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[DWC]

Well, I guess it goes without saying that people should'nt be planning on working as a McMinion until retirement anyways. I've lived off around 1000$/mo for about 2 years straight. 2000$/mo is easily affordable unless you are area with a high cost of living, then it might be prudent to move or get a better job if the minimum wages are not any higher.

This Mcbudget thing here assumes 800$ for spending money, 100$ cable bill and a 150$ car note. That's a lot of extra, but that's pretty bad for working 60 hours a week. I'd rather live in my car then spend that much of my time making fat people food.

[GlyphGryph]

As someone who HAS lived out of his car for a year and a half to save money, seconded.

I can't really recommend it though, as it is either illegal or expensive in most states. But I'd be very tempted to go back to it if not for the family - I never understood the personal benefit of most of the shit people spend money on or why I should follow along, but I'm no longer just looking out for myself, so...

[Nadaka]

Well, I guess it goes without saying that people should'nt be planning on working as a McMinion until retirement anyways. I've lived off around 1000$/mo for about 2 years straight. 2000$/mo is easily affordable unless you are area with a high cost of living, then it might be prudent to move or get a better job if the minimum wages are not any higher.

This Mcbudget thing here assumes 800$ for spending money, 100$ cable bill and a 150$ car note. That's a lot of extra, but that's pretty bad for working 60 hours a week. I'd rather live in my car then spend that much of my time making fat people food.

That $100 cable/phone bill. Basically the sum total of this persons budgeted communication ability, that is a single smartphone bill, or the introductory rate for home cable/phone/internet (the normal non-introductory rate pushes that amount to around $150 or more).

That $150 car note is not an extra, if you expect to work you must have reliable transportation, and $150 a month is rather low, even for an old beater with no "note"; breakdowns, service and repair will easily cost that much or more. That $800 a month includes has to cover food, medicine, medical co-pays, clothing, cleaning supplies, gas, entertainment, childcare, etc. It is not enough, not even close.

[DWC]

Well, I guess it goes without saying that people should'nt be planning on working as a McMinion until retirement anyways. I've lived off around 1000$/mo for about 2 years straight. 2000$/mo is easily affordable unless you are area with a high cost of living, then it might be prudent to move or get a better job if the minimum wages are not any higher.

This Mcbudget thing here assumes 800$ for spending money, 100$ cable bill and a 150$ car note. That's a lot of extra, but that's pretty bad for working 60 hours a week. I'd rather live in my car then spend that much of my time making fat people food.

That $100 cable/phone bill. Basically the sum total of this persons budgeted communication ability, that is a single smartphone bill, or the introductory rate for home cable/phone/internet (the normal non-introductory rate pushes that amount to around $150 or more).

That $150 car note is not an extra, if you expect to work you must have reliable transportation, and $150 a month is rather low, even for an old beater with no "note"; breakdowns, service and repair will easily cost that much or more. That $800 a month includes has to cover food, medicine, medical co-pays, clothing, cleaning supplies, gas, entertainment, childcare, etc. It is not enough, not even close.

This example assumes a single person, so hopefully there are not any kids to spend on. I make plenty of money now and I still own a pre-paid 'dumb' phone. I think I buy a 45$ card once every two months. Your phone might be smart with a contract but spending 150/mo and signing a contract for a phone is dumb. Anyways, buying a 1000$ beater from somebody with cash is always better then getting a loan. I've never owned a beater that needed 150$/mo to maintain it. The whole point of a beater car is that it doesn't matter if shit breaks on it, so long as you do basic maintenance to keep it running and to keep you from getting pulled over, it's all you need. If it quits working entirely within a year, buy another 1000$ car. It's still cheaper then 150$/mo car note.

[Nadaka]

and if it stops working in 9 months then you had to budget at least $150 a month to make certain you have that $1000 to replace it. Not counting the cost of lost workdays from when it breaks down on you.

The average person has more than 1 child. You can't simply assume they do not exist when budgeting because it is convenient.

[GlyphGryph]

That $100 cable/phone bill. Basically the sum total of this persons budgeted communication ability, that is a single smartphone bill, or the introductory rate for home cable/phone/internet (the normal non-introductory rate pushes that amount to around $150 or more).

Who the hell would pay this much for this sort of thing? It's again the disconnect between the upper class and the lower class sensibilities. You can can purchase a good smartphone (not even a crappy one, but a good one) for a hundred bucks (fully paid for, no contract), and get unlimited text and internet for 35 a month on an as-needed basis.

That's still a good chunk of change for a person who isn't making a lot of money, and if you want home cable/internet that will probably add another 50 or 60 dollars on top of it (assuming again that you are getting good internet, not cheapo internet) and bring you up to a hundred dollars, but honestly isn't needed anyway.

It would be nice if tools ostensibly trying to help people with fiscal responsibility would put some effort into informing people that they are overpaying for stuff, of course, and guiding them to less ripoff alternatives. The site is basically a bunch of empty advice and even then they can't reasonably balance their numbers.

[palsch]

I'd say that home internet is a must, even if you have a smartphone. Throttling and 'fair usage' limits are pretty much universal even on 'unlimited' plans, and phones are still very limited compared to home computers in what sites and applications can be run - especially affordable phones. Not to mention that mobiles are easily lost, broken or stolen and losing your only means of internet and phone access can be catastrophic.

A home phone line is still required for some things. It's also a factor that can be taken into account when calculating your credit score, something that can be vital if you have a low income.

[Frumple]

What I don't understand is why there still are so few criminals - prison seems to be preferrable to a life like this.

It's not.

Prison will also pretty much completely fuck any chance you have of a future, here in the states. Could say that there's no future anyway, but... yeah. Ex-con is locked out of a hell of a lot in this society, or at least has to deal with much higher barriers of entry.

Unless you plan on spending the rest of your life in prison and, well. For most people, in flat honesty, they'd probably be better off with lead twixt the eyes.

[GlyphGryph]

I'd say that home internet is a must, even if you have a smartphone.

A home phone line is still required for some things. It's also a factor that can be taken into account when calculating your credit score, something that can be vital if you have a low income.

I don't know anyone with a low income who actually has a home phone now, oddly enough.

But if you've got home internet you don't need a smartphone. And you don't really need home internet, at least if you are somewhere in the US where you have free internet at the library. (assuming you have transportation to the library, but that's kinda the whole point of what I'm trying to say here - there are plenty of perfectly acceptable tradeoffs you can make, and paying the full amount for all of these various things is totally unnecessary)

You can live on a McDonalds salary, and even make progress towards a better future assuming you aren't already buried in debt (if you are, you're fucked), the people who built that sight simply have no idea how to do so, and so can't really help you out there.

[DWC]

Yeah, you can live off minimum wage and still bank money. You just can't expect an upper-middle class lifestyle or try to raise 6 kids, make payments on two new cars and a boat and a big house and the smartest phone money can buy either.

It's not hard to make enough money to survive on and still have your freedom. If you'd rather live in prison in exchange for food and shelter then make 500-1000$ a month then that's your prerogative, I'd rather live in a car and raid dumpsters and have all kinds of unmedicated health problems then be in prison, personally. I also don't think the whole of society should have a prison type system that exchanges freedom for material security either. Prison system is full of other failures that value material objects and social status over individual freedom, have it if that's where your priorities lie, it's not hard to sign up for a deal like that.

[Max White]

Seriously, $800 a month for working not one, but two jobs? Please tell me I misinterpreted that.
Over here, assuming you are providing evidence that you are actively searching for work and don't turn down a reasonable offer, government assistance is a little over $900 a month, and that is in a nation with a better public health care scheme on top. And even that is going off the bare minimum it takes to survive without luxuries or savings.

Granted, our much higher minimum wage means daily commodities like food are more expensive to cover it, but for the items that really take a chunk from your budget such as rent and utilities we are about on par.

[DWC]

Seriously, $800 a month for working not one, but two jobs? Please tell me I misinterpreted that.
Over here, assuming you are providing evidence that you are actively searching for work and don't turn down a reasonable offer, government assistance is a little over $900 a month, and that is in a nation with a better public health care scheme on top. And even that is going off the bare minimum it takes to survive without luxuries or savings.

Granted, our much higher minimum wage means daily commodities like food are more expensive to cover it, but for the items that really take a chunk from your budget such as rent and utilities we are about on par.

Yeah rent is brutal. I have no idea why rent is always so frigging expensive. If there is any kind of neo-feudal fiefdom peasant-exploiting deal with a free-market it's the high rent. I'm guessing it's a product of building codes and zoning and everything else that makes construction and property expensive, but seriously landlords are aptly named and they must be making ridicious profits from what they charge for rent.

My goal is to buy up some inexpensive property and build some prefab metal hovel on it, so I just got property taxes. A place valued at 20k would have 200$/yr for taxes and it'd be break-even within 4 years compared to even dirt-cheap rental property. Only problem I suppose would be the municipality complaining about my hovel not being good enough for them and wanting to evict me or something, idk.

[Max White]

Rent is expensive because buildings are expensive, and because buildings are expensive the interest on the loan is expensive. Banks tend to have a much juicier profit margin than landlords. Couple debt interest with maintenance, insurance, and building depreciation, and you might find your money better spent elsewhere... Maybe. Obviously it is a profitable exercise, as people do it, but it isn't the free cash cow you read about in finance rags. The numbers can easily be skewed by the cashed up who can borrow larger amounts at lower interest to the rest of us.

Point is that if you want cheaper rental properties, you need lower interest rates, and that would require banks to actually act competitively and in the consumers best interest. So don't hold your breath.

[Vector]

Camp for gender non-conforming boys =)

[Pnx]

Camp for gender non-conforming boys =)

That... actually looks pretty damn nifty.