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Author Topic: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!  (Read 132734 times)

Telgin

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #915 on: November 17, 2018, 02:51:32 pm »

It's a little disheartening to know that Toby may not finish the project for lack of time and help, but it's understandable.  Game development is completely soul sucking, and this is a comparatively massive project.  That whole webpage actually read like it was written by someone who was already thoroughly exhausted.
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WillowLuman

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #916 on: November 18, 2018, 09:15:51 pm »

He was too soft to do what needed to be done, basically. He could have eaten the first human soul to show up, use that power to cross the barrier, and kill 6 more humans on the surface, gaining enough power to break the barrier. But he didn't want to go on a killing spree, so instead he just waited, and had humans killed as they fell down.

Not even kill them really, he could have gathered 6 souls from humans who were dying anyway.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #917 on: November 19, 2018, 01:07:17 am »

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NRDL

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #918 on: November 19, 2018, 01:29:30 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #919 on: November 19, 2018, 08:03:16 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Telgin

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #920 on: November 19, 2018, 11:26:58 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Egan_BW

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #921 on: November 19, 2018, 11:31:13 am »

Though things from DELTARUNE being necessary to understand things from UNDERTALE is made slightly more likely by the fact that Toby has been planning this game since before UNDERTALE.
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pikachu17

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #922 on: November 19, 2018, 01:19:23 pm »

But Sans and Papryus are brothers. Wouldn't Papyrus be a Darkner too?
I think monsters in Deltarune may bleed, otherwise why would Susie think Lancer saying he'd turn them into blood is cool?
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Telgin

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #923 on: November 19, 2018, 02:18:44 pm »

Yeah, the thing with Papyrus would be a problem unless they aren't actually brothers.  Papyrus is clearly an ordinary monster in Undertale since he turns to dust.

The thing with Susie is kind of up in the air.  On one hand, we haven't seen a monster die in Deltarune, so we don't know for sure that they don't have blood or turn to dust still, but there's also an NPC in town that asks Kris if it "hurts to be made of blood," so there's evidence that monsters don't have blood in Deltarune.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #924 on: November 19, 2018, 02:42:58 pm »

Well... if you want to get into spooky Gaster theorizing, Sans and Papyrus can still effectively be "brothers" while having very different underlying natures, due to being different aspects of Gaster from when he overdosed on science.
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Putnam

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #925 on: November 19, 2018, 07:42:44 pm »

All the mentions of blood in DELTARUNE are made by people pointing out that humans have blood (a monster talking to Kris), by someone who doesn't know that monsters don't (Lancer and his bucket) or referring to a darkner's blood in particular (Lancer's blood, in this case, in the endgame).

Determination doesn't give monsters blood: Undyne overdoses on it in both genocide and neutral, when you kill her. It just makes monsters melt.

The timeline of DELTARUNE vs UNDERTALE is such that I know for a fact that all of the following things in UNDERTALE are explicit DELTARUNE references:

1. All of the fun events, as reference to the Fun Gang, which had come into form in late 2014-early 2015, including:
  a. The Gaster Followers
  b. Clam girl/goner clam, who tells you about her neighbor's kid, Suzy
  c. The wrong number song, whose singer is calling for "G..."
  d. The sound test, which features Gaster's Theme, called mus_st_him in the game files, followed up in DELTARUNE by ANOTHER HIM
  e. Goner Kid, who talks about how terrifying it is that the world just goes on without them, then asks you to forget about them,
  f. "Mystery Man", fun value 66, almost certainly gaster, given...
  g. Nightmare, an amalgam of a snowman and Ice-E who shows up on the Monster Kids Word Search (yes, I do believe this is a DELTARUNE reference, see spoilers)
2. Room #66, Entry #17, featuring Gaster (typer #66 in the code) going on about the DARK; also in the files is battle data for Gaster, all of whose battle values are variants on 666.
3. Following up on 1b., if you've talked to Clam girl and heard about Suzy, Sans's workshop has a poorly drawn picture of three smiling people with "don't forget." written on it. Don't Forget is the name of the theme of DELTARUNE.

Here is what I suspect is a reference to DELTARUNE, and thus may be spoilers:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Telgin

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #926 on: November 19, 2018, 10:16:05 pm »

Yeah, that's more or less the theories that I read about Sans being a darkner, or at least having come from Deltarune first.  It makes a lot of sense, but only time will tell how much of it is true.  If Toby ever tells us, that is.  This is one of those sorts of things where telling too much can give answers nobody wanted, and make the whole thing worse than it was.

Also, this talk of Gaster has me wondering if or how much he has to do with the "demon" at the end of Undertale's genocide route.  "Chara" there tells you that they are more or less a personification of your violence, but with all of the references between Gaster, 666 and now souls in Deltarune, it makes me wonder if there's more to it.  Could Gaster have been the one to possess Kris after Kris tears out their soul at the end of Deltarune?  Could he be Chara?  Or some other meta representation or relation to the player?

Well, I guess it's possible that the being talking to you at the start of Deltarune during the "vessel's" creation isn't Gaster, or he has nothing to do with your soul or your possession of Kris, but it makes me wonder.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #927 on: November 19, 2018, 10:33:21 pm »

ANOTHER HIM certainly would seem to imply that whatever's talking to you at the start is DELTARUNE's version of Gaster.
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pikachu17

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #928 on: December 11, 2018, 04:33:06 pm »

Question about the prophet's line "Then, her heart pounding... The EARTH will draw her final breath. Only then, shining with hope, three heroes appear at world's edge.", has Earth ever been name dropped before in either game, what exactly does it mean? Is the current planet not Earth, and Earth was already destroyed? Is the EARTH not literally Earth, but rather some sort of rock elemental? And for that matter the preceding line "Then her heart pounding..." is kind of wierd if it isn't a living being. And the "only then" suggests it has already happened. Did Chara successfully destroy the Earth after Genocide, but missed this planet?

Also, I heard that it was specifically said in Our Town that they worship The Angel, but I don't t remember running into such dialogue.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 04:35:12 pm by pikachu17 »
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Telgin

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Re: Undertale: Spoilers! Its whats for dinner!
« Reply #929 on: December 11, 2018, 04:46:56 pm »

I don't recall seeing anything about what their religion is like, aside from it being hinted that they drink wine in some communion like ceremony.

The prophecy part is pretty strange and vague still, but I think it's probably just flowery language and not implying that the Earth is alive in any kind of capacity in universe.  It could be a reference to Chara destroying the world or universe though, in a different timeline.  It might sync up with what Sans says about timelines starting and ending in Undertale.  Perhaps this is just one of those timelines.

Speaking of Sans, I was rewatching the fight with him and it occurs to me that there are at least two times in Undertale, and probably more that I'm forgetting, where he speaks in a different font than Comic Sans, uses proper punctuation and doesn't have his characteristic voice.  I used to think he was just being uncharacteristically serious in those moments, and that may be all it is, but Deltarune's overtones related to possession make me wonder if there might be more going on with Sans in those moments.  Probably not.
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