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Author Topic: Dwarven Social Lives  (Read 24026 times)

GoblinCookie

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Re: Dwarven Social Lives
« Reply #150 on: August 03, 2018, 06:41:43 am »

No, GoblinCookie. It's over. It's perfectly understandable that you would want to salvage some dignity, but we're done here. You are intellectually disarmed, and ethically without a leg to stand on. And what's more, everyone knows it. It's time for you to accept it, and move on. This forum is not for debating the niceties of governmental overthrow, or for teaching the fundamentals of logical argument, or for exploring what "racism" means in a fantasy setting, or for discussing human rights. I was willing to humor you for a while, true--but the forum's patience, along with my own, has officially worn thin. That's why my last post was so punishing, and this one is so dismissive. Because not even I am listening to you any more.

Agreed, this thread has long since ground to a halt, so let's end this.  My last word I guess is that once again you are developing delusions that you represent more than just yourself.
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Detoxicated

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Re: Dwarven Social Lives
« Reply #151 on: August 03, 2018, 04:09:39 pm »

You guys reallya need to practice nonviolent conversation.
Also I would like to point out that if you tried to overthrow the governemnt you wouldn't get a second chance on account of human rights because as long as they keep your dignity in prison you can rot there for the rest of your life. Rights can be taken from you and it IS legitimized under the Human Rights...
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Dwarven Social Lives
« Reply #152 on: August 04, 2018, 05:51:08 am »

You guys reallya need to practice nonviolent conversation.
Also I would like to point out that if you tried to overthrow the governemnt you wouldn't get a second chance on account of human rights because as long as they keep your dignity in prison you can rot there for the rest of your life. Rights can be taken from you and it IS legitimized under the Human Rights...

That is indeed how things actually work.

But the whole idea of human rights was that they were rights you had on account of being human.
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hedgerow

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Re: Dwarven Social Lives
« Reply #153 on: February 04, 2022, 04:37:21 am »

Dwarves that like to hang by the river.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2022, 05:07:15 am by hedgerow »
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YashaAstora

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Re: Dwarven Social Lives
« Reply #154 on: January 27, 2023, 05:20:50 pm »

I wanted to make a topic along these lines but this already exists so I'll just post here.

I think Dwarves should not only be more social, they should be in conflict more often. As of now, the only times dwarves fight is either tantruming or getting into drunken bar brawls. I think this should be expanded upon. Two dwarves that already hold a grudge against each other may end up in a physical altercation similar to a bar brawl. It shouldn't be to the death--just bruising, minor cuts, MAYBE a broken bone if something goes wrong. Other dwarves nearby may either watch, avert their eyes and go away, try to pull the fight apart, run away and call the fortress guard if it exists, or even join in if they support one of the fighters. They can feel a variety of emotions from: they might find the fight thrilling, they might be scared because they don't like violence, they might feel that one side is justified, etc. If nearby stuff, Dwarves might grab these things and use them as misc. objects--for instance, beating their opponent with a mug.

These fights would not be crimes unless someone got seriously hurt--at best, the fortress guard will come in and break it up and send everyone way, and serial brawlers may suffer more severe punishments (I could go into a tangent about how the guard should do more than just beat people to death and/or jail them but that's for another time; I will say that being able to dodge and evade the fortress guard before they arrive would be neat though). Not only does this add flavor, it also means hospitals are useful for things other than just wars and tantrums. Also, dwarves wielding weapons such as soldiers or hunters should put them away, cast them aside, or at the very least NOT use them (with using weapons being a straight-up crime)...

...unless they are under a lot of stress. A dwarf who's severely stressed might snap into a full blown tantrum during a fight, resulting in them fighting lethally, which causes everyone to freak the fuck out. This would be a flat-out crime. Building off of this, we can have cool things like gangs of dwarves that get into full blown gang wars against each other inside the fort. Fun!

For something a BIT less violent, Dwarves should be able to communicate with others when doing jobs and also when a few tiles away. My three metalsmiths should chat with each other while forging gold crafts, perhaps becoming friends, or enemies, or rivals. A rival nearby could motivate a dwarf to work faster and/or better (or maybe worse if they're working TOO fast).

I think it would also be cool if dwarves had opinions on stuff besides preferences. For instance a metalsmith could look down on carpentry and thus mock or tease the local woodworkers if they're particularly vindictive or cruel, nursing grudges that can go on to become full blown fights if they keep pushing it. Likewise, they'll have a very minor negative thought about seeing too many wooden objects around, especially those that could be made with metal instead. The general viewpoint of a civ on various jobs could be defined in ethics: Dwarves for instance, would generally find metalworking, stonecrafting, and masonry to be more respectable than woodworking or bone carving, but of course individual dwarves could still like those, and dwarves with those professions would be very strongly biased towards them. Fostering a relationship with a dwarf whose profession you don't care for could raise your opinion of the job/dwarf ("Wood may be for the elves, but Urist McWoodworker? He's as good of a carpenter as I'll ever see"), as could said dwarf making a masterpiece artifact or somehow impressing you in some way. BUT, a grudge against a dwarf whose profession you already dislike would only strengthen your dislike ("Of course that fuckin' bellend Urist is a woodworker--should go live with those prancing Elves, by Armok")

Put simply: Dwarves' socializing should do more stuff. As of now, it doesn't really do a whole lot--a dwarf socializing does very little interesting from a gameplay perspective. Dwarves fighting with each other, intentionally avoiding ones who annoy them, hanging out with friends, competing with rivals, and making their opinions on stuff known and causing conflicts and friendship via those opinions, would all be amazing features, I feel.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 05:23:49 pm by YashaAstora »
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Ninjabread

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Re: Dwarven Social Lives
« Reply #155 on: March 14, 2024, 01:19:53 pm »

Sorry for not noticing this for over a year haha. The increased interaction radius and chatting while they're working thing has already been suggested, it's in the spoiler on the OP, but I do like the sound of some of the other suggestions. I feel like there should probably be a distinction with the grudge fights though; whether they are considered crimes or not should be less of a "Did they use a weapon" issue and more of a question of if it's a proper challenge to a duel/some sort of combat sport (boxing, wrestling, fencing, or equivalents generated by the world), which may be legal depending on the ethics of the civ, the outcome of the fight, and if anybody cheated, vs it being more like premeditated assault/battery/murder/gang violence.

I also very much like the sound of dwarves with certain personality facets being elitist about their professions, and tying that into the mockery and harassment mentioned previously. Only real thing I have to add to it is that there should probably be some visual cue of a dwarf's opinions about professions when assigning them to jobs

I'll hold off on updating the OP for a day or two just in case anyone else has anything to add
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