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Author Topic: *Wizard Tower* (.36d) [for DF 31.25] - Multispectral  (Read 123269 times)

Adultratedhydra

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.11b) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2010, 08:22:54 am »

yaaaargh. am i able to put 1.1 over my current save? i just finished setting out a massive base for a tower and id hate to have to start again.
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SethCreiyd

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.11b) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2010, 09:05:47 am »

-Why do gemstones come from bauxite?
-Wooden meat?
-As someone above said, it should be vellum instead of parchment. And shouldn't a creature skin make more than one?
-The Display Case is an insanely good idea. How does it work? Do you have to dump the item near the case or can you select it from a list? (I will probably find out soon.)
-I see you have buildings for increasing the reading, prose, and speaking skills. What effect does this have?

- Consider sapphire, aluminum oxide, Al2,O3.  Bauxite is composed of aluminum oxide (hydroxides) and iron oxides, so it is a source of aluminum and oxygen.  The idea is that wizards "render' the elemental matter and rearrange into the form they want, adding ingredients like chromium or beryllium to the 'mix' to get a certain gem.  I'm no chemistry expert, but I'm sure if it was this easy in real life, we'd all be swimming in sapphires, but these are wizards after all.  I certainly have to fall back on the magic card when it comes to bauxite and most of the other gemstones.  I'd like to do more research and make each gemstone reaction require at least one specific rock that shares atomic elements with the desired gem.  It's phlebotinum, but it works for me.
- Wooden meat.  When I was testing its edibility, wizards appeared to avoid eating it until there was no other food left.
- From what I understand, vellum is finer material made from young animals.  The matter seems debatable, and I can't really determine one way or another.  Regarding quantity, what do you suggest would be a reasonable amount?
- Yes, the Display Case is awesome, kudos to kaypy.  The item to display is selected when you build it.
- Reading has no known function I can think of besides keeping idlers busy.  Prose will let you write scrolls faster, and make more scroll racks, which are valuable structures.  I don't know if they have any uses in vanilla, but it has none that are readily apparent.  The speaking skills, though, those have a lot of subtle uses, MagmaWiki has more info.

yaaaargh. am i able to put 1.1 over my current save? i just finished setting out a massive base for a tower and id hate to have to start again.

I recommend backing up the save folder before overwriting the raw files in it, just in case.  Alternatively you can paste the following line in the orange wizard's creature raw, just under the [SEMIMEGABEAST] tag:

Code: [Select]
[ATTACK_TRIGGER:50:5000:50000]
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 09:08:06 am by SethCreiyd »
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forsaken1111

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.11b) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2010, 09:10:38 am »

- Consider sapphire, aluminum oxide, Al2,O3.  Bauxite is composed of aluminum oxide (hydroxides) and iron oxides, so it is a source of aluminum and oxygen.  The idea is that wizards "render' the elemental matter and rearrange into the form they want, adding ingredients like chromium or beryllium to the 'mix' to get a certain gem.  I'm no chemistry expert, but I'm sure if it was this easy in real life, we'd all be swimming in sapphires, but these are wizards after all.  I certainly have to fall back on the magic card when it comes to bauxite and most of the other gemstones.  I'd like to do more research and make each gemstone reaction require at least one specific rock that shares atomic elements with the desired gem.  It's phlebotinum, but it works for me.
Makes sense, I was just curious about your reasoning.
Quote
- Wooden meat.  When I was testing its edibility, wizards appeared to avoid eating it until there was no other food left.
An understandable action. I suppose its an emergency food supply which tastes a bit like sawdust. :P
Quote
- From what I understand, vellum is finer material made from young animals.  The matter seems debatable, and I can't really determine one way or another.  Regarding quantity, what do you suggest would be a reasonable amount?
I suppose the name doesn't matter much. For quantity, I was thinking 3 might be more appropriate. Its unfortunate that we cannot yet have the size of the slain animal control the quantity of skin dropped.
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EuchreJack

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.11b) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2010, 04:27:07 pm »

I suggest keeping the term parchment, as that is the term most commonly known.  I didn't know what vellum was until this discussion.

Zifnab

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.11b) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2010, 05:34:17 pm »

Actually it is pretty easy nowadays to synthesize diamonds and corundum.  Rubies and saphires are gemstone quality corundum.  But if they were able to sell the lab produced stuff as gems without restriction, we'd be swimming in them, and they would have about as much value as rhinestones.

The value is in the rarity, not the beauty.  So certain colors in untreated diamonds might be rare, say blue for instance.  If you were to heat and cool a plain diamond a certain way, or but it in a chemical bath, you can sometimes get the color to change.  It will be worth more than a plain diamond, but not as much as a natural colored diamond.

Synthetic diamonds and corundum are used for industrial purposes all of the time, but are less common in the jewelry industry.  In the US at least, synthetic gems have to have a disclaimer saying they were lab produced.


With the first version posted, I had an orange wizard show up the first summer.  He proceeded to stand around and do absolutely nothing.  Is this because I had no meeting zones?  He did kill a cat when it wandered by, but then stood still again.
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SethCreiyd

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.11b) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2010, 09:46:31 pm »

Oh yes, we can certainly make them now, I meant only that the process is nowhere as simple as placing bauxite into a magical oven.  If it was, then dwarves should at least be able to smelt the stuff.

In the first release, the orange wizards were missing an attack trigger tag (making them show up really early) and their relative size to wizards seemed to be tripping up their predatory behavior.  I fixed that, but they can still sometimes show up as friendly in other instances.  I think this is a result of their intelligence.  They get taken prisoner and enslaved during world-gen by wizard civs (which view slavery as a "personal matter").  The [INTELLIGENT] tag implies [CAN_CIV], and this lets them join the civ as members of the slave profession.  The next version is going to have has the tag replaced with [CAN_SPEAK][CAN_LEARN] to try and correct this weirdness.

Although unintended, I rather like that the wizards try and tame their vicious kin.  It's heartwarming, it just shouldn't be possible.   :)

Edit:  Version .12 uploaded
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 10:48:19 pm by SethCreiyd »
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Adultratedhydra

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.12) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2010, 09:55:25 am »

Loving the mod alot at the moment. putting the time into building a tower and seeing it come to fruition is quite satisfying when it works. my only complaint is my wizards all love eachother! only one or two have grudges against eachother, my hope was for a fortress full of introverted crotchety old guys throwing snarky looks at eachother.

a suggestion i would give however is, while it makes sense wizards would build a tower themselves, perhaps some sort of caste could be implemented who do building and such for the wizards? some sort of artificial or slave caste, possibly made after wizards deemed manual construction below them.

just a suggestion, the mod is still great and i look forward to seeing where you will go with it.
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forsaken1111

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.12) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2010, 12:12:28 pm »

Loving the mod alot at the moment. putting the time into building a tower and seeing it come to fruition is quite satisfying when it works. my only complaint is my wizards all love eachother! only one or two have grudges against eachother, my hope was for a fortress full of introverted crotchety old guys throwing snarky looks at eachother.

a suggestion i would give however is, while it makes sense wizards would build a tower themselves, perhaps some sort of caste could be implemented who do building and such for the wizards? some sort of artificial or slave caste, possibly made after wizards deemed manual construction below them.

just a suggestion, the mod is still great and i look forward to seeing where you will go with it.
Use the reproduction system, but instead of a 'baby' they give 'birth' (build) golems to work for them.
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SethCreiyd

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.12) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2010, 04:11:00 pm »

I'm currently messing with a wizard's soul a little bit.  Previously they had a racial weakness in social awareness (shadows of this are in the non-civ wizards), but that didn't have quite the desired effect, so right now I'm giving a few of the castes varying levels of [VULNERABILITY] [TRUST] and [ANXIETY] to simulate a propensity for schizophrenia.

I don't intend to make a labor class caste for wizards, since this can be handled by the player through the game itself; such discriminatory practices should require effort.  The golem idea is interesting, and easily done, and you can use [POP_RATIO] to control how often they're formed in lieu of wizards being born.
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forsaken1111

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.12) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2010, 04:13:05 pm »

The golem idea is interesting, and easily done, and you can use [POP_RATIO] to control how often they're formed in lieu of wizards being born.
I was just thinking, how many wizards really do their own physical labor?

Perhaps some non-magical ordinary humans? I don't know.

Can you disallow a caste from using certain reactions/buildings?
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Bloogonis

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.12) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2010, 04:24:16 pm »

One way you could do it is make a golem cast like the slave mods. Making them common domestic civ members that can preform the civ labors as well as be trained as war/hunting beasts. this way they can be traded for from the wizard caravan and be prevented from natural birth through a pop ratio of 0 and no gender. Ive had difficulty getting my slaves to work right since its hard and time consuming to figure out what tags can be made to only effect one cast without harming the rest of the species(ie. language tags are not cast specific, so your golems would talk just like the wizards do).
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forsaken1111

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.12) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2010, 05:05:54 pm »

One way you could do it is make a golem cast like the slave mods. Making them common domestic civ members that can preform the civ labors as well as be trained as war/hunting beasts. this way they can be traded for from the wizard caravan and be prevented from natural birth through a pop ratio of 0 and no gender. Ive had difficulty getting my slaves to work right since its hard and time consuming to figure out what tags can be made to only effect one cast without harming the rest of the species(ie. language tags are not cast specific, so your golems would talk just like the wizards do).
What labors can a common domestic civ member perform?
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SethCreiyd

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.12) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2010, 05:08:28 pm »

I was just thinking, how many wizards really do their own physical labor?

Plenty of wizards do hard work, they just tend to levitate objects rather than lift them.  (Hauled) doesn't have to mean "carried."

Quote
Can you disallow a caste from using certain reactions/buildings?

Not as such, but you can use workshop profiles.

One way you could do it is make a golem cast like the slave mods. Making them common domestic civ members that can preform the civ labors as well as be trained as war/hunting beasts. this way they can be traded for from the wizard caravan and be prevented from natural birth through a pop ratio of 0 and no gender. Ive had difficulty getting my slaves to work right since its hard and time consuming to figure out what tags can be made to only effect one cast without harming the rest of the species(ie. language tags are not cast specific, so your golems would talk just like the wizards do).

That's intriguing.  How do you prevent other races from selling them in caravans, though?
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Bloogonis

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.12) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2010, 07:25:53 pm »

There is a set of tags for the entity that relate to Common_Domestic_x(mount, pack, pet, and pull), I also think the fact they are part of a civ race might cause another barrier to them appearing in other caravans, I haven't seen them in the other caravans in my tests.

I'm not certain because I really flubbed my own mod with them but they did work for several instances and made decent adventurers. Main problem I had was when I tried to make them intellectually different with a tag as apposed to stats. I haven't gone back to it in a while.

they can perform all the same jobs that the civ can as long as they are [intelligent], though I'm not sure what particular set of tags leads to them having the labors available vs the Butcher Y/N. I do know that training them as work units (war/hunter) changes it to butcher anyway and I think they have the auto active jobs (hauling etc) activated just like a peasant even if you don't have access to the labors list.
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SethCreiyd

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Re: *Wizard Tower* (.13) [for DF 31.06]
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2010, 11:42:34 pm »

I'm pretty sure the pet tags are responsible for the slaughter menu replacing the labor one.  My experiments with a Tigerman civ demonstrated this when I learned I could butcher six of my starting seven.

Anyway, v.13 up.  I've attempted to enhance the personality differences between wizards.  Several castes are more prone to different forms of mental illness due to the stress of their particular powers.  These maladies range from clinical depression and anxiety to megalomania, paranoia or full-blown mental schism.  There's no real way to drive this in-game like the strange moods, but they're controlled by casted personality traits and it works nicely.

Of course, the first starting seven wizards I'm testing in the new version get along famously with each other.  :-\  That's bound to happen now and then, I guess.  At least I can confirm that flying civ members do make use of their flight to path the shortest route to their destination.  I watched a purple wizard fly over a house on his way to go build another one.

Edit:  v.14 up.  I've had resounding success in the field of generating antisocial wizards.


« Last Edit: June 18, 2010, 04:29:26 am by SethCreiyd »
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