Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Any interest in donations?

Yes
- 3 (23.1%)
No
- 3 (23.1%)
Maybe
- 7 (53.8%)

Total Members Voted: 13


Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 19

Author Topic: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)  (Read 48124 times)

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #90 on: November 27, 2018, 08:58:17 pm »

I was thinking more along the lines of what Revised does in the new version, where everything that's removed from the files is actually just commented out. But as long as I can restore clothing to how it's in the vanilla game, I'll be happy. I quite like the flavour the clothing variety in the base game brings (eg. in my desert fort I had all my dwarves dress up in togas), and really don't care about the bug associated with legwear because my dwarves practically never wear armour on top of regular clothing anyway (do people even do this? I just find it confusing to layer clothes and armour pieces as the mechanics behind it are very opaque in fortress mode, so I avoid it as best I can).

The issue stemmed from the padded leggings, really. I figured that people who conserve metal (and thus, don't forge mail skirts or lower plates if the lower body is already covered by torso armor) would get annoyed by padded pants getting damaged through breastplates as much as I am. Also, invaders always mix clothing with armor - and I know a lot of people don't even read the combat logs, but I do and I hate it when their loincloth gets torn despite being supposedly covered by armor! :P

May try the comment thing, though. I'm a little hesistant because of how much clutter it will create in the entity files, but we'll see.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 07:31:17 am by Sver »
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Burneddi

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #91 on: November 28, 2018, 10:20:45 am »

The issue stemmed from the padded leggings, really. I figured that people who conserve metal (and thus, don't forge mail skirts or lower plates if the lower body is already covered by torso armor) would get annoyed by padded pants getting damaged through breastplates as much as I am.
Oh, right. For some reason I did not even realise this applied to armour pants, too, even though I went through the raws to merge the new version of Revised.

I gotta say I just don't like the thought of my dwarves not wearing pants, and I think it makes the armour coverage/layering system even more confusing and unintuitive than it already was (what covers the legs now? I see some things are designated as "fake pants" in the raws, but not everything) ...but on the other hand I also don't like the thought of going through the trouble of adding pants into the mod myself. Guess I'll just have to get used to it.

Also, don't breastplates have LBSTEP:0? They shouldn't be protecting loincloths in the first place, right?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 10:29:08 am by Burneddi »
Logged

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #92 on: November 28, 2018, 11:11:45 am »

I gotta say I just don't like the thought of my dwarves not wearing pants, and I think it makes the armour coverage/layering system even more confusing and unintuitive than it already was (what covers the legs now?

It is, indeed, confusing, but mostly because the initial solution (as in v1.4) is half-baked. With the simplified clothing it should get pretty straightforward. For now the 'clothes' item is what you want to make sure your dwarves have pants - it's set to FORCED by default, so it should always be available for crafting. The dwarven need to wear legwear is satisfied by the 'belt' item - which is also set to FORCED.
For armor, legs are to be covered with footwear usually: greaves, chain chausses and padded chausses; but only one type of garment, because the AI can't comprehend putting greaves over chausses, for some reason.
And then 'padded armor' also covers the legs fully. The reason why other padded bodywears (gambeson, doublet) do not is a complex one: padded garments are more vulnerable at limbs that at the torso, so I've gave them varied coverage to allow the player to create cleverly layered uniforms: say, a 'gambeson' over a 'padded armor' will not suffer any damage from strikes to the limbs, so the torso will still be somewhat protected even after the 'padded armor' breaks completely; and at the same time, 'gambeson' will take damage from strikes to the torso, delaying the disintegration of 'padded armor'.

Also, don't breastplates have LBSTEP:0? They shouldn't be protecting loincloths in the first place, right?

[LBSTEP:0] bodywear still covers the lower body. In the combat log, it will even say "the attack is deflected by breastplate", yet the loincloth will suffer damage. The same thing will happen no matter how high the LBSTEP value is. As I said, it's weird all around.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 11:26:09 am by Sver »
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Burneddi

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #93 on: November 28, 2018, 01:16:43 pm »

Do you happen to have older versions of the mod available? I'm itching to play some DF and am thinking of cobbling together a pants-enabled version for myself, and using the old pants as a base for that would probably make it a lot easier. The last version I have is 1.2.1, so I seem to have missed 1.3 entirely.
Logged

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #94 on: November 28, 2018, 01:59:51 pm »

Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Augur

  • Bay Watcher
  • remove-stress
    • View Profile
    • Twitch
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #95 on: November 28, 2018, 02:13:47 pm »

Hey I've been playing this for the last couple days and it's been good. A few questions though: some weapons like a horned axe I have, have multiple types of attacks that seem to be the same thing (eg hack, cleave, cleanly slash), is that the case or are there differences I don't know about?

Then, I'm not sure if this is normal but I ended up defeating a necromancer tower using my horned axe mainly, and have like ~80 kills on it, though I don't seem to have increased my greatarms skill (1/3 gain from competent) or axeman skill (at all)? My crossbow and archery skills seem to be going up normally (as did my butcher skill a fair bit lol)

Also for the moment I've been using this as my general armor setup for my adventurers, I think Im doing everything correctly?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
For all of this I just generally go with the highest quality material I can use which I assume is tempered/dwarven steel though I've read that it's useful to have copper as an under layer to defend against striking blows?
Logged

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #96 on: November 28, 2018, 02:42:15 pm »

Hey I've been playing this for the last couple days and it's been good. A few questions though: some weapons like a horned axe I have, have multiple types of attacks that seem to be the same thing (eg hack, cleave, cleanly slash), is that the case or are there differences I don't know about?

Yes, there are some: 'hack' attacks are better at piercing armor, 'cleave' attacks go in deeper (good against huge creatures), 'slash' attacks have the highest combined contact and penetration (very good against huge creatures) and 'cleanly slash' attacks are shallow, but almost never get stuck in the opponent. In case of the horned axe, though, the 'slash' works more like the 'cleanly slash' does.

Then, I'm not sure if this is normal but I ended up defeating a necromancer tower using my horned axe mainly, and have like ~80 kills on it, though I don't seem to have increased my greatarms skill (1/3 gain from competent) or axeman skill (at all)?

The weapon skill for horned axe is set correctly in the raws, as I've checked, so the reason is most likely an in-game one. For instance, the skill rises with each successful hit - not the kills, if i recall correctly, so, if you've dealt each zombie in with a tiny amount of strikes, that might be the culprit of the small gain here.

Also for the moment I've been using this as my general armor setup for my adventurers, I think Im doing everything correctly?

Yep, quite a legit uniform, at least, for when you cannot find plate garment of good metal. If you happen across a decent 'plate armor' or 'breastplate', they are generally lighter and more protective than a lamellar armor over two mail coats; even more so for arm and leg protection (gauntlets, greaves and such), because those parts are more vulnerable to blunt trauma.

cave spider silk padded coif/armor
1 chain coif, helm (heaven found full helm to see if it layers)

A full helm wont layer over both the padded coif and mail coif - if you happen to find a full helm, then choose one.

For all of this I just generally go with the highest quality material I can use which I assume is tempered/dwarven steel though I've read that it's useful to have copper as an under layer to defend against striking blows?

Dwarven steel is absolute best for armor, tempered steel and (regular) steel closely follow. But yes, copper chainmail garments underneath the steel ones can strengthen this uniform against the heavier blunt strikes somewhat.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 02:54:18 pm by Sver »
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Augur

  • Bay Watcher
  • remove-stress
    • View Profile
    • Twitch
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #97 on: November 28, 2018, 05:32:00 pm »

Oh also something I've noticed too -- shields seem to have an inordinate amount of wealth associated with them in comparison to the amount of bars that they need in construction?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Which is 8 bars of normal steel vs...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
5 bars of tempered steel (Which, if it were fine quality if I'm correct would come out to 2760?)

I know what I'd produce for trade atm if I made a fort rn

[EDIT] I just noticed a couple threads about enemies in adventure mode being really passive at times and to test it out I did a vampire mission and they just ran from me. That necromancer tower I dismantled, too, I noticed that the necromancers were more interested in raising chopped off bits of themselves and comrades than directly attacking me. Would that skill buff to enemies affect adventure mode behavior and, if so, I assume I'd have to make a new world right?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 01:05:38 am by Augur »
Logged

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #98 on: November 29, 2018, 06:38:44 am »

Yeah, the way the economy works in DF is rather bizarre for now (for instance, a sword's base price is solely tied to its weight), so I'm just ignoring it. Modded shields can easily be the prime export, although, they probably still cannot beat the infamous ☼quarry bush roast[64]☼.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 06:41:07 am by Sver »
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #99 on: November 29, 2018, 06:45:20 am »

[EDIT] I just noticed a couple threads about enemies in adventure mode being really passive at times and to test it out I did a vampire mission and they just ran from me. That necromancer tower I dismantled, too, I noticed that the necromancers were more interested in raising chopped off bits of themselves and comrades than directly attacking me. Would that skill buff to enemies affect adventure mode behavior and, if so, I assume I'd have to make a new world right?

Yep, that should help, at least, until your adventurer reaches a really high weapon skill level. It appears that the creature hostility in Adventure Mode is seriously impacted by their relative skill level - if they are much weaker than you, the enemies would rather flee.

And yes, applying these changes would require generating a new world.
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Augur

  • Bay Watcher
  • remove-stress
    • View Profile
    • Twitch
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #100 on: November 29, 2018, 10:02:12 pm »

Sorry for all the posts but I also just noticed that Wren harpies' race is noted as "Nothing", not sure if that's something I should post here or in Revised.
Logged

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #101 on: November 30, 2018, 05:57:37 am »

Revised - that's something from the 2.0.0. Probably some description tag is missing.
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Taffer

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #102 on: November 30, 2018, 06:01:54 pm »

Sorry for all the posts but I also just noticed that Wren harpies' race is noted as "Nothing", not sure if that's something I should post here or in Revised.

I'll fix that. I fixed that. If you have a preference about "wren harpy" vs "wren woman" and "wren harp" vs "wren man", I'd love to hear it (in the Revised thread).

Cheers!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 09:06:14 pm by Taffer »
Logged

Burneddi

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #103 on: December 04, 2018, 12:50:52 pm »

4) Suggested: replace/add flavor profession names to civilized creatures, as pikemen now don't only use pikes, bowmen don't only use bows and lashers don't really use lashes.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Random feedback on this: I thought that "greatarmsdwarf" sounded a bit silly, so personally I've gone with "armsdwarf" (and "armsman") instead, and "Armsmaster" for the master title. I'm not sure if it's historically accurate (I don't think there's any real definition for armsman though), but in the context of the game I think it sounds a lot better than greatarmsdwarf or -man.

Also flailsman loses its plural for the master title, so personally I went with Flailsmaster instead.
Logged

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.4)
« Reply #104 on: December 04, 2018, 01:12:49 pm »

Random feedback on this: I thought that "greatarmsdwarf" sounded a bit silly, so personally I've gone with "armsdwarf" (and "armsman") instead, and "Armsmaster" for the master title. I'm not sure if it's historically accurate (I don't think there's any real definition for armsman though), but in the context of the game I think it sounds a lot better than greatarmsdwarf or -man.

I don't mind people going their own way with these - I just suggested the ones I personally use. As for historical accuracy, neither "armsman" nor "greatarmsman" are an accurate way to describe some sort of "various two-handers user", because there were no generic terms for that. Though, "greatarmsman", as awkward as it is, at least makes it clear that "this guy uses big toys".

Also flailsman loses its plural for the master title, so personally I went with Flailsmaster instead.

I was going back and forth on that one, but, in the end, decided to follow the example of the swordsman/Swordmaster pair. I don't really know which is grammatically correct for flails in this context.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 01:18:11 pm by Sver »
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 19