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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 411572 times)

KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1035 on: October 06, 2018, 09:03:59 pm »


Will the deities made in world gen ever demand an amount of worship, and if that amount is not met, will they send catastrophic events to the fortress?
Probably? Common in fantasy stories, so depending on the world.
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George_Chickens

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1036 on: October 07, 2018, 03:24:24 am »

I have a question about general development, if that's appropriate. Once a feature fails to meet a deadline, is it permanently abandoned, or simply put on the backburner? What is the plan to deal with features that could not be implemented due to deadlines?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1037 on: October 07, 2018, 03:38:49 am »

I have a question about general development, if that's appropriate. Once a feature fails to meet a deadline, is it permanently abandoned, or simply put on the backburner? What is the plan to deal with features that could not be implemented due to deadlines?
Everything in the devnotes are features due to be implemented. Things that were put off (like procgen tavern games) will get looked at next time that area of the game gets looked at (Economy probably which will look at poverty and gambling. Maybe earlier if there's a need for gamblers to be wandering the world to make some other feature work more smoothly).

Like all future features of the game, there's almost certainly no timetable, like 'handle that in 2022'.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 03:41:35 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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Real_bang

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1038 on: October 07, 2018, 04:01:51 am »

Will there be genitals introduced? I know its kinda childish question but it would be cool to kick elfs right in to
their elven woodsacks or torturing someone using the same method.
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1039 on: October 07, 2018, 04:03:21 am »

Will there be genitals introduced? I know its kinda childish question but it would be cool to kick elfs right in to
their elven woodsacks or torturing someone using the same method.

Toady is aversed to such things.
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Real_bang

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1040 on: October 07, 2018, 04:06:48 am »

Will there be genitals introduced? I know its kinda childish question but it would be cool to kick elfs right in to
their elven woodsacks or torturing someone using the same method.

Toady is aversed to such things.
Can you please then say what did he answer.
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1041 on: October 07, 2018, 04:09:49 am »

Will there be genitals introduced? I know its kinda childish question but it would be cool to kick elfs right in to
their elven woodsacks or torturing someone using the same method.

Toady is aversed to such things.
Can you please then say what did he answer.
I just heard that he is averse to adding genitals. Any questions?
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Robsoie

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1042 on: October 07, 2018, 04:28:37 am »

Toady is aversed to such things.
Still he added gelding strikes in battle.
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1043 on: October 07, 2018, 05:06:50 am »

Toady is aversed to such things.
Still he added gelding strikes in battle.
I meant that he's averse to adding genitals as body parts rather than abstractions like gelding strikes.
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Urlance Woolsbane

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1044 on: October 07, 2018, 05:17:23 am »

Will there be genitals introduced? I know its kinda childish question but it would be cool to kick elfs right in to
their elven woodsacks or torturing someone using the same method.

To elaborate on what KittyTac said, Tarn doesn't want DF getting a reputation as a filth simulator. It's for this reason he hasn't added feces, and I assume the same applies to genitals. One Obok Meatgod was bad enough. There's no point in encouraging that sort of behavior.
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George_Chickens

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1045 on: October 07, 2018, 07:09:23 am »

The last thing I remember him saying on the topic was "I really do not want DF to become 'That game with those pissing and shitting and raping dwarfs'. So he tends to avoid bodily functions and sensitive topics all together.
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Real_bang

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1046 on: October 07, 2018, 12:50:22 pm »

The last thing I remember him saying on the topic was "I really do not want DF to become 'That game with those pissing and shitting and raping dwarfs'. So he tends to avoid bodily functions and sensitive topics all together.
I see. I understand his point of view and respect it but you can already do some disgusting stuff in df (like kill someone's kid and bash its parent with its head to death) and noone says that df is that game where you murder children etc. Everyone says that its a great game though.

Also very nice presentation Toady, it was a pleasure to watch.
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Death Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1047 on: October 07, 2018, 06:31:09 pm »

Toady held a 30-40 min presentation at Roguelike Celebration today:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/319619527?t=00h07m51s

He talks about why villains became the focus of the current update and gives a possible example of how a villain network and its causes and effects could look like.
He also says that letting the player become a villain with the ability of sending people around to cause trouble should not require much work to implement.
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Thundercraft

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1048 on: October 08, 2018, 12:28:19 am »

To elaborate on what KittyTac said, Tarn doesn't want DF getting a reputation as a filth simulator. It's for this reason he hasn't added feces, and I assume the same applies to genitals.

"I assume"? Are you sure that is not reading too much into it? Anyway, body parts are limited to text names / descriptions, which are abstract. It's not like DF would ever end up displaying graphics of such parts, in 3D or otherwise.

As a text roguelike, the details are abstract as one needs to use their imagination. As such, combat and events which would definitely earn a "Mature" game rating as a 3D simulator are not that scary/repulsive. They can even be humorous.

The last thing I remember him saying on the topic was "I really do not want DF to become 'That game with those pissing and shitting and raping dwarfs'. So he tends to avoid bodily functions and sensitive topics all together.

I continue to be amazed at the increasing level of depth that the fantasy world simulator called "Dwarf Fortress" is evolving into with every major release. Though, I agree that simulating excrement and urine is going too far. There's just no point. I'm sure the number of games which have included such (or even just bathroom breaks) could be counted on one hand.

Simulating rape is another thing that would (obviously) be too controversial and going too far. If nothing else, that'd make it an adult game.

However, these days, we find words like "breasts", "ovaries" and "penis" all over the place, including news headlines and mentions in daytime shows. These are medical terms. These days, there's very little negative connotation. We live in an age where women march wearing giant vagina hats as a form of protest and this is shown on TV. Once upon a time, saying such terms in public was considered vulgar. But I think society is past that.

I see. I understand his point of view and respect it but you can already do some disgusting stuff in df (like kill someone's kid and bash its parent with its head to death) and noone says that df is that game where you murder children etc. Everyone says that its a great game though.

Agreed. The combat log is bloody and gruesome, especially with children involved. It may even be enough to make some cringe. Despite that, DF popularity grows. Though, DF is a rather niche game. It's hard for many to learn and get into, which leaves out casual gamers.

I remember several years ago when there was a heated debate over the possibility of Toady adding sexual preferences and homosexuality. There were many on both sides, for and against. As I recall, one of the most common arguments against was that this would be too controversial. Most seemed to assume that this would never happen. Surprisingly, though, it did.

The reaction was underwhelming. There was not much reaction, negative or otherwise. It almost seems to have been forgotten at this point because I don't see it mentioned often.

My point is that we can't always predict what Toady will or won't eventually add. Nor can we always predict the reaction.

You may be interested to know that there used to be a mod which added genitals. Some older versions of Genesis Mod did this. There was even a mod loader which allowed players to customize it by toggling optional features like genitalia on or off.

Though, Deon decided to remove it in a later version. Since it involved raw changes to the civ races and a lot of creatures, I would imagine that maintaining it (i.e., keeping all those raws updated) was a real headache. But Deon made a good argument for genitalia:

Just penises and testicles to men and ovaries to women. But no worries, it's just a minor thing I do to bodies.

The main reason I do it is because I wanted to do it for a long time. I don't think that genitals are "wrong" in a game where you can dismember a kid and beat his parents with his corpse. It's just another bodypart which you can slash off (or lose) which adds to a realism a bit.

And Medicine Man points out an obvious flaw in modded genitals:

It still will be funny when you retire your neutered adventurer and you think "Lolwut?how did he get a kid?"

Genesis does show that genitals can be added via modding. However, I do not believe it is possible to connect a gelding strike with the loss or injury of modded genitals. Nor do I believe it is possible to induce sterility after the loss or injury of modded genitals. (A few years ago I had this idea of creating a syndrome which induced targeted necrosis of genitalia in Genesis. But, due to the above reasons, it seemed rather pointless.)

Modding has its limits. I believe connecting genitals with sterility is only be possible if Toady added them. And, judging by the reaction of adding sexual preferences, the reaction would probably be mild or underwhelming.
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1049 on: October 08, 2018, 12:46:49 am »

I'm against that, because it would literally add nothing and Toady's time is best spent on other things.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 01:02:00 am by KittyTac »
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