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Which team did you play in the last game?

Glorious Arstotzka
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Author Topic: Intercontinental Arms Race: Finale  (Read 573579 times)

10ebbor10

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4245 on: June 23, 2017, 08:29:36 am »

Specifically, you said that the massive advantage was only done turn one because you had no navy, and then made the assumption that was no longer possible as long as you had any navy at all.  That is the assumption that was wrong.

I'm quite certain  I never made that assumption.

I went through my old posts, and I can't find it.

My argument rests on 2 things :
1) Naval dominance is not in the rules
2) Naval dominance in turn 1 is functionally identical to major naval advantage, and hence not evidence of naval dominance existing.

Requires us to be able to reach cannala with our air force, which we currently cannot.

Time for a Doolittle raid?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 08:34:20 am by 10ebbor10 »
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4246 on: June 23, 2017, 08:35:09 am »

So if my "Unity" Tiger Armor revision used 2 titanium and 1 aluminum it would remain cheap right?  I am thinking trying to up the armor without increasing weight and fixing some of the coverage issues.

Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4247 on: June 23, 2017, 08:40:13 am »

Hmm. Their Khorne, though, is definitely intended as a 'big' ship, not a fast one. Making something lighter than it has advantages beyond merely the cost. (Which you've done, so I guess I like it)
Although, you're still trying to upgrade our torpedoes.

Indeed the design does.  Have removed them.  Given the torpedoes are still air-based ones, it is likely that they don't have sufficient range.
Though...we could mount a Sarukh as a replacement for them...
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Light forger

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4248 on: June 23, 2017, 08:44:55 am »

UFSS-41-A "Siren"
The siren is the first of a new type of sea faring vessel to Forenia(but, not the rest of the world) a submarine. The siren is powered by four V12 diesel engines which are slight modified versions of the ones used by the T33. These engines rather then directly power the engines are hooked up to electric generators which power battery pack within the ship and by extension the electric motor that drives the propeller. This power plant lets the siren stay underwater for an extended period before needing to come up to recharge it's battery pack. The siren is armed with four fore torpedo tubes currently using the dolphin torpedo but, they could be easily altered to fit larger torpedoes. It also has a deck armament of one bumblebee deck gun and twin 20mm auto cannons, the deck cannon can be used to both sink unarmed enemy vessels and AAA with the auto cannons serving to deal with low flying aircraft and pt boats. The hull is compartmentalized to deal with possible breaches to the hull as future proofing even if the enemy currently lack depth charges. Overall the siren is fairly small but, offers solid firepower and great endurance at the cost of speed due to it's small power plant.

We should have quite a bit of the tech need for the engine from all our radio/radar stuff(how would they run without generators and batteries?). Meaning we aren't that far off. Yes it will need a 5 or a 6 knowing our luck but, if we roll a 4 or 3 let alone a 1 or 2 we are screwed anyway. Further more Sensei has hinted that subs could mess with naval transports and removing the ore they just got even if it's only for a turn or two is a really big deal. In case no one learned the lesson from their battle-cruiser, if we roll out a new ship they will just make one better in every way the following turn. With submarine we at least have a roughly even playing field(still favoring them but, that's the breaks in naval matters).
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4249 on: June 23, 2017, 08:48:23 am »

Quote from: UFS-CL-41 Pattern C 'Paladin Class' Cruiser
In response to the Forenian navy's wishes for a screening ship that doesn't die when the enemy gives it a mean look, the Cavalier class is designed to provide a much more solid screen ship that can actually handle combat without sinking. Using a scheme built off of all or nothing armour, the ships armour is heaviest on the citadel and magazines, being tough enough to resist the cannalan 6" shells. The deck is layered in two armour layers; one a a sacrificial layer to set off bombs and a second as splinter protection to keep most of the crew safe from bomb/shell shrapnel. The rest of the ship it still armoured; primarily against 3" cannons to prevent 'anklebiters' sinking the ship. Furthermore, the ship is highly compartmentalised; experience from the archer shows that the two leading causes of a 'ship kill' are flooding and an ammo explosion.

The Armament of the ship is all located within the citadel, the primary armament being twelve 'compensator' cannons, downsized from the overcompensator's 300mm to 150mm, in six turrets arranged into superfiring positions at the front and back of the citadel.  The turrets have a narrowing number of guns, the two closest to the citadel having three guns, the second closest having two per, and the outermost only having one per, in an effort to reduce the bulk of the ship while keeping the same number of guns.  Along with this, eight Bumblebee guns are mounted in two-gun dual purpose turrets, positioned to provide optimum anti-air and anti small ship coverage, as well as being retained in the armoured citadel to protect their magazines.  The interior is compartmentalized, with sections easily able to be sealed off to prevent flooding.

The ship is also has two Sarukh arrays, one at each of the extreme ends of the ship, that are used to deploy smoke to obscure Archers class ships from enemy forces.

Thought on revision: we go for getting Bumblebee targeting computers for all artillery, or we go for boosting the autocannon rate of fire and/or penetrating power.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 01:08:10 pm by Zanzetkuken The Great »
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Taricus

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4250 on: June 23, 2017, 08:54:07 am »

Bumblebee computers are for anti-air, not anti-ship. They are for two fundamentally different purposes. We need a proper naval targeting computer.
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4251 on: June 23, 2017, 08:57:11 am »

Bumblebee computers are for anti-air, not anti-ship. They are for two fundamentally different purposes. We need a proper naval targeting computer.

Then we adapt them to general purpose artillery weapon targeting when we do so.  And it wouldn't just be for sea, it would be to boost land artillery and maybe our tanks as well.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4252 on: June 23, 2017, 08:58:37 am »

I decided to collate all our designs so far :

Spoiler: Lots of stuff (click to show/hide)
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evictedSaint

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1941 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #4253 on: June 23, 2017, 09:00:48 am »

Considering part of the problem for our ships is their own independent radar and our shore batteries are lacking, the Radar Revamp could promise to be very helpful prior ro going for the ship design.  Proximity flak fuses, better Overcompensator targetting, and the ability for ships and aircraft to carry their own radar, and ships using radar for targetting like Cannala does.


Quote
Design:  RDN-39-3 "DEADLIEST RAY"
The most notable advancement by the Radar Defense Network Mk. 3 "Deadliest Ray" is the invention of the cavity magnetron.  Leaps and bounds smaller than the primitive radar installations currently used on land and sea by the Forenian Army, it is the culmination of several years of research and multiple attempts to improve the radar system itself.

This system is small enough to move from dedicated Cargo-Radar ships to being mounted in the command towers of military naval ships without sacrificing the turret stations.  It is small enough to be mounted on mobile trucks and SPAAG's for in-field radar detection and even mounted aboard a Reckless Effect (or Ice Giant, if space is not permitting) in order to provide mobile air-based radar command stations for arial operations.  Rather than an entire battery of Overcompensator Shore Defense systems relying on a single radar installation, each may be mounted with its own radar system.

A by-product of this new invention is the invention of an ESM - an Electronic Support Measure.  Simply a radar system without an emitter, this allows a detector to passively detect in-coming radiation and determine the bearing of the signal relative to the craft.  Small enough to be mounted aboard either the Thunderbird or Haast, this allows scout-craft to detect enemy radar, increasing the range of detection of our ships on the sea as we should be able to home in on the enemies ship-borne radar.

This passive detection can also be concievably used for proximity fuses in flak shells or for homing devices in missiles, but for the moment this design focuses on miniaturizing the size of our radar and mounting it on our existing systems, with a minor goal of isolating the detector portion of the radar for ESM warfare.


Opens the way for proximity fuses, helps us on both land and sea, gives us a route for guided weapons, and it's all done by simply researching a time-period appropriate tech in a field we've fiddled with three times before now.  Hell, it may even help the Overcompensator by giving each gun its own radar.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 09:04:30 am by evictedSaint »
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4254 on: June 23, 2017, 09:18:09 am »

Considering part of the problem for our ships is their own independent radar and our shore batteries are lacking, the Radar Revamp could promise to be very helpful prior ro going for the ship design.  Proximity flak fuses, better Overcompensator targetting, and the ability for ships and aircraft to carry their own radar, and ships using radar for targetting like Cannala does.

Even the absolute best of the best radar won't make the current Archer any better.  It's prior advantage was its raw numbers, but now that no longer exists.  And as much as we may want to rail against it, Sensei seems to be using slugging matches between ships, so air alone will not do everything for us.  We need something better than what we have.
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evictedSaint

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4255 on: June 23, 2017, 09:21:17 am »

Yeah...we're going to have to spend the next five turns building up a navy in order to catch Cannala.  Let's hope they don't build any more futuristic synctorotor attack helicopters in that time.

Madman198237

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4256 on: June 23, 2017, 09:28:12 am »

This whole naval advantage thing needs to get screwed over. We need a new jet fighter.

I'm not kidding. If Cannala wants to hold the sea, let's screw them over. If we have "Massive Air Advantage" they can't land, regardless of their naval superiority. You physically cannot shoot down a jet with a 12 inch gun battery. Physics doesn't work like that. Basically, if WE destroy them in the air, suddenly we can't be attacked. This turn, we put out a ridiculous jet fighter. Next turn, perhaps we do the Turbohaast, as it would give us unequaled CAS/air attack capability.

We lost the sea because we couldn't control the air. We're supposed to be working aircraft, hence the air general, yet we've let them basically equal us with their jet fighter. We need to destroy the competition. They tossed a 12 inch gunned battlecruiser at their advantage for two purposes: Shore bombardment, and to protect their advantage. And it worked. We won't be catching their advantage any time soon.

So we deploy a new jet fighter, and suddenly they can't compete. We get full use of all our aircraft again. This allows us to happily go back to sinking them all. Plus, at this point, we need to get a bonus to aircraft design. I don't care how unreasonable, the Cannalan Santos is evidently equal to a late-war US fleet carrier, which is absurd, obviously, and so we evidently can't beat it, even with a Cheap carrier and a VE carrier. So, we need to build the underdog's fighter. If they're going to reliably outnumber us, well, too bad. We'll just outfight them. This is what our air general does---allows to be better in the air. So let's use our air general to beat their sea general, not let their sea general do what he wants because we've accidentally given up our air advantage. I'm going to post this to let people think on it, and come back with a better-informed aircraft design.
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evictedSaint

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4257 on: June 23, 2017, 09:32:37 am »

Nah, if J-CATCH is to be believed, then Cannala will upgrade their helicopters (and thanks to Azzuro throwing a temper tantrum, we KNOW they know about J-CATCH).

Sheb

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4258 on: June 23, 2017, 09:42:18 am »

J-CATCH?
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1941 (Design Phase)
« Reply #4259 on: June 23, 2017, 09:44:14 am »

Helicopter v Jet experiments.
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