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Author Topic: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread  (Read 1244289 times)

Truean

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #840 on: March 30, 2012, 10:36:46 am »

sad
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 05:36:42 am by Truean »
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penguinofhonor

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #841 on: March 30, 2012, 06:19:38 pm »

So it seems we have a separate thread for our Santorum slur shenanigans. I guess keep that stuff there for ease of communication.

Anyways, it seems like Apple might be doing something about the human rights violations in its factories in China?

Quote
Taiwan's Foxconn Technology Group, whose subsidiary Hon Hai Precision Industry assembles Apple devices in factories in China, will hire tens of thousands of new workers, eliminate illegal overtime, improve safety protocols and upgrade workers' housing and other amenities.

It is a response to one of the largest investigations ever conducted of a U.S. company's operations outside of America. Apple (AAPL.O) had agreed to the probe by the independent Fair Labor Association FLA.L to stem a crescendo of criticism that its products were built on the backs of mistreated Chinese workers.

The association, in disclosing its findings from a survey of three Foxconn plants and over 35,000 workers, said it had unearthed multiple violations of labour law, including extreme hours and unpaid overtime.

This quote makes me angry:
Quote
Still, labour costs are a fraction of the total cost of most high-tech devices, so consumers might not see higher prices.

Why has this not been done before? And why haven't consumers demanded it? I can understand the line of thought (however horrible) that thinks paying an extra 10% for your products is not worth it for better working conditions in China, but if this isn't going to affect the consumer then why don't more consumers seem to care?
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sluissa

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #842 on: March 30, 2012, 11:50:01 pm »

Furthermore, will this investigation go beyond foxconn? What about the sources of the parts that foxconn uses to assemble the products? As it is, part manufacturers go to great lengths to get apple contracts, simply because it looks good on their company resume, trying desperately to push down costs, occasionally making only marginal profits simply to have the prestige of being one of apple's suppliers. You know employees are going to be feeling some of these cost cutting measures.

What about other companies' factories?
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Truean

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #843 on: April 02, 2012, 02:30:17 pm »

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0402/Supreme-Court-approves-strip-searches-for-minor-offenses

And once again, in a 5-4 majority right down party lines, the conservatives have taken away yet another of your rights.... 

"Prospective travelers are routinely forced to undergo the technological equivalent of a strip search as a condition of undertaking a journey by commercial aircraft." <---- You see this? This is what people don't understand about why I get worried about this crap. It isn't a "slippery slope" logical fallacy. This is how people who make decisions think. They do "one little thing," and then that just opens the door from there to whatever. The argument goes "if they can technologically strip search everyone at the airport without reasonable suspicion, then certainly they can do that to a jail inmate no matter how minor the crime."

Here, the guy was pulled over in a routine traffic stop and they brought him in for a warrant for civil contempt. Basically he didn't pay a court fine years ago. This lead to him being strip searched as part of the arrest. No violence suspected, no drugs either:

We used to be a free country.... Now, we're just a frightened one. Thank you GOP; not paying a small court fine now means 6 days in jail and two strip searches in front of other inmates and I'm not joking in the slightest. The liberals on the court think this is a problem; the conservatives do not....

I don't get it. It's sad
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 05:39:26 am by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #844 on: April 02, 2012, 02:41:47 pm »

Hopefully some of the conservative judges will retire before Obama's second term is over. I'm surprised Scalia is still on the court, actually. He's really old (76) and doesn't look that healthy at all.
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Heron TSG

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #845 on: April 02, 2012, 02:53:40 pm »

"Prospective travelers are routinely forced to undergo the technological equivalent of a strip search as a condition of undertaking a journey by commercial aircraft." <---- You see this? This is what people don't understand about why I get worried about this crap. It isn't a "slippery slope" logical fallacy. This is how people who make decisions think. They do "one little thing," and then that just opens the door from there to whatever. The argument goes "if they can technologically strip search everyone at the airport without reasonable suspicion, then certainly they can do that to a jail inmate no matter how minor the crime."
I really wish that the slippery slope went both ways sometimes.

"Proposition 8 wants to ban gay marriage in California! Just think, maybe they'll try and get rid of all marriage with their next proposition!"

But no, it's always a constant threat of things getting worse.
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Frumple

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #846 on: April 02, 2012, 03:24:47 pm »

Yeah, reading through that article... it was actually a bit worse than True summarized, as the guy did pay the court fines in question; the only reason he had a warrant out for 'im was a clerical error. Someone fucked up their filing, person got stripped twice, at least once in front of detainees. Fellow files lawsuit, SCOTUS says "Oh well, too bad. Safety, you know?"

It's two separate issues (Bad filing, plainface 4th amendment violation Now writ down as constitutional, ahahaha), but damn. Just... damn. The trend continues.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #847 on: April 02, 2012, 03:32:07 pm »

Hey True, is it possible to sue the system for needless harm and incompetence?
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Kilroy the Grand

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #848 on: April 02, 2012, 03:36:04 pm »


We used to be a free country.... Now, we're just a frightened one. Thank you GOP; not paying a small court fine now means 6 days in jail and two strip searches in front of other inmates and I'm not joking in the slightest. The liberals on the court think this is a problem; the conservatives do not....

At least we're not Britain.
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trees

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #849 on: April 02, 2012, 03:43:16 pm »

I guess that someone tried to bomb a Planned Parenthood in Wisconsin yesterday. No injuries, thankfully.
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Leafsnail

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #850 on: April 02, 2012, 03:59:31 pm »

At least we're not Britain.
Basically the exact same bill was whacked down last time it was tried in 2006, and the government wasn't in a coalition and there was more public panic about terrorism.  I don't see how it can pass considering what good political points the other parties would get for standing against it.  Not to mention it's a huge vote loser in an (admittedly not too important) election year...
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Virex

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #851 on: April 02, 2012, 04:11:20 pm »

Can we go back to the start of this argument for a second? MSH mentioned drones as well. That seems to me a even bigger deal then this jammer thing. I mean. Should a citizen be able to control a remote control killing/Spying device?


Wouldn't an armed drone fall under the second amendment?
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JoshuaFH

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #852 on: April 02, 2012, 04:12:29 pm »

Can we go back to the start of this argument for a second? MSH mentioned drones as well. That seems to me a even bigger deal then this jammer thing. I mean. Should a citizen be able to control a remote control killing/Spying device?


Wouldn't an armed drone fall under the second amendment?

I think there's a bit of a difference between owning a gun, and owning a robot with a gun.
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palsch

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #853 on: April 02, 2012, 04:31:23 pm »

At least we're not Britain.
Basically the exact same bill was whacked down last time it was tried in 2006, and the government wasn't in a coalition and there was more public panic about terrorism.  I don't see how it can pass considering what good political points the other parties would get for standing against it.  Not to mention it's a huge vote loser in an (admittedly not too important) election year...
It's probably going to be more interesting than that.

From what I've seen (and internal Tory politics is about as interesting as internal Republican politics; only when they are eating their own young) Dave and George are getting isolated at the top. George Osborn has been acting as both the Chancellor and head of Conservative political strategy. By all accounts he has sucked at it. His budget was simply stupid from a political point of view. Freezing pensioners tax allowance (instantly known as the Granny Tax) while cutting the top tax rate? Political suicide, even if the rest of the budget made more sense than it did. Then there is the NHS fiasco (they genuinely said - fortunately only once - that they wanted to use the US as a model...) which frankly should claim Lansley's head for being both the worst NHS reform bill I've seen (and that's saying something) and handled in the least politically competent manner possible. They don't have many tame Lib Dems left in the cabinet after David Laws got expelled. Other than Nick it's essentially just Vince Cable, and he isn't likely to offer much cover for much of anything. Maybe Danny Alexander can be used, but he isn't the most useful of fall guys either.

And now they are picking on the one issue both parties have shown opposition to when Labour tried to do it. You already have David Davis on the Tory side speaking out against it, and this is a man well seated to move back towards a leadership role as soon as one opens up. Which should be soon. I haven't heard a single Lib Dem speak in support of the idea, although most seem to be in wait and see mode. Right now the only group who seem to be in support of the idea are old Labour ministers.

And now they want to put this grossly unpopular idea that both sides of the coalition are on record as opposing into the Queens Speech. A speech that is followed by a major, extended debate (usually one of the few that news channels actually bother keeping an eye on) and then a guaranteed vote of confidence in the government.

I don't see how on earth this idea was even voiced. I simply can't believe that a bill with any sort of teeth will get put into the Speech (probably just a vague proposal). I also can't believe that anything not massively watered down would be passed. At best they could push something through resting on Labour support, but then Labour could easily defeat it just to hurt the government. And that's a black mark against Theresa May, one of Dave's loyalists.

So yeah, horrible idea. But could be entertaining to watch it make Dave squirm.

As for elections, yeah, not a big deal. Only councils and Mayoral left. I doubt the council elections would be decided over this sort of issue (people may vote to punish parties, but there are much more provincial reasons that they could give for punishing the coalition here). In the Mayoral... well, that's a hot mess anyway. Ken trying to play George Galloway's cards without being blatant about it (seriously, George basically said real Muslims vote for me while Ken is just making references to rich Jews and previously backed a candidate who had been expelled from his own party for combined election fraud and financial links to an extremist Islamist group) while Boris is, well, Boris.
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Levi

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Expression Thread
« Reply #854 on: April 03, 2012, 10:30:50 am »

http://shine.yahoo.com/beauty/miss-universe-canada-disqualifies-transsexual-contestant-she-born-192000420.html

Awww. I'm not really getting the rationale behind any of this.  Also don't read the comments. I made that mistake. I was kind of of the impression that you couldn't do this sort of thing in Canada? No? I mean I sorta thought GLBT people were more protected there than here. I remember watching a documentary about women's downhill bike racing that tried to exclude a transgender woman (MtF transsexual), and for whatever reason, they didn't disqualify her.

Whatever else you wanna say, you've sorta gotta (or should at least) give her credit for getting as far as she did. Being a national beauty pageant contestant is a hell of a thing, and not easy. I'm not saying being in a pageant is some sorta awe inspiring thing, because if the last few Miss America winners are any indication, they can say some pretty nutty things. I'm just saying, that's a heck of a long road to go from being a transgendered kid to a contestant in a beauty pageant.

I dunno, when if ever could someone just be considered a normal girl in that situation? That's kinda that goal....

http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/Transsexual+allowed+compete+Miss+Universe+Canada/6400095/story.html

She was un-disqualified.  :)  Nice to see a happy ending to one of these stories for once.
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