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Author Topic: Fallout 4: It Just Works  (Read 810971 times)

Krevsin

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #255 on: June 05, 2015, 02:54:06 am »

Touche on the brotherhood and enclave part, but the supermutants I believe kinda had to be there for this to constitute an actual Fallout game since they're a big part of the setting.

So I guess Bethesda were in fact playing it safe (and uninspired, save for a few bits and pieces) with FO3's setting. Oh well, hopefully they'll try something new with FO4.
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Andres

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #256 on: June 05, 2015, 03:47:03 am »

This is Fallout, War Never Changes, we just find the new evil and kill that.
In the grim darkness of the two-point-third millennium, war never changes.
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Harry Baldman

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #257 on: June 05, 2015, 04:27:57 am »

In regards to the nitpicks, wasn't it stated somewhere that the bombs used in the War were more of a neutron-bombish kind of thing, more aimed at depopulation and irradiation than destroying infrastructure? Then again, that's not what the intros to the games imply (if not outright say), so who knows?

Touche on the brotherhood and enclave part, but the supermutants I believe kinda had to be there for this to constitute an actual Fallout game since they're a big part of the setting.

So I guess Bethesda were in fact playing it safe (and uninspired, save for a few bits and pieces) with FO3's setting. Oh well, hopefully they'll try something new with FO4.

The super mutants didn't have to be there, either. They were barely there in Fallout 2, weren't they? Pretty much Broken Hills plus a random encounter.

The strange thing about Fallout 3 is that they try to recycle both Fallout 1 and 2's plotlines, and confusingly enough the actual menace in the Capital Wasteland, the super mutants lifted in all respects from Fallout 1 in terms of plot presence, is entirely incidental to the plot of the game - I mean, you even go to their place of origin, then proceed to do exactly nothing about it, because nobody really seems to care at that point beyond a simple mention to one of the scribes, I think, that "hey, Vault 87 is where the super mutants come from" and he's like "oh, cool, but let's get back to that Enclave thing".

I mean, it would have been pretty cool if they had recycled just Fallout 1's plot, or just Fallout 2's, because those are perfectly good plots to recycle, but they had to do some kind of confused middle ground where there's super mutants and their progressively succeeding assimilation plot, but no Master or Lieutenant (as in, actual villainous characters) to guide it and give the threat a face, there's the Enclave with their nutty schemes, but in an outside context kind of way where they just suddenly drop in (though I admit the radio station's foreshadowing that), and your dad's idea is the water chip plot hook from Fallout 1, but on a regional scale and sort of magical and dependent on the GECK, which I believe was described in Fallout 2 as having seeds in it, the knowledge to make sandcrete structures, fusion power generator schematics and stuff like that, but is described in Fallout 3 as the tribals talked about it in the very beginning - some kind of magical invention that'll solve all of the problems, and then they derail the Brotherhood of Steel from Fallout 1 to sort of tie the resulting mess together, with a nod toward the derailment in the form of the Outcasts. I understand why they did it - have to take everything that's Fallout and put it in the game (if superficially) to ensure some kind of continuity given the time that's passed. A way to mark their territory, so to speak.

Now, with Fallout 3 hopefully having gotten that territorial marking out of their system (unless they have the idea to have super mutants and the Enclave vie for center stage in the next game as well, and I sincerely hope they do not), they might actually be ready to produce something a little newer - I know the Institute sounds pretty cool, with androids and high tech and all that stuff. And that's something to be happy about, because Fallout 3 did get the style of the world right in a lot of the places, but the focus of its plot means the parts they did get right don't have quite enough development attention devoted to them.

EDIT: also, does anyone else get a strong Bioshock Infinite vibe from that trailer? Lots of color, airships, flashbacks, New England imagery... though I suppose Bioshock and Fallout have thematically highly similar settings with their retrofuturistic aesthetics.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 04:45:30 am by Harry Baldman »
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Neonivek

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #258 on: June 05, 2015, 04:53:06 am »

The Super Mutants in Fallout 3 were a cop out... but ehh it was alright all things considered.

It does SERIOUSLY confuse the lore though... But then again I guess it is kind of like how some Ghouls are zombies and some Ghouls are people.

But seriously... They can make up new stuff... Really Bethesda you can just... Invent new things, new factions, and all that.

Well ok... the fanboys will eat you alive... but honestly I won't care if there is a faction of say... Androids or specific robots.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 04:54:45 am by Neonivek »
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Putnam

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #259 on: June 05, 2015, 05:10:00 am »

there was already an android in fallout 3

he was from the Institute in the Commonwealth

AKA Boston

AKA exactly where Fallout 4 takes place

you even see an android in a trench coat in the trailer

Neonivek

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #260 on: June 05, 2015, 05:19:55 am »

I was already told that there was "apparently" an android in fallout 1 or 2
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Krevsin

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #261 on: June 05, 2015, 05:42:54 am »

Not that I'm aware of. Androids are a fully FO3 thing.

The super mutants didn't have to be there, either. They were barely there in Fallout 2, weren't they? Pretty much Broken Hills plus a random encounter.

The strange thing about Fallout 3 is that they try to recycle both Fallout 1 and 2's plotlines, and confusingly enough the actual menace in the Capital Wasteland, the super mutants lifted in all respects from Fallout 1 in terms of plot presence, is entirely incidental to the plot of the game - I mean, you even go to their place of origin, then proceed to do exactly nothing about it, because nobody really seems to care at that point beyond a simple mention to one of the scribes, I think, that "hey, Vault 87 is where the super mutants come from" and he's like "oh, cool, but let's get back to that Enclave thing".
Yeah, they were barely there in FO2, but what I meant is that they're to Fallout what orcs are to fantasy, i.e. non-human, almost entirely evil villains without any political strings attached, they're just kinda there to be killed by the player and pose a threat to the world around them.

I think the super mutants were supposed to be much more developed in FO3, but that got cut or changed somewhen during development.

EDIT: also, does anyone else get a strong Bioshock Infinite vibe from that trailer? Lots of color, airships, flashbacks, New England imagery... though I suppose Bioshock and Fallout have thematically highly similar settings with their retrofuturistic aesthetics.
I think that this is just Bethesda following modern trends in graphics since it's kinda popular to have actually colourful settings and imagery (Witcher 3, Bioshock: Infinite, et cetera). You know, like they did with FO3 and colour filters.
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Putnam

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #262 on: June 05, 2015, 05:44:16 am »

The super mutants didn't have to be there, either. They were barely there in Fallout 2, weren't they? Pretty much Broken Hills plus a random encounter.

The strange thing about Fallout 3 is that they try to recycle both Fallout 1 and 2's plotlines, and confusingly enough the actual menace in the Capital Wasteland, the super mutants lifted in all respects from Fallout 1 in terms of plot presence, is entirely incidental to the plot of the game - I mean, you even go to their place of origin, then proceed to do exactly nothing about it, because nobody really seems to care at that point beyond a simple mention to one of the scribes, I think, that "hey, Vault 87 is where the super mutants come from" and he's like "oh, cool, but let's get back to that Enclave thing".
Yeah, they were barely there in FO2, but what I meant is that they're to Fallout what orcs are to fantasy, i.e. non-human, almost entirely evil villains without any political strings attached, they're just kinda there to be killed by the player and pose a threat to the world around them.

yes, this is true if you completely ignore everything that isn't fallout 3

Harry Baldman

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #263 on: June 05, 2015, 06:39:38 am »

I was already told that there was "apparently" an android in fallout 1 or 2

Don't know who that could be. Skynet from Fallout 2 maybe, but that's not an android, but instead a robobrain. There was a ZAX computer in the Glow that was a sentient computer. K9 was a cyberdog, as was another cyberdog that I believe was only called Cyberdog. Maybe Dogmeat's secretly a robot.

there was already an android in fallout 3

he was from the Institute in the Commonwealth

AKA Boston

AKA exactly where Fallout 4 takes place

you even see an android in a trench coat in the trailer

This is what makes me hopeful - they've paid pretty much all the lip service they reasonably could to the first two Fallouts, so now they can do their own thing much more freely, I'm thinking the logic goes.

Yeah, they were barely there in FO2, but what I meant is that they're to Fallout what orcs are to fantasy, i.e. non-human, almost entirely evil villains without any political strings attached, they're just kinda there to be killed by the player and pose a threat to the world around them.

I think the super mutants were supposed to be much more developed in FO3, but that got cut or changed somewhen during development.

Well, in the first Fallout they were what you would get if you took an orc, fed it a lot of steroids until ordinary weapons didn't do anything against it and gave it weaponry that could flatten you for pretty much the entire game before you got yourself some power armor. And their leader, the Master, had the intent of bringing about Unity, which would end strife, hunger and difficulty to survive in the wasteland, although at the expense of individuality. Not a strictly evil goal, and you can actually talk him out of it by pointing out the critical flaw in his plan. Not evil, just misguided and with minions often, but not always lacking in intelligence. And in Fallout 2 they're regular, if oversized and overpowered people who happen to have been part of the aforementioned plan and responsible for a somewhat horrendous amount of murder and abduction, but otherwise a generally okay lot (except for the remnants of the Master's army - those guys are assholes, and also considerably more dangerous than Deathclaws).

So not orcs at all - in fact, it's raiders (also slavers in 2) who get the orc designation in the first fallouts, and are generally 'lesser orcs' in Fallout 3, though in both of the first games they represent somewhat difficult encounters that start off the Equipment Cascade where you have a steadily growing amount of equipment that you can only sell off piece by piece because nobody has enough money to buy it all. And because of their non-orc nature it's a shame the super mutants didn't get a fair shake in the middle of all that setting referencing that Fallout 3 was doing, since unlike raiders they are a genuinely interesting enemy in the original games - stupidly powerful and actually quite intriguing once you get their backstory. They could have even thrown in some more fleshwarped things into the mix and added some Children of the Cathedral descendants or something, to have creepy cultists atop the more threatening super mutants.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 07:24:39 am by Harry Baldman »
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Virtz

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #264 on: June 05, 2015, 11:04:42 am »

EDIT: also, does anyone else get a strong Bioshock Infinite vibe from that trailer? Lots of color, airships, flashbacks, New England imagery... though I suppose Bioshock and Fallout have thematically highly similar settings with their retrofuturistic aesthetics.
I think that this is just Bethesda following modern trends in graphics since it's kinda popular to have actually colourful settings and imagery (Witcher 3, Bioshock: Infinite, et cetera). You know, like they did with FO3 and colour filters.
I think it's also the gratuitous use of bloom, flares and godrays. Maybe low-contrast shading as well. Can't say I liked the look in Infinite. Though looking at screenshots of Infinite, then at the teaser, FO4 doesn't look as bad, I feel.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 11:13:22 am by Virtz »
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Flying Dice

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #265 on: June 05, 2015, 11:35:42 am »

They might have actually found a happy medium. Apart from Bethesda's potato-people and decade-old console-pandering textures.
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Neonivek

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #266 on: June 05, 2015, 12:40:33 pm »

Yeah... Fallout 1 and 2 is kind of interesting

Fallout 1 has the better plot

Fallout 2 has the better open world experience (and a terrible plot... Probably the worst in the series)

Yet Fallout 2 is still considered the better game.
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Harry Baldman

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #267 on: June 05, 2015, 01:20:43 pm »

Fallout 2 is simply more fun than Fallout 1 (and doesn't have that unsettling time limit that hangs over your head the entire game), and it's not quite universally better-liked than Fallout 1 for a few reasons, including but limited to the ones listed below.

And it having a worse plot than Fallout 3 is a matter of opinion. I'd lean toward it having a better one mostly because Fallout 3 kind of uses the same one (to be precise, it tacks on the inferior second half of Fallout 2's plot to the inferior first half of Fallout 1's plot, not getting the nicer bits of either one), and it loses a bit of its novelty.

The main flaw in Fallout 2 is that it has a much more uneven world than 1, 3 or New Vegas. The first sections - Arroyo, Klamath, the Den - keep a decent level of consistency, but then you get to Redding, New Reno, Navarro, NCR and San Francisco that have wild shifts in tone and themes. It didn't have enough editorial oversight, and I do believe Black Isle's people have admitted this at least once. And the Enclave is pretty ridiculous as well.
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umiman

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #268 on: June 05, 2015, 01:35:27 pm »

AFAIK there is a time limit in Fallout 2 too. The medicine man will pop up in dreams telling you to hurry the fuck up every once in awhile.

Neonivek

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Re: Fallout 4: Hype Never Changes
« Reply #269 on: June 05, 2015, 01:42:58 pm »

I actually don't mind its shift of themes and tones. It is what makes exploring more interesting.

It is why Morrowind was more fun to explore then say... Oblivion.
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