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Author Topic: Mystic Fighting Stuff  (Read 2207 times)

AceSV

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Mystic Fighting Stuff
« on: April 24, 2015, 05:20:06 pm »

I'm wondering about adding some mild super powers to fighting in Dwarf Fortress. 

Advanced Techniques - Dwarves can gain advanced maneuvers by practicing a lot.  A civilian might throw a sloppy punch that can land anywhere, a trained grappler can land a skull-shattering blow to the temple.  Striking, grappling and weapon attacks could all benefit.  I know that's mostly how it works already, but I think there's room to add a little more flair.  Knee strikes, head butts, neck chops, disarming strikes, pressure point blows.  These could even be cultural, i.e. Dwarf Thai use knee strikes, while Dwarf Japanese use karate chops, etc. 

Training Machines - Punching bags, mechanical moving targets, weights to lift, etc.  Would need to be balanced against sparring, for example, training machines could require a lot of expensive parts, but increase the training more than sparring, or machines could improve base stats, strength, agility, toughness, while sparring improves technique, sword skill, armor skill, etc. 

Berzerking - Like the Martial Trance or Prone to Rage, but something you train you to do.  A dabbling Rager can rage 2% of the time, a Legendary Rager can rage 100% of the time and get better benefits to raging.  Maybe something that dwarves can only discover "by accident", for example, there's no way to train to rage until your dwarf enters a Martial Trance in combat, but after that, the dwarf can try to do it on purpose and teach others to do it. 

Enchanted Weapons - Artifact weapons could have more elaborate bonuses.  Myth, fantasy and video game are filled with ideas: swords that flame, staffs that grow, throwing weapons that magically return, weapons that fight on their own, and so forth.  I think a lot of players express disappointment when their blacksmith makes an artifact lay pewter axe or something like that and it's not even as good as goblinite.  Besides producing them yourself, invaders could occasionally bring enchanted weapons, either handed down by gods and demons, or stolen from other civs.  If the tavern upgrade brings heroes to your fortress, extra heroic weapons could bring enchanted weapons with them.  Weapons could also gain their enchantments after creation, but I'm not sure how.  Maybe the religion system could be one source. 

Rare Genius - The idea that certain individuals are natural geniuses who can unlock a full potential that no one else can touch.  Son Goku, Chuck Norris, HollisticDetective, etc.  These geniuses are well beyond the physical capabilities of other dwarfs.  They are one-dwarf-armies, capable of beating down an entire siege single-handed, ripping out the heart of a forgotten beast or suplexing a bronze colossus.  The genius cannot be taught, nor can they teach what they do to non-geniuses, it just comes naturally to them. 

Ancient Master - The opposite of a genius, the ancient master has gained knowledge through years, maybe centuries, of study and training.  He can teach others, though they must dedicate themselves and train as hard for as long as the ancient master has to get to the same level.  Among other benefits, masters could unlock a bodily secret that prevents them from aging, so that they can keep studying beyond a normal lifespan.  i.e. Master Roshi from DBZ is like 700 years old.  Besides people as masters, there could be fighting manuals or ancient scrolls that instruct new warriors. 

Ninja - Warriors with intense training or the necessary gadgets can perform feats like climbing walls, jumping huge distances, walking on water, using camouflage, etc.  Rare Geniuses and Ancient Masters might be able to go farther, pass through walls, become invisible, fly, breath water, etc. 

Qigong - The apparently totally for real kung fu technique of temporarily hardening your body to deflect wounds:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iwyTJuDGiA  In Dwarf Fortress, this might give martial artists the ability to turn their tissues into stone, bronze or steel, at the instant an attack connects. 

Auras - A staple of eastern martial arts, the idea that sufficiently trained martial artists can detect powerful or evil auras from other martial artists.  In some interpretations, auras are an extension of animal danger instinct, the ability to detect that something is capable of doing you harm.  Martial artist can sharpen this danger sense to get more information out of it, physical or mental or spiritual training increases someone's danger level, aura specialists can hide their auras to avoid detection or heighten their auras to psyche out strong opponents or completely avoid weaker ones. 

This - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iwyTJuDGiA

EDIT:  4/26: Added some things. 
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 09:11:46 am by AceSV »
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mystic Fighting Stuff
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2015, 03:26:58 pm »


Rare Genius - The idea that certain individuals are natural geniuses who can unlock a full potential that no one else can touch.  Son Goku, Chuck Norris, etc.  These geniuses are well beyond the physical capabilities of other dwarfs.  They are one-dwarf-armies, capable of beating down an entire siege single handed, ripping out the heart of a forgotten beast or suplexing a bronze colossus.  The genius cannot be taught, nor can they teach what they do to non-geniuses, it just comes naturally to them. 

Ancient Master - The opposite of a genius, the ancient master has gained knowledge through years, maybe centuries, of study and training.  He can teach others, though they must dedicate themselves and train as hard for as long as the ancient master has to get to the same level.  Besides people as masters, there could be fighting manuals, ancient scrolls that instruct new warriors. 


Have you read the story of Holistic Detective? That dwarf beat up goblins using a silk bag.
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Splint

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Re: Mystic Fighting Stuff
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2015, 03:48:49 pm »

Have you read the story of Holistic Detective? That dwarf beat up goblins using a silk bag.

It was a rat leather backpack actually.

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mystic Fighting Stuff
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2015, 04:30:51 pm »

oh. I'm pretty certain... but I think you would know. It's still quite an accomplishment, beating goblins with a bag.
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AceSV

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Re: Mystic Fighting Stuff
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2015, 07:38:47 pm »

It's less impressive depending on what version of physics he was using, but it would still make a great action movie. 
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Starver

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Re: Mystic Fighting Stuff
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2015, 09:27:16 pm »

It's less impressive depending on what version of physics he was using, but it would still make a great action movie.
ISTR recall this being a major conceit of the late 1990s TV series "Martial Law" where Sammo Hung (a slightly older and more corpulent Kung-Fu artist from the same performing stable as Jackie Chan, and arguably every bit as skilled... at least) plays the semi-eponymus "Sammo Law", a Chinese law-enforcement officer transferred into the LAPD because... plot.  And as well as the obvious "fish out of water" culture-clash elements, of course his(/his character's) exceptional martial-arts skills, especially with 'ad-hoc' objects, make him very useful indeed in a tight spot and an unexpected asset.  Especially against the local criminals expecting a normal US cop.

At one point (IIRC, perhaps in the pilot episode) one of his more incredulous new 'colleagues' got him to demonstrate his techniques in the office, and he successfully used a towel to fend off and incapacitate the challenger.  Kerb Stomp Battle, of course.  And of course it was the same in the 'real' combat situations in the series too, but the towel situation (what I recall of it) comes straight to mind.

(Ah... nostalgia.  Not sure if I'm adding a useful point, except to highlight merely one example out of many that shows that it's a viable fictional trope that can easily be justified as 'realistic' in a DF setting.)
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Naryar

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Re: Mystic Fighting Stuff
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2015, 05:08:10 pm »

I feel that it ain't too fiting with the medieval european fantasy DF is at the moment.

Pankration, Western martial arts, berserkers in battle ? Yes.

But all the anime/martial arts movie stuff is just not fitting to the genre.

neblime

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Re: Mystic Fighting Stuff
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2015, 09:02:17 pm »

having your own named combat moves (and teaching to/learning from others) is planned,
the rest would be cool though
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Neonivek

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Re: Mystic Fighting Stuff
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2015, 09:00:24 pm »

I feel that it ain't too fiting with the medieval european fantasy DF is at the moment.

Pankration, Western martial arts, berserkers in battle ? Yes.

But all the anime/martial arts movie stuff is just not fitting to the genre.

I think that Dwarf Fortress is currently European out of more necessity and that the more worldly influences will be introduced a bit later... But lets deal with what works and doesn't work in my mind.

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Advanced Techniques

Already planned

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Training Machines

Already implemented to a certain extent but there is nothing harmful about expanding this a bit.

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Berzerking

It already exists in the game. Some creatures can become "Enraged" which is something that Dwarves do not do.

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Enchanted Weapons

Already planned

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Rare Genius

To a certain extent this is already planned and implemented. Yet still I don't think there should be much in the way for a person who is incredibly gifted at a skill from teaching others should their teaching ability, and the skill of their student, permit.

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Ancient Master - The opposite of a genius

Conceptually I am just going to say no.

An Ancient Master and a Genius are very similar. Gameplay wise there isn't much to distinguish the difference other then an Ancient master is old.

HOWEVER! it wouldn't be unusual for people who achieve mastery in the martial arts early in life, due to talent and opportunity, to have less of an urge to teach their findings to others... Then it would be an senior who knows he doesn't have long left.

It could be linked to age easily enough this urge to teach others.

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Ninja - Warriors with intense training or the necessary gadgets can perform feats like climbing walls, jumping huge distances, walking on water, using camouflage, etc.  Rare Geniuses and Ancient Masters might be able to go farther, pass through walls, become invisible, fly, breath water, etc.

While historically those kinds of ninjas never existed. The idea of a dedicated type of assassin for a civilization isn't a bad one and works for generic fantasy. Along with skills they find "typical" for their kind which might include climbing.

Neither is a assassin guild or group having access to "secrets" that they teach the higher ups. Yet I don't think the game should go out of its way to ensure that ninja specific ones exist. It might mean that the assassins know necromancy and not cool flight abilities.

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Qigong - The apparently totally for real kung fu technique of temporarily hardening your body to deflect wounds

Yep this is indeed real in many ways. Yet outside of I guess salting. It should just be reflected in someone taking toughness training.

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Auras:  A staple of eastern martial arts, the idea that sufficiently trained martial artists can detect powerful or evil auras from other martial artists.

Ignoring that "No" that isn't true (The idea is more fear tactics). I have no real issue with a possible secret in the game being an ability to see the soul of another person.

Though being a "secret" it means it isn't standard that is gained just by being a great martial artist.
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Splint

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Re: Mystic Fighting Stuff
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2015, 09:23:44 pm »

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Berzerking
It already exists in the game. Some creatures can become "Enraged" which is something that Dwarves do not do.

Actually, any unit can become enraged (presumably this means it can't be undead or have [NOEMOTION].)

For most units, this requires some kind of injury or have a higher than normal anger value (as I have seen humans, dwarves, and goblins sometimes spontaneously become enraged at the sight of enemies.) Granted it usually comes from injury and is rare in general, but still.

AceSV

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Re: Mystic Fighting Stuff
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2015, 11:57:13 pm »

Maybe I didn't explain the Rare Genius and Ancient Master well enough.  The Rare Genius would be sort of like a very rare caste.  Their abilities are biological (but both physical and mental), so they cannot pass on what they can do to non-geniuses.  To them, trying to teach what they do to a non-genius would be like you teaching a snake how to walk.  The Ancient Master would be more like a necromancer, except that they practice and teach martial arts instead of making zombies. 

I did say that berzerking could be like the [PRONE_TO_RAGE] and [TRANCES] tokens, but it would be something that is learned to do and gets better with training instead of being born with it and activating it automatically. 

I feel that it ain't too fiting with the medieval european fantasy DF is at the moment.

Pankration, Western martial arts, berserkers in battle ? Yes.

But all the anime/martial arts movie stuff is just not fitting to the genre.

I think the problem with that view is that the western world created Star Wars and D&D with some eastern inspiration, and now a lot of anime/martial arts movies borrow elements from those as well as from more traditional oriental sources.  So to me there is a lot of muddy water to wade through when talking about what is eastern and what is western.  But I think most fantasy literature and fantasy video games embrace the idea that mystic martial arts exist somewhere, even if they're not part of everyday life. 
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Neonivek

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Re: Mystic Fighting Stuff
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2015, 12:23:33 am »

What your talking about is more that a "Rare Genius" internalizes all his training to the extent that he is incapable of explaining it to others.

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and D&D with some eastern inspiration

No, dnd is quite firmly western for the most part with many of its eastern inspiration coming in quite a bit later (and even then they are often faux eastern rather than eastern inspired)

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I think most fantasy literature and fantasy video games embrace the idea that mystic martial arts exist somewhere, even if they're not part of everyday life. 

Yes but in this case we need it to make sense within this world and make as few special exceptions as possible.

The game shouldn't attempt to make "Rare Geniuses and Ancient Masters" but rather should just have a system of teaching in place that allows those things to pass.

Teaching is a skill afterall and people who are quick to master an art aren't necessarily the best at teaching it.
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Hinaichigo

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Re: Mystic Fighting Stuff
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2015, 09:09:36 am »

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Berzerking

It already exists in the game. Some creatures can become "Enraged" which is something that Dwarves do not do.

One of my dwarves went enraged actually, when being attacked by crundles.  He killed them. 
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