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Author Topic: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons  (Read 16044 times)

CrimsonEon

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Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« on: October 26, 2010, 10:50:02 pm »

I know it's probable that this has been posted somewhere else, if so, please redirect me to it, because searches have proven unhelpful and I don't feel like resurrecting an old thread solely for this question.

So, I've been attempting to find a way to create weapons and ammunition that can cause severe aliments and damage by means other than physical damage and dismemberment. I've tried multiple things, and have yet to create a nice effect. Thus prompting me to ask this question.

Is it possible, in the current build (v16), to create a material type that can either force a syndrome on a victim, or other effects, like exploding, igniting, melting or freezing?

I've tried messing with contact syndromes (the ones most likely to work), injection syndromes, MAT_FIXED_TEMP, and tweaking all other sorts of values, yet none have really yielded anything, and I don't want to go around messing with other creature's blood types to create the effect when they're struck (Though that does give me a nice idea about making cats that explode when hurt, I think someone else managed to implement it, ought to be a guide on DFWiki for it.)

Thread Findings Summary:

Some types of special bolts are possible in DF. The bolts are primarily reliant on the temperature of the creature it is embedded in to work. By setting an ignite point (for burning ammo) or melting point (for syndrome ammo) to around 10067 (The usual HOMEOTHERM value for most creatures) the ammo will take effect upon being embedded into the creature. For syndrome ammo, the syndrome takes effect upon contact with the melted ammo.

Here's three types of ammo material provided by dbay;
Explodium (Igniting ammo)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Virium (Syndrome inflicting ammo)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Doomium (A combination of both :D)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It is worth noting that the Object Testing Arena has a significantly higher base temperature than anywhere in normal fortress mode at 10090 degrees U (Also according to dbay). It's not enough to melt creatures, but materials in items that are set to burn/melt below that temperature will instantly burn/melt wherever they are, making testing material temperature effects there unreliable.

Here's two videos of the effects of Explodium and Virium.

Explodium - http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2312-explodiumdemonstration
Virium - http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2313-viriumdemonstration
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 04:07:06 pm by CrimsonEon »
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Funk

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Re: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 10:47:01 am »

syndromes dont work with solid materials.
try making a metal that starts to melt or boils at body temp,any time it gets to body temp it shoud do its thing.
i will try to do a test.
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thijser

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Re: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 01:54:32 pm »

Get a material with either very high standard temperature or a very low one. Now everything that comes close to your weapon will burn/freeze. You can also mod in reactions I don't know whatever it will work but maybe you could mod a weapon so that it will start a reaction when it touches blood. You could make it so that touching blood will cause it to become extremly hot. That way your target would burn. I haven't tried this but I think it should be passble.
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CrimsonEon

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Re: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 04:20:56 pm »

Well, now I got a result that seems somewhat promising. After setting a material's (willow wood's) ignition point to a bit below normal body temperature for most creatures (10050) and given it the piercing properties of adamantine, I set some hunters off to hunt with said material as ammunition. After a bit of shooting arrows at flying buzzards, one crashed to the ground, burning brightly, and, sadly, burning all the plants on the map in a huge forest fire, but hey, I got the effect! Now to look for other cool things to do with ammunition, or how to make it safer for preventing forest fires..

EDIT: It appears the forest fire only happened because my hunter picked the corpse up and caught on fire, returned to the wagon and set everything else on fire. If I leave the corpse alone, it surprisingly doesn't burn anything else.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 04:49:46 pm by CrimsonEon »
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Gearheart

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Re: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 04:30:08 pm »

I wonder if you could simulate electricity by having a massive increase in temperature followed by a sharp drop...

Still, that fiery bolt effect does sound like a fairly cool thing, so I wish you the best of luck with your !!Science!!, and hope you post the results here.

EDIT: Wait, adamantine makes terrible bolts. Like, really terrible. Did you just make a bolt which instagibs anything which isn't immune to fire?
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CrimsonEon

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Re: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2010, 04:51:45 pm »

Well, it doesn't deal much damage, but it has a good probability of getting *embedded* into the enemy, which is crucial to transferring the target's body heat to the bolt, which then ignites it, leaving the victim to a slow death by burning. I find it a nice effect, provided you don't use it for hunting, as then your dwarves are much more prone to getting on fire themselves.

ShadowDragon8685

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Re: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2010, 06:09:18 pm »

You could try setting it to, instead of igniting, melting or even sublimating into some kind of heinously poisonous stuff. That might not work, though - incendiary ammunition probably seems to be the best.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2010, 09:13:03 pm »

You could try setting it to, instead of igniting, melting or even sublimating into some kind of heinously poisonous stuff. That might not work, though - incendiary ammunition probably seems to be the best.
Of course! This is Dwarf Fortress! Fire is always Fun!
Now to remind everyone that fire only solves DF problems. Arson is bad.
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dbay

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Re: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2010, 09:57:49 pm »

Okay! I just tried two experimental metals, one that ignites at standard dwarf body temperature (10068 Urist) aptly named Explodium, and one that should sublimate at the same temperature with a deadly toxin that only dwarves are immune to. I also made it so only bolts can be made of these materials so that other civs don't randomly spawn with armour made from them (hilarity would ensue). The materials use iron stats everywhere that I didn't change.

They only ignite/sublimate on some hits, I beleive it to be only the ones in which the bolts get stuck in the target.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Any ideas for what they should be made from? I'm thinking Iron and something horrible like bones or skulls...

CrimsonEon

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Re: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2010, 11:45:19 pm »

Virus bolts? Excellent! They would make a great addition to any fortress along with Incendiary ammo! I think I'll make a guide for this on the DFWiki, it's important that everyone else knows how to do this kind of stuff, too.

By the way, as I think I said earlier, the bolts only reach the proper temperature when they're stuck into the body, and only when that body has a HOMEOTHERM value of 10067 (provided that your boiling/ignite point for the material is 10067 or below and also above room temperature, which I can't quite remember the value for.)

Next on my personal agenda are cats that either explode or spill flaming blood when hurt, then massive numbers of cats could actually be useful!

EDIT: Also, as a side note, there's something really weird about the Object Testing Arena's 'Room Temperature', all the bolts I make ignite immediately, yet in Fortress mode they don't ignite until they are embedded in flesh. Just something to note while dealing with temperatures in modding.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 11:48:14 pm by CrimsonEon »
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3

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Re: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2010, 11:46:54 pm »

(provided that your boiling/ignite point for the material is 10067 or below and also above room temperature, which I can't quite remember the value for.)

It's always 10040 underground.
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Fayrik

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Re: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2010, 10:57:07 am »

I think that "Room Temperature" can be a variable in some cases, and that we need some additional testing here to prove what effects the environment has on these metals.

I remember reading something on the Wiki that hinted towards "Warm Stone" being much warmer than non-warm stones.
Perhaps it's the large amount of Magma on the level that warms up the arena?
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bragos

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Re: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2010, 11:20:46 am »

Any ideas for what they should be made from? I'm thinking Iron and something horrible like bones or skulls...
Elven spines?
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CrimsonEon

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Re: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2010, 12:31:19 pm »

Well, after working in the Object Testing Arena, in which I know the room temperature is hot enough to either ignite the bolts itself, or not cold enough to cancel out the temperature transferred by holding the bolts (Can't be too sure of either, unless I could see the exact value for that the temperature is at the time), to my surprise I found that equipping the dwarves with nether cap gauntlets (Which have a fixed temperature at 10000) managed to keep the bolts all intact until they were let loose into the enemy. With multiple tests, I found that the bolts have a much higher tolerance for heat when in the hands of a dwarf wearing the gauntlets. One dwarf with incendiary bolts managed to shoot an enemy multiple times before the enemy closed distance and wrestled the bolts from his hand, and then all promptly ignited as the marksdwarf avoided burning. I suppose the bolts can be treated as hazardous materials when in hot environments and only be stored in nether cap bins, and only be handled by nether-cap gauntlet clad haulers and archers, which adds a cool twist to the whole thing, adding a risk to using the bolts to balance out their almost-guaranteed ability to kill with time. Also with the virus bolts, should the bolts actually manage to melt in the gauntlet user's hands, the gauntlet will prevent contact, however the molten virus bolts may boil, and the dwarf may end up inhaling it anyway.

These bolts are proving to be a really cool concept, I think I'll put them in all my subsequent fortresses  :)

EDIT: Random Idea: Cover the bolts in some sort of freezing liquid that evaporates when fired to ensure safety until fired! If only there was an easy way to cover bolts in a liquid, or even obtain a liquid in a controlled container.

EDIEDIT: Come to think of it, if a custom reaction creates both the bolts and the liquid at the same time, perhaps the bolts will start out covered in it? And I think all coverings the bolts have are erased when they're fired... I MUST TRY THIS.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 12:48:00 pm by CrimsonEon »
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dbay

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Re: Poisonous/Exploding/Igniting/Melting Weapons
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2010, 01:54:24 pm »

using dfhack, i found that the temp in the object testing arena was waaaay higher than in fortress mode- like 10090 U or something like that. Which is why things don't always work.

I haven't actually tested these weapons in fortress mode, so we'll see.

Also: what tags should I use to include bones and stuff in the reaction? I can't make heads or tails of these [THING:OTHERTHING:CRAZYTHING:NONE] stuff necessary for reactions, and I read the anatomy of a reaction guide.

EDIT:
EDIEDIT: Come to think of it, if a custom reaction creates both the bolts and the liquid at the same time, perhaps the bolts will start out covered in it? And I think all coverings the bolts have are erased when they're fired... I MUST TRY THIS.

that's BRILLIANT! make sure you tell us how it works out!

ALSO: you can stud ammo with gems en masse, right? so... what if we add gems that have some other truly heinous effect? incendiary bolts that melt the gems that release toxic gas? the options are limitless!
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