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[BigFatDwarf]

Wait ... the incantation idea is in fact not original? Gah, damned DnD.

How about rune-styled, it would fit with the whole dwarf-theme, mix-and-match to make special effects.

Overused.

[Nivim]

 There will probably be runes involved, but it will still follow the same fairly unpredictable sphere relations. Maybe Toady will be nice and give a slightly more consistent magic to work with in the beginning, perhaps as a way to experiment in a safer environment.

Edit: Elves, Dwarves, and Humans are overused. You can always add a different spin, and the procedural nature of every game element fills that.

[Randall Octagonapus]

I cant remember who said it in a different thread but I think that there should be a magical language and mixing the different words could produce different effects
Now wether these effects could just bruise a random elfs third right foot toe or turn all the water in the world into magma is unkown

[Neonivek]

I still like the idea of multiple brands of spells.

Elves could use more natural magic that isn't so much magic but taking advantage of the power of nature that only those who are studied in that area could take advantage of

They could sing to the trees to produce fruit
They could whisper to the earth to swallow their enemies
They could pray to the winds to topple walls

The power of their spells is determined by their knowledge and their power over the land. The more hostile the land the less it should co-operate with the elf.

Magical and/or powerful creatures should draw upon an internalised magic powered by their own reserved of magic and their personality.

[BigFatDwarf]

I still like the idea of multiple brands of spells.

Elves could use more natural magic that isn't so much magic but taking advantage of the power of nature that only those who are studied in that area could take advantage of

They could sing to the trees to produce fruit
They could whisper to the earth to swallow their enemies
They could pray to the winds to topple walls

The power of their spells is determined by their knowledge and their power over the land. The more hostile the land the less it should co-operate with the elf.

Magical and/or powerful creatures should draw upon an internalised magic powered by their own reserved of magic and their personality.

So basically different sources of magical energies? Yeah, good idea, though maybe ...

Anyway, so for example, Elves would channel the power of Nature and Life itself. This basically represents the animals, plants and fungi everywhere. This energy being so tied to the environment, they could control it with ease, manipulating it to their desires, from growing weapons and armor directly from existing plants to summoning beasts from the wild, answering to their plead for aid.

Dwarves would tap the powers of Earth and Fire. Their mages would manipulate the soil, rock and heat to do various feats of power, from conjuring rock to fill a tile to gradually increase temperature in a specific area, resulting in various effects, from fires to melting objects and creatures. Their magic has a certain tune to them though that makes dwarves around the more active mages more prone to moods and tantrums.

Arcane scholars of the Human race wouldn't be really tied to a specific source, and such would use simply the most available one, though they might not be so good at it. Anyway, they would then use Life magic in forests, Earth magic deep underground ...

-

Except that this way still doesn't provide much in way of modding. One point in Dwarf Fortress is that you should be able to pull out all the classic races and stereotypes tied to them and play with Arglebargles and Aliens.
Though still, maybe that sphere based thing ...

[Dakk]

I don't like the idea of limiting certain magic to certain races. I for one am one of those people that would like that wizards become a whole new worldgen entity. Of course the great elven wizard of awesome could proabably  help his race or civ and even be part of it, but I like the idea of wizards pursuing their own goals instead of being tied to a civ. Since Toady mentioned the possibily of wizards creating their own minions and said minions possibly evolving into new entity altogheder, I'd say that is what he has in mind.

[Neonivek]

It isn't limiting them in so much as an Adventurer could learn those skills as well if he was well traveled.

It is the same reason why a Dwarf isn't going to build blowdarts.

Anyhow it isn't just Source that I was talking about it is methods. A Demon doesn't need to make pacts with the land or appease spirits to cast its magic, he simply bends his will.

An Elf doesn't need to devote its life to study in a library outlining the science of the universe in order to use its magic like humans do. It needs to speak to trees and listen to the voices of nature as well as hobnobbing with the spirit foci. In the same light a human isn't limited by if the land is working with him today either nor does the power of his magic decrease for reasons other then exhaustion.

It is an entirely different process

Mind you the "Wizard entity" is something entirely different.

[BigFatDwarf]

It isn't limiting them in so much as an Adventurer could learn those skills as well if he was well traveled.

''Well traveled''; Yeah right. Grind more like it. *heh*

Anyway, I don't really care what kind of a system there's gonna be as long it isn't one of those:
~
To cast a simple Fireball spell you need: 3 yellow fungi, 10 large diamonds and a big stack of hay.
~
What I mean to say is that as long I don't need to collect any items I'll be happy.

[alfie275]

I think a power word system with different access methods would be best.

For example a magic sentance would be "Burn Elf" would be general and burn all the elves in area, certain adjectives can be apply such as "Burn Enemy Elf" or "Burn Closest Elf".

Each civilisation would have different methods, I note that I say civilisation, a human brought up by dwarves should do magic like a dwarf.

Dwarves - Runes
Elves - Gestures
Humans - Spoken
Kobalds - Item based (ie throwing certain items into a fire or boiling pot)
Goblins - Rituals (a mix of the above, maybe with large numbers of goblins)

A player would earn a rune or word with a quest, or by trading them with other mages.

[LegoLord]

I still like the idea of multiple brands of spells.

Elves could use more natural magic that isn't so much magic but taking advantage of the power of nature that only those who are studied in that area could take advantage of

They could sing to the trees to produce fruit
They could whisper to the earth to swallow their enemies
They could pray to the winds to topple walls

The power of their spells is determined by their knowledge and their power over the land. The more hostile the land the less it should co-operate with the elf.

Magical and/or powerful creatures should draw upon an internalised magic powered by their own reserved of magic and their personality.

This basically sounds like sphere-based magic, only restricted to specific spheres.

Any way, if magic is going to be sphere-based, then some form of assembly would surely be involved.  Runes, incantations, it really doesn't matter all that much.

[Duke 2.0]

 A preface: Magic is going to take a long LONG time. Don't expect it within the next few years at the least.

 As for magic, I imagine it won't be nailed down to one system like runes and such. More than likely it will be a mishmash of varied systems squeezed in with randomized laws of physics and god powers. Before real castable magic comes along spheres and various deities will have fantastic influences upon the world.

 Magic is going to be as extensive as the current idea of deities. It will likely be intertwined into every other system to some degree. Despite it's influence everywhere the effects will be muted. The idea behind Dwarf Fortress is to make a fantasy story generator. While magic will provide much motivation to move forward it can't be everywhere 'else it will ruin the story in random craziness.

 At least, this is my take on it. The technicalities won't matter much. All of everything will be included.

[andy1005]

A varying number of systems could be used for casting spells.

Inventory System.

"2 x iron bars, 3 x soap, 20 x microcline"

Personalized System.

"Magma Strike - 20 mana"

Inventory Variant System (Rune system)

"2 moon runes, 2 stoic runes, 4 power runes"

Personalized Variant System (Skill levels)

"Novice"
"Legendary"
"Master"

External system. (Map features)

"*Dwarf activates Moon Orb for permanent night time*"

Personalized Variant system. (Classes)

"Druid"
"Seer"

Each system has its own advantages and disadvantages for implementation to the game.

If and when magic is called upon, there is only one general rule to bide by with implementation of magic: "If it's powerful: Limit its use, If it's not: Balance it carefully".

Combinations of systems are possible such as the combination of the personal variant system of skill levels with the personal variant system of classes.

"Legendary Druid"
"Grandmaster Seer"

Personally; a rune system is my personal favourite for implementation. It would intergrate quite well with the dwarf economy as there could be a rune shop. This, combined with perhaps the external system (map features) for having like a central stone on the map that occurs naturally, build defenses around that and use runes at that point for casting spells.

[Grendus]

My view of magic is that most of it is already implemented and racial. For example:

-Dwarves do things with magma that defy physics. Lava is not hot enough to work steel, and magma is too hot and too toxic to work with period. That's their magic, the ability to work magma. It's as iconic as the elves and their wooden armor. Speaking of which...

-Elves can grow crafts, armor, and other things as well as ally themselves with semi-intelligent animal men. When more NPC jobs are introduced I expect to see elves designating trees as workshops where the appropriate elf will go and sing whatever items they need out of the tree. Elvish magic is underrated, probably because it's poorly implemented. Physics based combat may fix this if Toady makes their wood more powerful. Likewise, once more intelligent NPC AI is implemented, animal men might become fairly scary. Cat men who can climb your fortress or swallowmen who can fly over your defenses are a scary thought if you aren't prepared. Gigantic elephant men who bring back the days of 2D might make the elves more fearsome enemies.

-Human magic really should revolve around alchemy. Toady is aiming for a mythic world, and in many mythic worlds humans are obsessed with elixirs of immortality and other chemical reaction. Since Alchemy really hasn't been implemented yet, I think human 'magic' hasn't been touched on yet, but Theetoe's stories suggest that humans will eventually bring chemical weapons to bear against their enemies. Watching human infantry sling acid over your champion hammerdwarves would be sickening and "fun".

-Somehow goblins are mass producing GCS silk and building giant obsidian towers. I've always assumed this is related to the demons who sometimes lead them, but even pure goblin towers have obsidian and GCS silk. Since goblins will bring evil creatures in sieges if they have any (BTW, goblins really should bring any kind of evil creature, not just trolls and beak dogs: ogres, harpies, spiders, and other evil creatures would make them less of a joke), goblin magic should revolve around evil in much the same way it already does - goblin sieges should make raw recruits drop their crossbows and hammers and run in fear, leaving behind a yellow trail and even disciplined but new soldiers should have moments of doubt as they watch a hoard of green descend on the fortress.





Should actual spells and such be added? I'm very much against a formulaic magic, but some of the suggestions like Derakron threw out, where magic is unreliable and dangerous at best might be fun. I don't want "Throw two microline, a chunk of hematite, and a live goblin into a pot, stir and chant for an hour, and out pops six steel bars" magic, but if the magic was randomly generated with the world and effected by both the sphere and the dwarf to the point where you're really not sure what will come out, it might be fun^tm enough that I wouldn't object.

[LegoLord]

My view of magic is that most of it is already implemented and racial. For example:

-Dwarves do things with magma that defy physics. Lava is not hot enough to work steel,

Too hot to melt steel.  Doesn't need to be molten to work it.  Otherwise, yes, that is true of dwarves.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

I think the Magic-User should be a noble. He has personal magic that he uses but he doesn't deploy like a soldier. So any help he is in an attack is incidental.

He mainly spends time working in his laboratory / druid grove / whatever (based on race). He should offer some benefit like a Dungeon Master does in training animals. Probably dwarven magic would do things like predict seiges and attacks some dozen turns before the creatures enter the site, give advice on where to find underground features, offer suggestions on where you might dig to find valuable minerals (he automatically highlights these so you can look for them when doing exploratory mining). Maybe instead of actual valuable minerals he just locates pockets of colored stone so you can search there. Perhaps his magic should be magma-based and he spends his time around a magma pipe or pool.

An elf Magic-user could warm the area a little, help encourage aboveground plant growth (especially trees), turn a tree into a mobile creature that is somewhat allied with the Elves (like an Oakman or a Pineman), summon or cease the rain, or cause / stop flooding locally. He could also encourage animals to breed faster and enter from the map edge more often. I think his magic should be water-based and he spends time hanging around brook sources and such.

A goblin Magic-User would be all about creating miasma, cursing creatures, starting fires, and summoning uncontrolled monsters onto the map. Perhaps his magic should also be chasm-based and his time would be spent hanging around the bottomless pit and chasm.

Kobolds and miscellaneous animalmen probably wouldn't have magic. They just aren't cool enough. Although a Giant Cave Spider Magic-User is just too horrendous to consider ...

The magic-User noble should also sometimes screw up and cause problems. These problems should be fort-wide. Like: Oops, I turned all our dogs into males. Oops, now chunks of fish are boiling up from the cave river and causing miasma.

Notice I didn't suggest any spells that are used in combat. Nothing that turns a Magic-User into just a gunslinger. Nor can you create a corp of spellcasting guards. And if you play a Wizard in adventure mode it doesn't mean you can blast monsters with 8 tile diameter Fireballs.

Keep magic magical.