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Author Topic: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!  (Read 357602 times)

Jalak

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #255 on: September 06, 2014, 11:18:41 pm »

Can you use every ability that you've unlocked, only one from each tree, or only one at all each turn? Do you lose those orbs in "cost" each time you use a power, or do they stay like that?

Also, I looked up the term "Hawk Wing Shield" and all I got was either a very fancy looking shield with wings sticking out of it, which didn't seem right considering what they are supposed to represent in-game, or S.H.I.E.L.D from the avengers...great now I can't stop thinking about them being in the game somehow. Throw in some pseudo time-travel event. It's Marvel, they'd totally have the avengers fight elder gods somehow (actually, they basically already have haven't they?).
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ERICdb

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #256 on: September 07, 2014, 03:00:41 am »

Since I nearly only gave positive feedback and I want this game to keep improving:

-The new UI is really great although I have the feeling that now it doesn't merge as well with the map. What I mean is that the UI seems minimalistic and "modern" while the map seems more an ancient scroll. Maybe it's just me though.  :P

-The UI for the Old One it's also great, but since I'm a big fan of symmetry I find odd that the Agents and Political views are symmetric while the Overview isn't. I think that, like it is in the left part, a black background gradient should be in the right side.

And one question:

-Is there a scrollable zoom-unzoom option? I haven't seen any. I can understand that some POI or agent images aren't HD and zooming in them could be horrible, but unzooming wouldn't be so bad in that sense and I'd really like to be able to see all the map at once to appreciate the destruction and chaos my machinations are causing. 
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ScriptWolf

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #257 on: September 07, 2014, 06:33:22 am »

I'm not sure if anyone has noticed but the date for the kickstart is 22 of this month.

King if we focus a lot of one of the none human nations e.g. Orcs or dwarfs would it be possible to build them up into a civilised nation and have them expand and become a force as big as what the human nations are ?
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Jalak

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #258 on: September 07, 2014, 06:54:17 am »

Yeah, but every time I look at that post I think "maybe there's some sort of secret-demo coming out sooner!"

We could call it the "bay12 demo-demo". Unpolished and not complete, sure, but we're dwarf fortress players. Turning bugs and incomplete features into integral parts of the game is something we do, expect and, sometimes, demand!
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KingDinosaurGames

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #259 on: September 07, 2014, 08:13:46 am »

You can use all of the unlocked abilities, though some of them are more powerful Imbues, some of them are passive, and others only operate on certain screens. 

Yeah that UI, that map - we could iterate on these a thousand times and never be happy.  Generally I'm resigned to the fact that it's not "ugly" now, and its very functional.  The design I wanted to go with was more thematic, if you ever played Dragon Age: Origins you may remember their menus were sinuous shapes that were given an aura, and then shaded themselves out to a half-transparent black.  Very good look and one I would have loved to use for our UI. 

The Old One UI isn't quite done, that big open space at the bottom of the overview is meant to have a more nefarious looking black border that snakes between the two sides linking them - though I agree with you that when I go back to add that in their should be a black border added to the abilities.  Thanks for that.

You can zoom out about 100% from what you saw, it disables all the mouseover stuff and places the POI shields in the middle of the POI and much larger so you get a better sense of the entire map's political state.  When you have a battle it actually does "zoom in" on the POI and blow out the heroes/agents involved to the edges.

haha, sorry I've been calling it a "hawk wing shield"  it just has sort've a violent frill at the edge - not sure where I got the term from.
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That Which Sleeps
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KingDinosaurGames

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #260 on: September 07, 2014, 12:59:44 pm »

Civilizing the "Uncivilized" is a major element of the game, but currently the Monstrous civilizations cannot change civilization tiers - it wasn't something we felt we could do justice to in the design time we had.  However, you can still take over the world - certain structures will reinforce and strengthen your dark allies otherwise weak governments to make long-term occupations a possibility.   This is not the most common route to go - more likely you will be leveraging each of your allies strengths and allowing them to fall on their weaknesses as well, relying on the multiple threats to win in the end as opposed to championing a single nation like you would in a more traditional strategy. 

If you have sufficiently corrupted a civilized nation, it does become feasible to create a world-spanning empire but it is incredibly difficult in some scenarios.  For example, in the North Burns you have only two nations that could possibly take on this task , Arden and Cylaria (MAYBE New Caledon but I've never seen that happen) - Cylaria would be a strong ally as it borders nations you can easily control, allowing you to naturally combat Arden - managing a victory here would almost assure you the game.  However, Cylarian culture is heavily paranoid of foreign influence, shadowy infiltration, and in particular orcs.  Even if you were to corrupt the King, his Feudal Barons are a powerful check on what you can actually accomplish - and fomenting a coup with your agents would be met with hostility from the aristocracy.  Put simply, the situation isn't amenable to this approach (but you can do it, with varying levels of success based on what build we're on - even a small change in the AI or importance to a statistic can tip the scales). 

Next door you have Arden, a cutthroat nation of mercenaries and profiteer slave-drivers ruled by a military dictator.  Yes, obviously, this is a much easier nation to bring over to your side.  However, it doesn't have the kind of cultural bonds that Cylaria does - maybe you do coup the King, install your own Agent and create a Dark Empire.   Revolution would almost certainly follow, with several regions breaking away, and then you are threatend by Cylaria desperate to reclaim their ancestral land, New Caledon who loath your breakaway status, and possibly even Toln or Aventura, both strong enough to combat a weakened state, even The Theocracy of Olm on your southern border may join in if they believe in that your agent is driven by an Old One.  This is definitely a "fun" route to take, but if you aren't properly prepared with other mechanisms it may be a fruitless exercise. 

Of course, all this really does shift with each AI build we do - we also are constantly building in new Actions, some of which can greatly push a nation in a given direction.   
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sjm9876

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #261 on: September 07, 2014, 01:04:44 pm »

Hmmm.... reading about the sheer scale of interaction already in place between nations, I would quite like to see some form of intro text to a scenario (even if only in a text only event such as shown in the vid.)

But bring on vid 3 :P
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Jalak

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #262 on: September 07, 2014, 10:55:13 pm »

So is this demo before or during kick starter? I keep getting confused with what you said about that.

Also, when it comes to the various clue you leave behind, do the heroes immediately pick up on them (assuming they to recognize them for what they are) when they're in the same POI when it happens, or do they have to be looking for these clues at the time for them to notice, like if they were just "passing through" when something suspicious happens, they don't react, but if they were doing a quest in that POI or looking for an agent, they would? Also, when a hero with a clue dies or gets corrupted, what happens to the clue itself? Do they destroy the clue or does it get "dropped" for someone else to find?
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Vgray

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #263 on: September 08, 2014, 01:59:07 am »

Posting to watch. Wait, what's that you say? No necromancer Old One? Preposterous!  :P
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GobbieMarauder

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #264 on: September 08, 2014, 06:12:59 am »

I find the map appealing, personally. If I were to add anything, it would be splotches of black ink where there's been strife (war, famine, disease, unrest, etc). All the best evil overlords make the world a blacker place by literally blackening the map (that or burning sections of it, but that doesn't seem practical in this context).

My big question is about winning. We've seen Azlan's ritual thing, but do any of the other gods have unique win conditions? Are there generic win conditions they all share? How many skulls does my skull throne need for the game to clap it's hands and go "good enough?"
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KingDinosaurGames

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #265 on: September 08, 2014, 01:47:12 pm »

DEMO - definitely not making it before Kickstarter.  Once we have the whole KS campaign up and running I get to finally get back to it.  It, and the prerequisites for it (mostly bug reports on recent features), is the highest priority after running the KS.

Clues aren't really picked up (I know I keep using that phrasing) they are simply "perceived", and they remain there as well with some degradation from being perceived by a hero.  In other words, an Identity clue dropped by The Rake performing an Infiltration act has a Strength and a Complexity - its strength declines over time and once it is at 0 it vanishes.  High strength is easier to perceive, so if the crime was just committed anyone (relatively) will be able to see it, after 4-5 turns only a master investigator would be able to act on it. 

Heroes have a passive ability to perceive clues and can also search - so if a hero is "Hunting an Unknown Agent" they will perform two very important actions 1) Search a POI for clues and 2) Inquire with other Heroes if they have any clues of that Agent.  Passively the strength has to be quite high, but certain clues and hero's(abilities) have a great sympathy.  Diviners (a mid-tier class of the Sage archetype) have a high ability to find Prophecy clues, for instance. 

If they die, all their clues are lost - if they haven't told anyone else then it's essentially gone forever.  There is a SINGULAR exception to this where heroes can summon up the dead, but it is pretty buggy right now and may get cut.  If you corrupt an agent you can instruct him to spread misinformation as long as he remains a passive corrupted agent (you haven't activated him to the main map).

Necromancer Old One (he has abilties over Undeath and Disease) will absolutely be the full release - he is just so absurdly broken right now that we didn't want to spend more time getting him ready for the initial release.

Black Ink splotch is an interesting idea, we may explore that - we had ORIGINALLY darkened the ambient light on the map, and the ncities/villages each had a light source.  As you corrupted them, their light source dimmed and you left the world in shadow.  It didn't really work out so well, but some variation of that may return.

Burning the map would be awesome - if we had actual resources to develop our maps art style that would have been a great aesthetic choice. 

Their are several ways to win, but most of them do not have "win conditions", what they have is special conditions that essentially guarantee a win - these particular actions will be challenged greatly by the heroes and the Alliance if they know your identity.  It IS possible for them to think you are a different old one and try to stop a win condition that doesn't apply.
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Vgray

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #266 on: September 08, 2014, 03:35:31 pm »

Bets for how long it will take someone to make a Middle Earth scenario for this after release?
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Jalak

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #267 on: September 09, 2014, 01:31:45 am »

Okay, now I've gotten a bit confused; are you saying the demo is being released during the kickstarter, or after it? Also, is the kickstarter going to be the sort where it's basically an early access, where donating gets you an unfinished copy?

Edit: Just had a thought about hero corruption/possession. You implied that the process is reversible. If that's true, then what are the consequences for the heroes post-darkness, if any? Do they have a generally lower will, no friends anymore, a criminal record or bounty left over from their time messing with everyone else?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 05:32:07 am by Jalak »
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nenjin

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #268 on: September 09, 2014, 10:43:16 am »

This will doubtless be covered in upcoming videos, but I figured I'd ask. You said you consider infiltration to be one of the most important things you do with your time. You also said that limited actions per turn, trade offs and cost-benefit analysis of actions was part of the game's strategy.

So in a turn you have 1 or more but not many actions. Is one of those actions "Send crows to this POI and start Infiltration Level 1?" Can that basic level of infiltration ever get rooted out by heroes? Does it decay over time? Because it seems to me infiltration if it has to constantly be reestablished at the most basic level will get a little tedious, and eat up a lot of actions just for the sake of not being blind. While true, maybe blindness (rather than all-seeing-knowingness of most 4x fantasy games) is part of the tactical appeal and theme (the Fellowship was often hidden from Sauron's direct sight), it's also something that can prove crippling to the overall enjoyment of the strategy. For example, starting a challenge and getting blind-sided by a hero you didn't know was there because you can't afford to spend most/all of your actions per turn shoring up your infiltration.
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Jalak

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Re: That which sleeps- in development
« Reply #269 on: September 09, 2014, 10:51:22 am »

To add on to what the above just said, when infiltrations and other rituals get interrupted by heroes and the like, do you need to get rid of them to continue the "countdown" of the action, or can you continue so long as the guy doing it is still alive by next turn (so I could, theoretically, cast a meteor spell in the middle of a intense battle)?
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