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Author Topic: League of Legends - Patch 7.22 - Runes Reforged  (Read 1233696 times)

Flying Dice

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13575 on: August 09, 2014, 09:34:38 am »

I would evaluate jungle bruiser Nasus as significantly stronger than AP Nasus, and the only other safe place to play him than top. AP Nasus lacks a fuckton of important tools he needs to function as a mage, foremost a mana pool and mana regen. If a mage lacks one of those, they can build to make up for it, but lacking both is a dealbreaker.
I'd further this by saying that it's safer than taking him top in any circumstance except one where the enemy toplaner has little/no poke or early power, and the enemy jungler has bad early ganks. I've actually had more than a little success lately with jungle Nasus by predicting invades and convincing my teammates to collapse pre-emptively. AP Nasus might have a smidge of viability in ARAM, but only early on.
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xaritscin

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13576 on: August 09, 2014, 12:40:15 pm »

I would evaluate jungle bruiser Nasus as significantly stronger than AP Nasus, and the only other safe place to play him than top. AP Nasus lacks a fuckton of important tools he needs to function as a mage, foremost a mana pool and mana regen. If a mage lacks one of those, they can build to make up for it, but lacking both is a dealbreaker.

build unholy grail and rod of ages and you'll be fine, i build AP Nasus like i build my AP Bliztcrank:

-rod of ages
-abyssal scepter
-unholy grail
-frozen heart/icebron gauntlet
-sorcerer's shoes
-void staff/lichbane/rabadon

Nasus does need mana and HP in order to be competent, but as a melee mage it works fine, the E actually does a good amount of magic damage along with the continuous damage in the area of effect, add that the ultimate scales with AP and you get a competent spellcaster, as long as you have built it tanky and with good mana, like Blitzcrank....

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snelg

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13577 on: August 09, 2014, 03:03:59 pm »

AP Nasus might have a smidge of viability in ARAM, but only early on.
I wouldn't count on him being useful anywhere but aram either as AP. But I'd say he's quite the terror there, especially if the enemy team have little or no heals. The aoe damage is ridiculously easy to land with decent damage and a large area to boot. People also seem to not like walking in it. He's a bit useful for clearing waves and defending turrets as well against poke-heavy teams if you have someone else helping out as minions go down a bit slow.
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frostshotgg

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13578 on: August 09, 2014, 03:27:05 pm »

Building both Rod of Ages and Grail is an untenable waste of item slots. There's nothing AP Nasus brings to the table that you can't get better on someone else.
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xaritscin

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13579 on: August 10, 2014, 12:05:26 am »

Building both Rod of Ages and Grail is an untenable waste of item slots. There's nothing AP Nasus brings to the table that you can't get better on someone else.

a good entertainment....something that one doesnt usually gets playing the run of the mill champions....

the game gets boring playing the same champions with the same typical configuration....
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Putnam

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13580 on: August 10, 2014, 12:24:38 am »

the game gets boring playing the same champions with the same typical configuration....

well try playing a different game then because this one isn't very conducive to going against that behavior compared to others in the genre

Frumple

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13581 on: August 10, 2014, 02:54:41 am »

Yeesss, because 1.1 and 1.100000001 is a major difference, ha. I mean, comparatively, sure, but...

Which is to say, "compared to others in genre" still means the other ones mostly aren't. LoL's about as conducive to mucking about as any of the major AoS games.

As per usual, the actual answer is to get friends and hammer out ideas and game plans and synergies and whatnot beforehand and duo+ queue instead of experimenting randomly in soloqueue, so you're coming into the game with people that know what the hell you're doing, instead of trying to get a team that has absolutely no idea what the zog you're trying to do to work around/with you. Throw in "mute gorram everyone" (do that regardless, but still) and you'll get to play off the wall builds fairly often! You'll get dropped on your ass like carry crystal maiden tends to, pretty often, of course, but that's what happens when you try silly shit like AD 'dinger or whatev'.

Playing different AoS knockoffs is still probably a good idea, though. To a certain extent, there's not terribly much of a point -- most of them just aren't different enough for it to really matter -- but tasting some of the variations on the theme rarely particularly hurts.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 02:57:15 am by Frumple »
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Putnam

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13582 on: August 10, 2014, 03:51:33 am »

I think you're underestimating how big of a difference small differences can make in how you actually play a game. You aren't going to play Street Fighter IV much the same way you play Street Fighter II, but I wouldn't say that they're not damn similar games except for a few different mechanics. The fighting game genre in general is actually a pretty good comparison. Just comparing to, say, Dota, LoL has no turn rates, much smaller toolsets per hero (given that each hero in Dota has a theoretical minimum of 7 active abilities, given Wraith King with 6 active items) and runes/masteries, which completely change how the game is played in a lot of areas. Just focusing on the lack of turn rates, having units not have to turn to start moving in a certain direction makes perfect kiting possible, which means that melee units need gap closers, which means that ranged units need escapes ad infinitum, which brings us the huge amount of mobility involved in League. Meanwhile, in Dota, turn rates and some long cast points make the game feel "sluggish" and "unresponsive" and "clunky" to League players as they really do make you feel like you're not acting quickly. These seem like minor differences, but they're pretty freaking big when it comes to actual gameplay. That's not even talking about the most obvious differences, like the fact that the statistics involved are completely different.

Cthulhu

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13583 on: August 10, 2014, 04:48:59 am »

I'm always a little put off when people try off the wall builds.  It's one thing when it makes sense and you've done the work behind it but I see a lot of people talking about "breaking the meta" and basically just throwing random stuff out there.  I saw ADC brand once, which makes literally zero sense (A kit designed around comboing spells in sequence, no ad scaling at all which means if he wants to stun or use his passive he'll be kneecapping his dps, no attack steroids.  Really the only thing he has going for him is a pretty good basic attack animation and range) and of course the dude was like "bluh bluh meta sheep" when people called him on it.

Dota's itemization is also a lot different, I think it's better.  In league there's not a huge amount of build variation, like most ADCs build pretty much the exact same with minor changes, APs are also pretty cookie-cutter but maybe a little more complex, etc.  Dota's itemization is a big part of its counterplay system, there's items for pretty much every situation and the stat system means a lot more items make sense in a lot more situations. 

Lots of situational picks that reward game knowledge and adaptive thinking.  Got Riki or PA or butterflies?  Monkey King Bar.  Too much CC?  BKB.  BKB?  Abyssal Blade.  Fuckers TPing out of your rupture?  Skull basher (or medallion if you're awesome.  Medallion and level 1 blood rage can kill squishies within the TP cast time if you're not way behind)

It does feel clunky sometimes.  I haven't figured out how to smartcast yet which is probably part of the problem.  I randomed pudge today against a silencer and I think I got my ult off two or three times in the entire game.
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Skyrunner

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13584 on: August 10, 2014, 07:43:20 am »

I keep noticing Rengar is stupid ...

edit:
Spirit Visage, Banshee's Veil, Frozen Fist
-> post-game enemy team "you have no HP" "you built no resistances"  when I was laning against a Malphite and the Akali got fed super early and fast. OF COURSE I melt to Vayne, but at least I don't melt to Akali. not that it mattered, we lost anyways.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 08:37:59 am by Skyrunner »
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Putnam

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13585 on: August 10, 2014, 11:31:00 am »

Off topic, but: Cthulu, if by smartcast you mean quickcast, that's just in the top-left of the options. You can set your Q,W,E, D, F and R to quickcast all separately there.

I think you can set item quickcast too? I only ever use it for Meepo Q/W

The Scout

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13586 on: August 10, 2014, 11:54:12 am »

The lack of turn speed in LoL really messes with certain character, mostly Cassiopeia's ult. A competent player can turn around, then immediately start hitting you again.
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Putnam

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13587 on: August 10, 2014, 01:46:13 pm »

Being thematically appropriate doesn't really excuse balance issues...

But then I'm imagining a Medusa's ult but without turn rates, which basically means it'll never do anything. I can dodge that thing even with slow turn rates.

Jopax

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13588 on: August 10, 2014, 01:53:19 pm »

You're forgetting that Cass has zero turn time too so she can fire off that thing in an instant, regardless of how she's facing. So unless you go in expecting it to fire off immediately you can't really predict it firing unless it's already too late.
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Flying Dice

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Re: League of Legends - Patch 4.11 - Jax is the King
« Reply #13589 on: August 10, 2014, 02:36:40 pm »

Yep. Not just that, but it has zero channel time, and you don't have a precise timer on its CD unless you saw the last use, know how much CDR she has, and bothered to calculate all of that in your head. At most you can work off of behavioral cues, and even then a Cass is likely to hold off until she has a good opportunity (in teamfights), much like a Sona, Leona, or Morg, and you're not likely to specifically watch a single champion when you've got other things going on (their assassins and tanks going in, your assassins and tanks going in, upkeep for whatever your role & champ require, so on and so forth).

Basically except for early fights in lane, you've got functionally no time to react unless you're lucky or exceptionally good at reading behavior. That's how most ults like that work; it's instant or near-instant hard CC which can only be no-selled (when on target) by great prediction and timing of escape abilities. Of course you could dodge it easily if it was mechanically DotA's Medusa's Stone Gaze, but it isn't.

TBH Putnam, I think you're getting a bit too caught up in your "LoL is worse at everything"... thing. There are issues with every -- LoL certainly has a substantial chunk of problems -- but the simple fact is that not everyone enjoys the same thing. I'm not comfortable with mobility creep in LoL either, but I also do enjoy a certain degree of high-mobility gameplay and skill-oriented balance in [insert-whatever-name-you-prefer-here-genre]. I watched gameplay of both DotA and LoL before I tried either, and I settled on LoL because it looked like more fun for me.

Also, unless I'm mistaken, Covenant was referencing the actual Medusa, the Greek myth.
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