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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3245082 times)

Sizik

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4200 on: August 27, 2009, 08:06:31 pm »

Personally, I have no problems making an archive if that's what people require. BUT I am currently trying to see if I could hand out the wiki reins to someone else.
As you probable know, there has been a few problems lately, usually because I filled my space quota on the web host or because they broke PHP after changes or stuff like that.
I've been hosting the wiki since the beginning but I cannot put any more time into it. I am super busy at work, recently became a father and have other time-consuming projects.
If someone else wants to take over, I can provide with the DB dump and point the domain to your server. The small Google Ads banner at the bottom makes enough money to pay my hosting fees (about $15/month, sometimes more). The site consumes about 2GB/day of bandwidth.

I might forget to even come back to look at this thread so the best way is to send me an email (it's on the wiki), contact me on SA (same user name) or on HellMOO (I'm Dionysus).

Sorry for not being really active and all that. I'm not going to shut the wiki down if I don't find anybody but I really wish I could hand it over.

You could move it to Wikia.
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4201 on: August 27, 2009, 10:19:36 pm »

It's just something interesting I guess, plus a glitch in grammar.

It just seems a bit weird that it was so, well, percise. Like the Lion was a tube of fatty toothpaste.
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Neoskel

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4202 on: August 27, 2009, 11:10:55 pm »

It's just something interesting I guess, plus a glitch in grammar.

It just seems a bit weird that it was so, well, percise. Like the Lion was a tube of fatty toothpaste.

Oh dear. There's a real Lion brand of toothpaste.
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wigwam

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4203 on: August 28, 2009, 06:42:58 am »

Quote
"lion melted fat spatter"

"Fat spatter."
Lion melted, dragon approved.
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4204 on: August 28, 2009, 06:55:03 am »

It's just something interesting I guess, plus a glitch in grammar.

It just seems a bit weird that it was so, well, percise. Like the Lion was a tube of fatty toothpaste.

Oh dear. There's a real Lion brand of toothpaste.

Not everybody knows that there is a real Lion brand of toothpaste.
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4205 on: August 28, 2009, 08:47:20 am »

Quote from: various
rope-climbing animal fixes

It's more of a technical matter.  I know how to check for grasps, etc., but it doesn't matter.  There will be catastrophic lag if animals can't climb ropes, since the game can't handle path restrictions that don't affect everybody (locked doors, etc.), once you are down to dwarf-style movement.  The sorts of general, sweeping pathfinding rewrites which will need to happen eventually but which are incredibly time-consuming are the only fix here.

Quote from: jpwrunyan
But why aren't mace and war hammer the same skill?

Like you say before this, there are arbitrary things like all sword skills being the same, which should be changed.  Anyway, here I considered the forced strike angle for the hammer to be a large enough difference.  As far as I know, the head of the mace can be used from any direction, but you'll only want to use the front or back of a hammer in general, which seems like a different enough thing.

Quote from: Neonivek
What I mean is a sense that a martial art style is complete; ignoring subsets, alternate styles, and when applied to different mediums; not a martial artist being complete. So to rephrase: Will there be a sense in this game that a martial art style is complete or can it effectively end up with hundreds of moves, stances, and meditations and keep growing?
-Reminds me of an old phrase: Beware not the person who practiced a million moves once but the person who practiced one move a million times.

The Second aspect was, can you take an older style you created that was horrible, but lets say otherwise complete or not, and improve it and/or replace some of the aspects?

To add something (I am a horrible person) to it: In Martial Art styles will there be Fringe/esoteric moves or movesets, outside of alternate versions, that are not required for Mastery of the style but are available to those who need to learn it? Actually this could be expanded to will all martial arts be structured in a similar way with the same paths to learning it or can there be a martial art where the main style is in fact the basics and mastery is picking up one of the alternate styles or Subsets and another where the main style is all that is required for mastery and the subsets represent offshoots?

Yeah, I still don't quite get the first part.  A martial art can have a series of moves and so on, but people are always changing crap.  Certainly somebody could say it is done, and then somebody could change it later, which I guess is your second thing.  So you could take the Super Flying Kick school, created by some idiot adventurer, and have a student take it seriously and then refine the stupid signature move to make it less stupid, yeah, that's the sort of thing we have in mind in a very general sense.

I'm also not sure what you mean by mastery of the style -- in the sense of obtaining something like an entity-based rank?  Then yeah, the parameters for that could be whatever they are for any other entity position.  It might be a demonstration of a certain subset of moves, or how long you've been in an army, or it could be based on how much you can pay your instructor.  I'm guessing that the skills themselves would be specific-move-based with synergies on top of them for the overall stances and general move types etc., so in a practical sense, style mastery would just be having high skills in whatever moves and other disciplines the style has.

Quote
Quote from: Name Lips
why not allow the player to decide? Even if he doesn't want his dwarves using those things, he might still want to manufacture them for export. And who's to say you should be FORBIDDEN to allow your dwarves to use these things? If you don't think they're dwarven, don't use them.
Quote from: Neonivek
For example, if your playing a Race that things murder is wrong why should assasinating your own people be acceptable? Toady doesn't want to eliminate the ability to do so but so much as when you do something strongly against the morality of the race your playing you are demonstrating an extreme shift in ethics in that town/fortress/retreat and thus bad things will happen such as the bulk of your population abandoning you. There is more but that is just a small introduction to the subject.
Quote from: Kilo24
My personal preferences would be to allow them to use poisoned weapons, but let the ethics of some dwarves interfere (using poisoned weapons might give dwarves who care about such things an unhappy thought, and might have diplomatic repercussions by having other dwarven groups look down on such behavior.)

Yeah, I addressed this somewhere up there or before, but anyway, ultimately the idea is to allow you to make decisions counter to ethics at the price of the happiness of traditional minded dwarves (or all of your dwarves if the ethics of the situation go beyond a simple surface tradition situation).  However, most of these things are also lower priority in general.  I should get to certain things like poison weapons for dwarves at some point, but likely not this time around, unless you are grabbing poison weapons dropped by others (in which case your dwarves probably won't give a crap this time around).

Quote from: Outcast Orange
Will the underground stuff be found readily available on all map tiles?
Or will we have to search around and hope to get lucky?

If you've got the default parameters, there should be stuff wherever you start sufficient to make your life interesting, even if there'll be too much stuff for you to have everything all in one place.

Quote from: thvaz
We will have more control when making attacks in the adventure mode, or the hit location will be still solely a matter of luck?

Not this time around, though aiming is certainly planned for later.  I guess it's not that much work, but there are lots of things.

Quote from: Neonivek
Toady do you prefer questions in here be in Lime Green as well?

Yeah, I think it's useful.  I put this off for a few weeks, and I probably missed some of the plain color questions.

Quote
Quote from: Thursday Postal
Poor scamps! Is it that surgery?
Quote from: Scarpa
I hope it's not declawing.

No, it's not declawing.  It was denadding.  Scamps is no longer wearing his collar, which makes him a super happy kitty, content to scratch the hell out of everything with his intact beast-razors.

Quote from: EvilTwin
i think the wounds-display with light-grey to dark grey and all pain colors inbetwen will be there still?

Fortunately, light gray is out, and everything is in the init.  I still like dark gray for severs, but you can change it if you want.

Quote from: CobaltKobold
Is it possible to hack something off by parts, e.g. having three arrows (broadheads assumed) strike precisely and end up severing an arm at the shoulder?

Wounds see previous wounds to some extent, but not in that way yet.  An arrow could pass through a previous breach in a tissue, but if it wasn't a total breach, it wouldn't know how to add to it.  Well, I guess that means you could get a cumulative sever with a broad weapon, but only if you are swinging hard enough to break each single tissue.

Quote
Quote from: CobaltKobold
Related but separate, would a Stone Colossus (or similar) shatter (or appropriate) due to brittleness on proper strike from pick or hammer?
(Chisels were the original thought, though unlikely that one can apply properly in battle)
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen
It depends on how far Toady has taken the material properties into combat damage. The pick breaks stone because it applies a large weight onto a small point. If Toady has worked the proper factors in, the pick's impulse applied to a small damage area (these are in, as far as I can tell) will overcome the rock's impact yield, and since it cannot be dented like metal, it will shatter.

There are a couple of notions at work here, and we've got one and not the other.  The stone would be damaged, and break in that sense, but there's no notion of overall cleavage/fracture/whatever type characteristics.  Some things should shatter into little pieces, or break off in sheets, or whatever else.  So right now, you'd plant your pick into the stone colossus, but it wouldn't get appropriate larger fractures spreading over itself.  Modeling that sort of thing isn't out of reach, at least in a rough yet effective way, but it's not going in this time around.

Quote
Quote from: Aqizzar
Does it figure out a sense of dimension for bodyparts like limbs and extremities, or is it just a matter of part size?
Quote from: Footkerchief
It sounds like bludgeoning damage hasn't been merged with slash/pierce, even though contact areas are being tracked now.  Is it being kept separate just for combat text purposes or something?

Well, there's contact areas and contact areas, he he he, and edges are assumed to be at a small enough scale that my numbers don't resolve well there.  Edges move partially over to different calculations, using the shear value differences and their "edge" numbers without worrying so much about the particulars of the vanishingly small surface area of the slice, whereas bludgeoning weapons use the overall contact areas and do more actual pushing around in a more straightforward way.  It's sort of crappy and cobbled together, but hopefully it'll work out.  The edges still keep track generally of how much they are slicing through and how much momentum is behind them, so slashes are different from thrusts in that respect.  There's nothing here that wouldn't make an engineer vomit though.

In general, I don't have enough dimension information to do a really good simulation.  Critters parts have weird shapes, so I haven't fussed that much.  It oftentimes conflates total surface areas, volumes and depths, in ways that don't necessarily scale realistically, but it's not like I can do much about what these things look like.  As long as the results are good over the range of sizes and actions in the game, it doesn't matter as much, but some extra raw variables will probably come in over time as problems arise.

Quote from: smjjames
Regarding the new healthcare system, will there be a form of combat medicine where the docs can quickly run out to an injured dwarf and try to patch up the bleeding or at least keep them alive until they get to a field hospital or whatever. The Geneva convention doesn't exist in DF, so we can't count on anything like that.

I think I had something about soldiers having some helpful stuff with them, but I haven't done anything yet.  Healthcare should be up again after I finish the combat revisions.

Quote from: GaGrin
The silk-shirt thing's got me wondering if that inter-penetration of material layers will work at all.  Driving metal armours into flesh, cloth-fibres into open-wounds and the like - increasing the difficulty of treatment and chance of infection in some cases.

I've delayed item damage until after this release, so I haven't done anything here.  The compound fracture model doesn't accept any information from the inventory yet, and this should essentially work that way, kind of linked in with the stuck-in system for weapons.  It could be done before permanent item damage I suppose, but I doubt it'll make it in this time.  It shouldn't be too hard to do that sort of thing later on.

Quote from: AbuDhabi
Also regarding health care: Will there be neurosurgery?

He he, I wonder what they will actually do after I'm done with this pass.  Just go in there and apply stitches if necessary?  If there's a bug, maybe they'll give you a brain splint.

Quote from: Footkerchief
This made me check the raws preview and it turns out NERVOUS is still a property of the spine body part, not the tissue.  I wonder if that was intentional.

Yeah, right now the tissues get a FUNCTIONAL tag which shuts off all of the BPs extraneous functions.  It's clunky, but it was faster to adapt a lot of the old code that way.  I can strip them out to tissue or tissue layer tags over time.  Fortunately, there aren't a lot of single body parts with two different tissues that have two different non-muscular/structural functions, so it's not a big problem overall.

Quote from: Heph
Could we set wounds before a fight? Can we set up a concrete situation like slash with a certain force onto a specified bodypart, for example to test materials.

He he, I don't want to think of the interface for a wound generator.  Doing something like a single damage application would be reasonable, and I have some debug buttons for that which might as well be moved over, but we'll have to see what actually gets in there, since it would take a little work.

Quote from: PMantix
How much of a resource hog is area mode relative to fortress mode?

There's a lot less happening, but I haven't checked it in a concrete way.  If you drop a zillion guys, you still get some initial pathing lag and so on, but the weather model and the item sorts of checks that come with the dwarf mode are gone.  It seems pretty fast.

Quote from: Groveller
Any chance we could get Unfinished Arena as a toy while we wait for the major update, or is it too deeply entangled with everything else?

It would probably be possible in some way, but I'd probably end up burning a lot of extra time if I do that, so I'm just going to get this whole mess out of the way.  Then we'll be in a happy place where releases can be more frequent in general.

Quote from: Baughn
Could you alter the raws to make trees from a vascular material such as, say, entrails? If you do, will they bleed when you chop them down?

Yeah, I'm still not quite sure how trees should work, since plants generally have more variable numbers of limbs and connection relationships between them, so pretty much all you can do is make it out of the entrail material and add a blood extract (that wouldn't bleed).  Ultimately, plants should move over to a unified system with creatures, which would be cool for a lot of reasons, but I'd have to square that with how their body works and also the future multi-tile trees, as well as all the current plant jobs and edibility etc.

Quote
Quote from: G-Flex
Why is size kept as a signed value in the first place?
Quote from: CobaltKobold
Toady leaked the combat formulŠ for 40d, so actually all that would appear in them would be extra bonuses/penalties because the size differences ARE expected to be signed and are what matter.

Yeah, I'm not part of the in-crowd as far as the intricacies of mixing signed/unsigned variables, and the bugs that come out of signed/unsigned conflicts and weird rollovers are harder to find than the more straightforward stuff that happens for sensible reasons (like this negative size bug).  The combat formulas involve negative numbers and subtractions, so I've been trying not to mix.

Quote from: Mephansteras
We had mentioned a while back about the bug where the number of smelter reactions is capped. Has this been fixed, and if not are you planning on fixing it for the next release?

It's languishing with some other things in my list under "Handle a few misc. bug reports and minor interface requests that have arisen", so that should be handled before the release.  Apparently I noted it down there in December 2008, he he he.

Quote from: Footkerchief
I wonder if the melting of a tissue layer (e.g. subcutaneous fat) causes subordinate layers (skin) to slough off as well.

It's all a little weird right now -- it will for actual subordinate layers in the raw tag sense (hair on skin), but for skin over fat, which is more of a layering relationship the way things are, it's more like the fat melted first and drained out of the lion's nethers.  I think it'll be better to kind of simulate things further with heat damage from blood in vascular tissues or something, so that temperature damage happens way earlier and in a more systemic fashion for blooded creatures.

Quote from: Footkerchief
Has combat debugging gotten you fed up enough with the wrestling interface to change it to a two-step system (select attacking part, select targeted part)?

Ha ha, almost.  I don't remember if I have a good reason not to do it yet or if I just hadn't gotten there.  I certainly can't think of anything off the top of my head.
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Outcast Orange

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4206 on: August 28, 2009, 09:24:44 am »

...

Wow.
That post left me drooling.

I love Dwarf Fortress!
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skaltum

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4207 on: August 28, 2009, 10:26:09 am »

this may be in the wrong topic ??? could you explain upstep and downstep and there role in the game please
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Greiger

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4208 on: August 28, 2009, 10:45:21 am »

I asked the same thing some time ago.  Maybe this helps. http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=18536.0

Oh wow, march of last year...

Don't worry too much about not finding it in a search.  It's from way back before the forum move(as can be seen from the old edit text) and it even took me 4 search attempts to find it, and it was a topic I knew exactly what to search for.

P.S. And look! I still edit my posts 5 times after posting and overuse parentheses!
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 11:00:36 am by Greiger »
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Granite26

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4209 on: August 28, 2009, 10:50:07 am »

I can't help but feel that we've discussed this already, but it came up in suggestions earlier and I can't find it in the logs, so here goes:  Can you make a size 0 (size zero) body part or negative size body part?  How do they effect the creature?  Would it be possible to have the system ignore 0 (or negative) sized body parts altogether?  I ask this specifically as a way to hack the tadpole/caterpillar problem

Is the descriptive text (braided beard) tied to the physical beard status (beard grows from 0 age at a rate of 1 dwarfinch per year) in any meaningful way this release?

On a more interesting note, it may be possible to hack wings for requiring the correct size by having the flight token on a sub portion of the wing (winglets?) that isn't big enough until the wing as a portion of body size is big enough by stacking the size-tokens in a clever way.  I could be wrong.

Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4210 on: August 28, 2009, 11:37:12 am »

I can't help but feel that we've discussed this already, but it came up in suggestions earlier and I can't find it in the logs, so here goes:  Can you make a size 0 (size zero) body part or negative size body part? 

You can do that much, yes:
Quote from: Toady One
You can have them grow in over time from, say, length=0, but there's nothing like regeneration at this point.
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Areyar

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4211 on: August 28, 2009, 03:17:49 pm »

Quote
If there's a bug, maybe they'll give you a brain splint.

ow.

:has desire to create art of dwarf with a plank wedged into a severe headwound.:
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Mephansteras

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4212 on: August 28, 2009, 03:19:32 pm »

Quote from: Mephansteras
We had mentioned a while back about the bug where the number of smelter reactions is capped. Has this been fixed, and if not are you planning on fixing it for the next release?

It's languishing with some other things in my list under "Handle a few misc. bug reports and minor interface requests that have arisen", so that should be handled before the release.  Apparently I noted it down there in December 2008, he he he.


Awesome. Modders everywhere shall rejoice! (Not that we aren't already with all the new stuff going in, but this just expands our options even more. )
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IHateOutside

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4213 on: August 28, 2009, 03:21:03 pm »

What will the next version number be?
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #4214 on: August 28, 2009, 03:32:54 pm »

What will the next version number be?

The version number is determined by how many Cores, Reqs and Bloats (in that order) have been completed.  It probably won't properly reflect the amount of work put into this release, so prepare to be underwhelmed.
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