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Author Topic: Thank you again, Toady One!  (Read 3856 times)

Yanlin

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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2009, 12:14:00 pm »

Look 100 years in the future. Games will look more realistic than reality.
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PTTG??

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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2009, 12:40:01 pm »

Look 100 years in the future. Games will look more realistic than reality.

I think that while computer power increases exponentially, the difficulty of improving graphics increases geometrically.

In other words, every n months, games become half as unrealistic.

There will reach a point where we can't tell a generated scene from reality without special tools, but there will always be a difference. Also, we get better at telling generated things from real ones as exposed to each, so there may be a backslide effect as well, but n will be constant in the long run.

I think that n is probably close to 18, but I can't be sure.

Also, please keep in mind that this not only includes graphics, but physics, tactiles (as opposed to tactics), audio and visual, AI, Aurics, and all other measurable and immeasurable quantities of games.
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Draco18s

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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2009, 02:02:42 pm »

in a couple of years, even Crysis will look like crap compared to the nextgen games at least.

1) No one can run Crysis at full settings now
2) I can already tell the difference between a high resolution Crysis screenshot and a photgraph, even when scaled down so both fit on my screen at once.  The main thing to look at is trees; Crysis leaves look like they're made out of sheet metal (very stiff, and very flat).
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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2009, 02:37:25 pm »

in a couple of years, even Crysis will look like crap compared to the nextgen games at least.

1) No one can run Crysis at full settings now
2) I can already tell the difference between a high resolution Crysis screenshot and a photgraph, even when scaled down so both fit on my screen at once.  The main thing to look at is trees; Crysis leaves look like they're made out of sheet metal (very stiff, and very flat).

Are you agreeing or disagreeing?
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Yanlin

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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2009, 02:20:21 pm »

Damn sheet metal leaves.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Seriously...
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inaluct

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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2009, 05:36:05 pm »

OH MY GOD IT'S SO REALISTIC WHICH ONE IS THE GAME AND WHICH IS REAL I CAN'T EVEN TELL IT'S CRAZY
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Draco18s

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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2009, 06:37:45 pm »

The one on the left is real, the right is Crysis.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

See tree in boxed area.  Compare the curvature of the fronds.

See also the lower most frond on the left of this image.  Very very strait with 3 angular bends.

See this image and the impossible depth of field (the plant very close to the camera on the left should not be as crisp as it is).

Edge of the corrugated metal, right.  Too thick, no texture.

Not enough anti-aliasingEven more needed anti-aliasing.

Lower left, the wood.  Clipping, looks out of place, inconsistent focus, impossibly stacked(?).  Close up, clipping very obvious.

Want more?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2009, 06:39:48 pm by Draco18s »
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inaluct

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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2009, 06:46:35 pm »

I was being sarcastic. Look at the mountains.
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DeadlyLintRoller

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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2009, 07:30:08 pm »

Right now the biggest costs in game development are graphic design and level creation. Game developers literally have armies of these people cramming content into a game that a player will likely just run by and not even notice. This is why I am excited about any game that has a big emphasis on procedural generation. Although I was let down by spore, the theory was sound. I still think there is a big future for games which are procedurally generated.

A big future for Dwarf Fortress.

Also, the other item that game companies are fogetting about is a concept called aesthetic completion. Companies are so focused on making a completely realistic environment, that they don't realize that they don't need to make it realistic at all, it just has to look good (simply stated). Certainly there are categories where the emphasis towards realism is a bit important (FPS). But, as long as something looks good, the player will have an enjoy the experience. Any game that is made as realistic as current hardware allows, automatically becomes dated the second it is realesed because technology is continuing to improve.

I really enjoyed a game that came out a while ago called homeworld. It looked good, but things weren't necessarily "realistic" i.e. the smaller spaceships would increase in relative size when you zoomed out, for the sake of being able to see them. Also, the concept applies most of all to the cutscenes in the game, which were just simple drawings. But when the player is being blown away at how artfully done everything is, than they forget about the lack of realism.

There, just my two cents. I'm 26 years old and I have been playing video games ever since I can remember, so I certainly have a bit of input in this field.

p.s. I heard the general speech about aesthetic completion from somewhere before, I forget where. I just don't want to be called out for using a good idea.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2009, 07:31:45 pm by DeadlyLintRoller »
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2009, 08:11:19 pm »

Thanks for everything, Toady. 8) You and ThreeToe deserve an amazing amount of credit for all the fresh air you breathe onto the gaming industry-and internet itself (specifically Forum management)-on a daily basis.


As far as patents go, I might as well chime in.

Wall of text to follow:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As far as graphics are concerned, I concur with DeadlyLintRoller.
Dungeons of Daggorath came out in 1982--in glorious wire-frame--and it still looks great to me.
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Neonivek

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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2009, 08:15:12 pm »

I was able to tell which one is real by the natural imperfections that exist in reality.
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Draco18s

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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2009, 08:56:18 pm »

Also, the other item that game companies are fogetting about is a concept called aesthetic completion. Companies are so focused on making a completely realistic environment, that they don't realize that they don't need to make it realistic at all, it just has to look good (simply stated). Certainly there are categories where the emphasis towards realism is a bit important (FPS). But, as long as something looks good, the player will have an enjoy the experience. Any game that is made as realistic as current hardware allows, automatically becomes dated the second it is realesed because technology is continuing to improve.

Quoted for Great Justice.

The other thing game companies keep forgetting is fun.  That "play" aspect of "gameplay."  Sure, I enjoyed Half Life 2, but that was player driven story content, not gameplay (my gameplay choices come down to "do I kill it with a crowbar, or the shotgun?  Or maybe the pistol?  P90?).
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MrWiggles

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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2009, 01:34:11 am »

Also, the other item that game companies are fogetting about is a concept called aesthetic completion. Companies are so focused on making a completely realistic environment, that they don't realize that they don't need to make it realistic at all, it just has to look good (simply stated). Certainly there are categories where the emphasis towards realism is a bit important (FPS). But, as long as something looks good, the player will have an enjoy the experience. Any game that is made as realistic as current hardware allows, automatically becomes dated the second it is realesed because technology is continuing to improve.

Right, exactly. We saw this with paintings and sculpture. It wasn't until sculpture and painting became photo realistic, that we saw some fairly strange imaginative stuff. As once it hit photo realism, the differences became superficial, in order to strike a difference and identity with other artist, they went in other directions.

Lots of game try to be more photo real then the last one, but it from its imperfect gives each title an identity.
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #58 on: May 03, 2009, 01:59:35 am »

Once we have perfect realism in video games, the trend ofcourse will shift to making games which are more and more abstract.
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Yanlin

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Re: Thank you again, Toady One!
« Reply #59 on: May 03, 2009, 08:39:12 am »

Remember when games could be about chefs riding mantises with pistols that fire velociraptors and it would be FUN and GOOD? Good times...
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