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[Salvatore Monday]

@Imp:
It's possible Jim is lying to have an alibi, but that's really Disneyland logic. It does make it almost impossible for Magma to be a dopp though. I think it's really unlikely you or Jim could be partners with Agentt after looking over D1 (for example you Imp decided on voting Agentt after NQT made it a 4-way tie near end of day), which matches how I felt about you two during D1 anyway.

One thing I can imagine is a human traitor role functioning as a mafia-ally.

[Jim Groovester]

Is there no mech way that Jim could be honestly reporting yet Magma still could have killed?

In theory if Magma Mater had the Advanced Holoform Modulator he could appear to stay at home to me while I drank his beer and ate his snacks, but that's alien tech not available to human or dopp players. So in that instance too he's not a dopp. He'd be at least as dangerous as a dopp if that's what was going on, but I don't know how far down the rabbit hole you want to take yourself.

It's also conceivable we might be in a setup where there's an alien helping the dopps or they got to take alien tech, but I do think we should consider it a lower-level possibility.

Paranormal games aren't open setups strictly speaking, but all the roles and alignments are enumerated in the rules. So things like alien dopp allies are not possible.

I wouldn't mind Paranormal games getting a little bit more spice like what you're describing though.

[Imp]

I also remain certain that AP was communicating with another player, and likely using that other player's ideas and phrasing to influence how he wrote in the thread.

It's not me.

I don't think it's Jim or Toony (I could be wrong.  Very impressed if it is either of those).  It also was out of range of how Crystal talks and thinks.

I can't eval it of NQT, but NQT has been surprising and hard for me to read for several games.  It could be in NQT's wheelhouse, I don't particularly expect so but I can't say "I don't think it's NQT".

People I think it could be:

Magma.  Who was my FIRST feel-thought when I noticed. And who had a mechanically correct, could have been pre-made, instantly designed answer when I noticed and reacted.  Which could be coincidence, or designed.

Sal.  Could be, totally within the range of what Sal can do, and that what I know of Agent might want and choose to go with.

AP.  Odd if so.  Really odd.  Also AP looks decently likely to be town by his in thread posts so far.  Really want to see a lot more - not strongly likely to be town.  But decently likely.

Now that I know Agentt was a dorp and DID have private communications with a second dorp (that is how we're supposed to read the opening flavor, right?  2 pods, 2 dorps, or something roughly equivalent to that?  Something faking being a dorp with them?  I have no idea what range makes sense mech-wise here).

So I heard someone else's ideas and voice through Agentt.  So I am still pointing out what I see and think.

[Imp]

@Imp:
It's possible Jim is lying to have an alibi, but that's really Disneyland logic. It does make it almost impossible for Magma to be a dopp though. I think it's really unlikely you or Jim could be partners with Agentt after looking over D1 (for example you Imp decided on voting Agentt after NQT made it a 4-way tie near end of day), which matches how I felt about you two during D1 anyway.

One thing I can imagine is a human traitor role functioning as a mafia-ally.

Death flavor has meaning?

Crystal seems eaten in typical dorp style, or am I confused?

[Salvatore Monday]

Paranormal games aren't open setups strictly speaking, but all the roles and alignments are enumerated in the rules. So things like alien dopp allies are not possible.

I'm aware of the setup, but I see enough flexibility in the rules as written to make these things possible. For example, nothing expressly states that humans can't be evil; all the human roles can be human or doppelganger, and have human or doppelganger win conditions, but it's only implied that these should correspond. It's true that aliens can't specifically have a dopp-ally win condition, though, but I didn't mean expressly so.

[Salvatore Monday]

@Imp:
It's possible Jim is lying to have an alibi, but that's really Disneyland logic. It does make it almost impossible for Magma to be a dopp though. I think it's really unlikely you or Jim could be partners with Agentt after looking over D1 (for example you Imp decided on voting Agentt after NQT made it a 4-way tie near end of day), which matches how I felt about you two during D1 anyway.

One thing I can imagine is a human traitor role functioning as a mafia-ally.

Death flavor has meaning?

Crystal seems eaten in typical dorp style, or am I confused?

It's certainly as you say. In this case, Jim would be the ally, and lying to cover Magma (the dopp who actually ate Crystal), but still voted Agentt willingly because he didn't know Agentt was on his side.

It's conceivable. I'm not rating it terribly highly.

[Imp]

Paranormal games aren't open setups strictly speaking, but all the roles and alignments are enumerated in the rules. So things like alien dopp allies are not possible.

I'm aware of the setup, but I see enough flexibility in the rules as written to make these things possible. For example, nothing expressly states that humans can't be evil; all the human roles can be human or doppelganger, and have human or doppelganger win conditions, but it's only implied that these should correspond. It's true that aliens can't specifically have a dopp-ally win condition, though, but I didn't mean expressly so.

Commenting because 'evil'. I feel deeply evil these days.  In and out of game, it colors my thinking and attitude and decisions.  In game, I'm human, and town.  And moving towards town wincon, just very evilly.

So, in my case at very least.  Human == evil is a yes to self perception (not mech defined).  Not helping dorps though.

[ToonyMan]

@Imp:
There were two dorps. Only one dorp on N1. Crystal was killed by a dorp on N1, this is confirmed in flavor. Magma never left their house on N1, this is confirmed by Jim. I can't remember dorps getting alien tech ever so Magma isn't a dork 99.9% unless something is fucked or Jim is a lying.

[Salvatore Monday]

Sal.  Could be, totally within the range of what Sal can do, and that what I know of Agent might want and choose to go with.

I wouldn't have let Agentt get lynched like that though.

I expressly chose to force ToonyMan onto the Agentt wagon yesterday, remember?

Even still, I'm happy to flip if I need to. I could even play the ToonyMan and say the magic words that guarantee I get killed. But for now, I'll keep these vultures guessing.

[ToonyMan]

@Imp:
Death flavor confirms what race the killer was in Paranormal, yes.

[Imp]

And Agentt was a detective, who can find visible role folks, and that's literally the only function of that role.

Is it correct that the only 2 roles that have a VISIBLE ROLE are either "Exterminator Operative" who means there IS an Exterminator in play, who would kill with high tech energy weapons and also hunts the dorps - but is actually SK by wincon???  "Victory: All non-Exterminator aligned players are dead"  That's way more than killing dorps.

And the other VISIBLE ROLE is Agent Operative which means there IS an agent in play, 'Operative is not told who the Agent is until the First Night, however. In addition, the government has no way of knowing if the Agent is still human. The Operative should use caution when contacting the agent.' --- BUT "Town wins" is the wincon.  So should not help a dorp agent, but should try to find one.

But if there is neither an agent operative or an exterminator operative in play - then there is nothing for a detective to do, except find people with 'no role'.

So, should we take the presence of a detective to mean we have an operative for them to find?  Or no, could be either?

Sidenote.  I'm not SK levels of evil.  But I'll hunt any threat to town, just like any game where I'm town.

[Salvatore Monday]

And Agentt was a detective, who can find visible role folks, and that's literally the only function of that role.

Is it correct that the only 2 roles that have a VISIBLE ROLE are either "Exterminator Operative" who means there IS an Exterminator in play, who would kill with high tech energy weapons and also hunts the dorps - but is actually SK by wincon???  "Victory: All non-Exterminator aligned players are dead"  That's way more than killing dorps.

And the other VISIBLE ROLE is Agent Operative which means there IS an agent in play, 'Operative is not told who the Agent is until the First Night, however. In addition, the government has no way of knowing if the Agent is still human. The Operative should use caution when contacting the agent.' --- BUT "Town wins" is the wincon.  So should not help a dorp agent, but should try to find one.

But if there is neither an agent operative or an exterminator operative in play - then there is nothing for a detective to do, except find people with 'no role'.

So, should we take the presence of a detective to mean we have an operative for them to find?  Or no, could be either?

Sidenote.  I'm not SK levels of evil.  But I'll hunt any threat to town, just like any game where I'm town.

A) no question that Meph would not allow us to infer setup from the roles that easily
2) No, most roles are visible as themselves if not specifically marked as saying something else, so the mafia rolecop still works just as well as a normal mafia rolecop at finding town power roles to kill

[Imp]

Sal.  Could be, totally within the range of what Sal can do, and that what I know of Agent might want and choose to go with.

I wouldn't have let Agentt get lynched like that though.

I expressly chose to force ToonyMan onto the Agentt wagon yesterday, remember?

Even still, I'm happy to flip if I need to. I could even play the ToonyMan and say the magic words that guarantee I get killed. But for now, I'll keep these vultures guessing.

Yeah, I'm not saying elim you, now or later.

I'm literally spelling out my 'Likely only Imp can see this/say this, nobody else can possibly do so'.

I may die before game's over, if so my flip helps inform too and folks may come back to what I've said.

I actually am most concerned about the alignments of Magma, AP, and Toony (Toons who I don't think is a likely communication partner for Agentt.  But I ping on Toons this game and can't tell why.)  I also really trust Jim this game.  Unnaturally and strongly so and it's not mech.  But I like want to say 'Yeah, Jim's just town.  No questions there, it's all okay'.  What am I pinging on there I dunno either.  And I can't remember ever feeling trust of Jim before and I am not a human who normally feels trust.  So that's freaking weird and worth saying.  Just in case out-of-game psychic/intuition including can be really wrong has meaning and value.

But hey.  I totally trust Jim right now.  Believe him too.  Which is weird as eep.

Sal can be anything.  And could be communication partner for Agentt.  I don't think likely, but is explicitly within the group that could have been part of how/why Agentt was speaking the way he was.

[Salvatore Monday]

Sal.  Could be, totally within the range of what Sal can do, and that what I know of Agent might want and choose to go with.

I wouldn't have let Agentt get lynched like that though.

I expressly chose to force ToonyMan onto the Agentt wagon yesterday, remember?

Even still, I'm happy to flip if I need to. I could even play the ToonyMan and say the magic words that guarantee I get killed. But for now, I'll keep these vultures guessing.

Yeah, I'm not saying elim you, now or later.

I'm literally spelling out my 'Likely only Imp can see this/say this, nobody else can possibly do so'.

I may die before game's over, if so my flip helps inform too and folks may come back to what I've said.

I actually am most concerned about the alignments of Magma, AP, and Toony (Toons who I don't think is a likely communication partner for Agentt.  But I ping on Toons this game and can't tell why.)  I also really trust Jim this game.  Unnaturally and strongly so and it's not mech.  But I like want to say 'Yeah, Jim's just town.  No questions there, it's all okay'.  What am I pinging on there I dunno either.  And I can't remember ever feeling trust of Jim before and I am not a human who normally feels trust.  So that's freaking weird and worth saying.  Just in case out-of-game psychic/intuition including can be really wrong has meaning and value.

But hey.  I totally trust Jim right now.  Believe him too.  Which is weird as eep.

Sal can be anything.  And could be communication partner for Agentt.  I don't think likely, but is explicitly within the group that could have been part of how/why Agentt was speaking the way he was.

I know, I just wanted to mention.

[Imp]

• Detective
      Race: Human/Doppelganger
      Goal: Find
      Rules: During the night, the Detective can investigate a character to determine what role, if any, the character possesses. Roles with the 'Visible Role' tag will show that role instead of thier actual Role..
      Victory: Town/Doppelgangers win
  

Oh!!  Okay.  I misread and thought detective catches the visible role if any.  But they also get the race/role, if not a visible role.

Happier about detective now, that makes sense.

So, what is role then?

Is it RACE?  Is it ROLE NAME?  Is it SOMETHING ELSE?