/hide)


Accreditations and misc notes:
- Loads of thanks be to zaporozhets who's worked I've pretty damn heavily drawn from for the ranged-mod and artillery script! His stuff here, check it out http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171742.0
 - The entirety of the DFhack team and the folks who write scripts for it.
 - Compatibility for the 42.06 creature variation file and the Modest bodies mod gracefully provided by Taffer
 - Made possible with glorious Science committed by Urist da Vincy and many others
 - Helped along by various members of the community that pointed out errors and potential improvements.
 - Any criticism or comment, be it positive, negative or neither, is very much appreciated!
 - Anyone is free to use all or parts of this mod in their own projects, or to fork this project if they think I'm making a mess of things! Crediting me is optional, though appreciated.

This mod is (partially or entirely) included in:
 - A more mundane mod
 - Legendary Dwarf Fortress
 - Asin's Goblinoids (and Orcs) Mod
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 11:20:59 am by Grimlocke »
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Ladygolem

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Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2014, 08:19:30 pm »

Looks really interesting! Question: what was the motivation for making whips, scourges, etc. tools?

Grimlocke

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Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2014, 08:57:12 am »

It's purely to get the game to stop placing them on soldiers. Carrying a whip to a battlefield would be an immensely silly thing to do, especially after I adjusted their rather weird armor penetrating behaviour.

I also tried to have the game use actual leather for them but [LEATHER] did not work. I'm still trying to figure out if wool whips are better than steel whips.
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Grimlocke

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Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2015, 09:33:34 pm »

Updated! See above.
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2015, 06:28:46 am »

I guess that the OP steel whips of normal DF are supposed to be flails and are just implemented wrong. Since this mod adds flails, steel whips are unnecessary.
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Dynastia

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Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2015, 06:46:45 pm »

Lastly there are some names I can't figure out. What is a general term for someone using a two-handed polearm?

Guisarmier is the modern term most people use, but the contemporary English referred to all polearms as 'staves' and their wielders as 'stavesmen'.

Or for a viking-style sword without using any time/place/people names?

You could call it an arming sword and then call the more classical knightly-style arming sword a 'cruciform sword', if you were so inclined. Or maybe early arming sword vs modern arming sword. Personally, I'd call it a dwarven sword.

I'm also not too sure about 'flailman', but 'flailer' is worse for certain.

I'd go with 'flailsman'.
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Grimlocke

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Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2015, 09:42:36 pm »

Thanks! Those actually work rather well!

'Stavesman' and 'flailsman' also have the benefit of the name being self-explanatory.

'Cruciform sword' from what I have read mostly refers to the larger swords with 2-handed grips, which I already used other names for (bastard sword, longsword and two-handed sword, in order of size).

Early/modern arming sword works I suppose. I considered calling some weapons after their host civilisation, but that would add the problem of it not being apparent just what shape the sword has just from 'dwarven sword' or 'goblin axe'. It would be really nice to have ingame descriptions of weapons and other items, beside 'this is a steel sword, it is studded with well made groundhog bone'

Anyhow, the next version of this mod will alter civilisation creatures. It will be easy to include the new profession names.
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Dynastia

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Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2015, 07:01:20 am »

No, cruciform swords included any sword defined by their crucifix-like shape ; the flat crossbar that serves as a hilt/handguard. There were certainly cruciform longswords, and at some point that might have even been the norm in places like Germany and Switzerland but for the most part your typical cruciform sword was a one-handed arming sword, pretty much directly evolved from the spatha and viking sword.

It's a tricky thing to get the names both accurate and looking nice for stuff like viking swords and scythian axes, etc., unless you're making direct cultural analogues (dwarves = vikings or dwarves = romans, etc.), but personally I think early/modern arming swords might be your best option. It's clunky, but so is anything else I can think of.
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2015, 01:00:28 pm »

Mythical mining dwarves came from Norse mythology, but they are not real Vikings and their crafts should not be referred to as such.
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Grimlocke

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Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2015, 12:35:36 pm »

No, cruciform swords included any sword defined by their crucifix-like shape ; the flat crossbar that serves as a hilt/handguard. There were certainly cruciform longswords, and at some point that might have even been the norm in places like Germany and Switzerland but for the most part your typical cruciform sword was a one-handed arming sword, pretty much directly evolved from the spatha and viking sword.

It's a tricky thing to get the names both accurate and looking nice for stuff like viking swords and scythian axes, etc., unless you're making direct cultural analogues (dwarves = vikings or dwarves = romans, etc.), but personally I think early/modern arming swords might be your best option. It's clunky, but so is anything else I can think of.

On cruciform swords: I suppose your correct, though that does leave the name being a lot more encompassing than I would like.

And yes the names have proven to be one of the harder parts of getting this kind of mod right. Most archaeological finds are named after the place they were found, or by the people that supposedly used them, neither of which I can use here and the more general names are often too ambiguous, obscure or localized. There are for instance about 6 weapons in this mod that could be called just 'pollaxe', since this name refers to a type of construction and use rather than any specific configuration.

It would be pretty nice if I could hack in item descriptions for weapons. May have to look into that.
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Dynastia

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Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2015, 12:22:23 pm »

It might be an idea to just pick a certain historical location and specific timeframe for each entity and then remove all other weapons as redundant ; or maybe even split them up into multiple mini-mods, so people can choose whether they want their dwarves using 14th century franch or 8th century viking equipment, etc. That would mostly solve the problem of having 6 different poleaxes. To be honest it's probably a good idea to merge any weapons that have similar form and function into a more generalised title, and you'd still have a boatloads of improvement over vanilla DF, historically speaking.

Oh, just wanted to ask, are you going to restrict elven weapons to ones that would work fairly well if made of wood (spears, clubs, flails, etc.) and take away their silly wooden longswords? I'd like that.
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2015, 12:38:13 pm »

If elves used obsidian, then they could make macuahuitl. Otherwise, wooden swords should be out, except for bludgeoning.
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Grimlocke

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Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2015, 04:52:10 pm »

Already changed the elven weapons, they now use a quarterstaff, club and threshing flail. I don't actually know how much sense wooden spears make, or whether it would do anything other than blunt damage.

I tried to get elves to use flint and obsidian some time ago but that didn't work out so well. I might take another swing at that some time in the future, though I'm not sure about shoe-horning in weapons from a completely different continent into medieval Europe. Then again, tree-hugging cannibal Elves don't make any sense there either... eh ill see.

And yes I did think of splitting the mod into various time/place variations, the entity file I have in there now already has east-European weapons split off from some of the west-European, though I have been having somewhat of a harder time finding accurate information about the later east-European weapons and armor.

I am not entirely satisfied about the approach, if only because equating the Rus to Goblins does not do the Rus much justice... but it's certainly better than every civ having a weird soup of weapons and armor from all over the place (and time).

Splitting up the mod in multiple files would be nice once it gets any bigger, though it could get.. complicated what with every imaginable era and place having at least some overlap with others. Mail, spears and bows for instance are all but ubiquitous from the Romans to the end of the middle ages. I suppose I could make a basic set of weapons and then split off the more specific ones into separate files? Better make an excel sheet at that rate though.

Having a dark age mod would be pretty neat though. It's a fascinating era, rather under-appreciated in the media if you ask me.
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2015, 06:42:06 pm »

Wooden stakes can be very sharp and leave horrible splintered wounds. Punji sticks work on similar principles. Where they fail is in piercing armour and not breaking apart with repeated use.

Who said DF was mediaeval Europe? Toady referenced goblins being influenced by the Assyrians once. Elves seem like some sort of Amazonian or New Guinean savage tribe who have strange ways of getting wood without harming trees or resorting to cheap penis jokes.

Since the "weapon balance mod" has died down and achieved little, could historically appropriate raws changes like removing most of the head muscle and fat fit in this mod? If the aim is to recreate historical combat, that is not possible without some raws changes (unarmed attacks are still too strong with the current version of the mod).
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 06:45:06 pm by Urist Tilaturist »
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On the item is an image of a dwarf and an elephant. The elephant is striking down the dwarf.

For old times' sake.

Grimlocke

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Re: Grimlocke's Historic Arms & Armor (0.40.xx) - Revision 2
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2015, 11:56:22 pm »

I said it was set in medieval Europe :)

I know DF canon is kind of... ambiguous about its exact setting, but all the weapons and attire are basically copies from D&D, which in turn based its weapon set on medieval Europe. I'm also no big fan of games and other media throwing together things from cultures from completely different times and places, like the obligatory katana that is in every game with melee weapons ever. It just looks... weird and out of place in settings which is nowhere near Japan. Katanas don't even make sense in the technical aspect either when places alongside plate armor and morningstarts. The shape of a katana stems from its laminated construction, which in turn is a result from the lack of good quality iron ore in the Japanese archipelago. Plate armor suggests a thriving steel working industry and a plenty of material to work with.

...

/rant

Aaanyhow, I do realize the Elves are going to fail at making any sense one way or another. At some point I will either give them a selection of neolithic weapons or outfit them as woodland brigands with metal weapons. For now giving them less silly wooden sticks will have to do, wooden spears will be added in the next version of this mod.

As for the general combat balance stuff: I currently have modified unarmed combat (including animal bites), an adrenaline simulation interaction that gives creatures a ton of willpower and some endurance as long as combat lasts, and adding the head muscle fix it pretty trivial. I'm already modifying the entity creatures anyway.

It's all gotten a bit slow to progress though as some modifications I made in the metal raws which largely fixed armored, armed combat had the nasty side-effect of requiring me to separately rebalance and test every weapon (rather than the last version where I had at least a rough guideline).

...

Elves seem like some sort of Amazonian or New Guinean savage tribe who have strange ways of getting wood without harming trees or resorting to cheap penis jokes.

 :P
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