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[Sergius]

I think I have hit a point where I should really turn up the difficulty since dragons have become a slog. I just pelt them with fireballs and hit them with my enchanted axe to get my mana back until they die. And sometimes I even use a fraction of my mana to heal myself back to full.

And slightly on the current topic: Why not do both? Build a settlement around a landmark.

That's mods like Real Time Settler... those are a bit generic, sure you get to choose exactly where the buildings will be and rotate them and stuff. I'm talking about a real quest (presumably, you WOULD build the settlement around a landmark: a designer specified one) with immersion and ending up with a living place, not an in-game version of the Construction Set.

I don't think there's a way to create believable "buildable" settlements in TES games on arbitrary locations with point and click. AFAIK you can pre-make the settlements in the CS, set them to invisible/disabled/whatever, and have quest triggers gradually reveal them as they get "constructed".

And yeah, @neyvn, I seriously can't believe you can't see the difference in both proposals. Taking over ready-made places is nothing like building a settlement and inviting other NPCs to live in it.

EDIT: But in case you're wondering: modding the takeovers should be fairly easy, if you can just create a trigger-like object and edit all the spawns in every place so that they become inactive once you activate said object (or merely set the cells to "not refresh", this would even affect containers. Now, I don't know if you can even change the "refresh" flag in cells during runtime.

[Neyvn]

And yeah, @neyvn, I seriously can't believe you can't see the difference in both proposals. Taking over ready-made places is nothing like building a settlement and inviting other NPCs to live in it.

Your too busy looking at the Forest to even notice the trees...

The only difference is method of creation. The inside of some of these Keeps and Dungeons are large enough to house Windrun inside them in most cases, Once again using that Keep I keep mentioning, I believe that there was like 5 different "Bedroom" areas and 3 different "Common Room" areas, mix it up by having the area to the left as you enter be the Item shop, there is a Common Room there with two "rooms" connected to it in a T'ish shape. Up the stairs from the entrance is a Caved in door, could be "Upgraded" to allow more, to the right of the upper area is the Crafting room, an alchemist could live there. To the right of the Entrance is like 3 different sets of rooms before finally leading to its "basement" or so, with a few more caved in areas...

Imagine upgrading that Keep so that previously caved in areas are now open, people moving into the keep and bringing life to it. Basicly building a settlement inside the keep...

The only difference between what I have said and what you have said has been Inside vs Outside...

[Duke 2.0]

 I would just like to point out that in the original example in BoF 2, you took over a rickety old shack some bum was living in, fix it up, and eventually build a town there. There really is no practical difference between them. It's specific locations where you do quests to build it up to something you and others can live in. How those quests are set up is just fluff. Whether it's buying a land deed for some forsaken rock and asking an architect to build something there or figuring you could fix up some ruin and also getting an architect to build there after dealing with some land deed asshole.

[Trapezohedron]

Slightly off topic from the current discussion, but what houses are the best ones, in your opinion? Personally, I like the Markarth one; there's tons of containers, moderate sized, dwemer origins.

On topic: I just prefer being able to take over a hold and run it. Nothing beats masterfully crafted, pre-placed settlements for me.

Too bad we'll have to wait for a mod to do that, and I'm quite finicky with mods that lack voice acting, in a world where sound and speech is prevalent (Morrowind was all text boxes, so it's excluded.).

[scriver]

Well, I've been planning to make my first modding project a wizard's tower of sorts, to get to know the new CS. Then I've planned to go over to a bigger housing project - a keep-ish thing to begin with, but I've been weighing ideas such as taking over an old building, then renovating it to your purpose, and also having a small "village" (more like a few hamlets I guess, but then again, that's how all the villages in the game are ) spring up around it. Influenced by the player's choices, of course. But I'm not certain yet. I'll see how things go.

[Sergius]

And yeah, @neyvn, I seriously can't believe you can't see the difference in both proposals. Taking over ready-made places is nothing like building a settlement and inviting other NPCs to live in it.

Your too busy looking at the Forest to even notice the trees...

The only difference is method of creation. The inside of some of these Keeps and Dungeons are large enough to house Windrun inside them in most cases, Once again using that Keep I keep mentioning, I believe that there was like 5 different "Bedroom" areas and 3 different "Common Room" areas, mix it up by having the area to the left as you enter be the Item shop, there is a Common Room there with two "rooms" connected to it in a T'ish shape. Up the stairs from the entrance is a Caved in door, could be "Upgraded" to allow more, to the right of the upper area is the Crafting room, an alchemist could live there. To the right of the Entrance is like 3 different sets of rooms before finally leading to its "basement" or so, with a few more caved in areas...

Imagine upgrading that Keep so that previously caved in areas are now open, people moving into the keep and bringing life to it. Basicly building a settlement inside the keep...

The only difference between what I have said and what you have said has been Inside vs Outside...

It's not the destination, but the journey

Seriously.

Me: You should be able to buy a home, that you could decorate and purchase equipment like a kitchen, etc.
You: Just go to Brenda's house and say "make me a sammich!"

Ever heard of immersion? Roleplaying?

You're too busy telling me that the trees have already turned into boards and nailed to a wall to notice that the forest could be a nice place for a hike.

[Trapezohedron]

The game should've allowed flexible item placement by allowing people to rotate grabbed items like Amnesia TDD. Decorating your home was a trivial matter in oblivion, moreso in morrowind. Why did they restrict item grabbing so much?

[Neyvn]

And yeah, @neyvn, I seriously can't believe you can't see the difference in both proposals. Taking over ready-made places is nothing like building a settlement and inviting other NPCs to live in it.

Your too busy looking at the Forest to even notice the trees...

The only difference is method of creation. The inside of some of these Keeps and Dungeons are large enough to house Windrun inside them in most cases, Once again using that Keep I keep mentioning, I believe that there was like 5 different "Bedroom" areas and 3 different "Common Room" areas, mix it up by having the area to the left as you enter be the Item shop, there is a Common Room there with two "rooms" connected to it in a T'ish shape. Up the stairs from the entrance is a Caved in door, could be "Upgraded" to allow more, to the right of the upper area is the Crafting room, an alchemist could live there. To the right of the Entrance is like 3 different sets of rooms before finally leading to its "basement" or so, with a few more caved in areas...

Imagine upgrading that Keep so that previously caved in areas are now open, people moving into the keep and bringing life to it. Basicly building a settlement inside the keep...

The only difference between what I have said and what you have said has been Inside vs Outside...

It's not the destination, but the journey

Seriously.

Me: You should be able to buy a home, that you could decorate and purchase equipment like a kitchen, etc.
You: Just go to Brenda's house and say "make me a sammich!"

Ever heard of immersion? Roleplaying?

You're too busy telling me that the trees have already turned into boards and nailed to a wall to notice that the forest could be a nice place for a hike.

Please note I said Keeps and stuff in the world, not in a city...

Its more like, "Hey, nice place you got here Bandits. I think I'll take it. A blacksmith would look great right there don't cha think... THUNK!!!"

[Sergius]

It's not the destination, but the journey

Seriously.

Me: You should be able to buy a home, that you could decorate and purchase equipment like a kitchen, etc.
You: Just go to Brenda's house and say "make me a sammich!"

Ever heard of immersion? Roleplaying?

You're too busy telling me that the trees have already turned into boards and nailed to a wall to notice that the forest could be a nice place for a hike.

Please note I said Keeps and stuff in the world, not in a city...

Its more like, "Hey, nice place you got here Bandits. I think I'll take it. A blacksmith would look great right there don't cha think... THUNK!!!"

Just what are you talking about? I'm giving you an example with the house thing, not a literal description of what you already said.

Me: You should be able to design your own airplane!
You: Or just find any old existing airplane and write your name on it with magic marker!

See what I did there? I didn't imply that you're talking about airplanes.

[forsaken1111]

The game should've allowed flexible item placement by allowing people to rotate grabbed items like Amnesia TDD. Decorating your home was a trivial matter in oblivion, moreso in morrowind. Why did they restrict item grabbing so much?

I couldn't agree more. When I physics-pickup an object it should go into an interaction mode where you can throw the object or rotate it by holding alt while moving the mouse or something.

[Neyvn]

The game should've allowed flexible item placement by allowing people to rotate grabbed items like Amnesia TDD. Decorating your home was a trivial matter in oblivion, moreso in morrowind. Why did they restrict item grabbing so much?

I couldn't agree more. When I physics-pickup an object it should go into an interaction mode where you can throw the object or rotate it by holding alt while moving the mouse or something.

The one thing I wanted to do was to actually fill shelves with my large collection of books, standing straight and packed neatly into them, but the Pickup ability didn't let me. I was disappoint.

[forsaken1111]

The game should've allowed flexible item placement by allowing people to rotate grabbed items like Amnesia TDD. Decorating your home was a trivial matter in oblivion, moreso in morrowind. Why did they restrict item grabbing so much?

I couldn't agree more. When I physics-pickup an object it should go into an interaction mode where you can throw the object or rotate it by holding alt while moving the mouse or something.

The one thing I wanted to do was to actually fill shelves with my large collection of books, standing straight and packed neatly into them, but the Pickup ability didn't let me. I was disappoint.

The shelves specified as bookshelves will let you just place books in them like a container and it will line them up. When the kit comes out I know I'm converting more of them to bookshelves in my manor.

[Trapezohedron]

The game should've allowed flexible item placement by allowing people to rotate grabbed items like Amnesia TDD. Decorating your home was a trivial matter in oblivion, moreso in morrowind. Why did they restrict item grabbing so much?

I couldn't agree more. When I physics-pickup an object it should go into an interaction mode where you can throw the object or rotate it by holding alt while moving the mouse or something.

Here's hoping the game's flexible enough to get modded without addons such as oblivion's OBSE. I'm just waiting for someone to implement that. That grab thing will eventually get modded in anyway, since the community is always hungry for mods.

[shadenight123]

The game should've allowed flexible item placement by allowing people to rotate grabbed items like Amnesia TDD. Decorating your home was a trivial matter in oblivion, moreso in morrowind. Why did they restrict item grabbing so much?

I couldn't agree more. When I physics-pickup an object it should go into an interaction mode where you can throw the object or rotate it by holding alt while moving the mouse or something.

Here's hoping the game's flexible enough to get modded without addons such as oblivion's OBSE. I'm just waiting for someone to implement that. That grab thing will eventually get modded in anyway, since the community is always hungry for mods.

MODS FOR THE MOD GOD.
MODS FOR THE MOD MOB
MODS MODDED MOB
MOOOOODDDDDSSSSSSSS

[Reiina]

The shelves specified as bookshelves will let you just place books in them like a container and it will line them up. When the kit comes out I know I'm converting more of them to bookshelves in my manor.

Amusingly enough that was first introduced by a mod in Oblivion, can't really remember the name but they obviously got it from there.
Same for the combat, skyrim clearly got its inspiration from deadly reflex mod.
The plants you harvest and it shows you harvested them by removing bits of it? An oblivion mod.

There are probably a lot more examples but that's all I can think of on the top of my head. Can't really blame bethesda for using those ideas though, those were great ideas.