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Author Topic: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension  (Read 524292 times)

Antioch

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1455 on: September 04, 2015, 02:24:23 pm »

I haven't played dominions 4 yet, is the interface any better than that of dominions 3?
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Frumple

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1456 on: September 04, 2015, 02:32:27 pm »

A bit better, yeah. Good handful of quality of life changes, too. It's actually fairly painful to go back and play D3, now, after playing D4 for a while.
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BFEL

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1457 on: September 04, 2015, 03:08:17 pm »

I haven't played dominions 4 yet, is the interface any better than that of dominions 3?

It...takes a little while to get used to. Its VERY different, others think its better, but I'm not really sure yet. I do enjoy the "lines showing which provinces are linked" thing though.
Mostly I just think the new way they do the right click unit views is sorta uglier, that's my only tangible complaint about the interface.

Oh, and just a quick aside: Am I the only one annoyed that the random maps are wraparound now? The way this game does it is just so terrible and ugly BLEGH
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edit: and the first thing I bloody do with this power is try and generate a map so fuckhueg that it literally ran out of memory :P
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 03:26:06 pm by BFEL »
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1458 on: September 04, 2015, 05:38:30 pm »

I'll give you the lack of combat spells, but that's kinda not the paths focus.
I think nature is a fairly ritual focused path, and rituals are what I tend to use. Granted I'm probably doing roughly all the things wrong, but hey, its what I know.
Generally speaking if you're using magic in a way that is both practical and purposeful you're better than the average beginner.

If you're going for a ritual or construction focused playstyle you're still going to need some kind of combat magic.  You're never going to win a multiplayer game without some form of competent combat magic, unless maybe you go hardcore into blood magic.  One thing you could look into is, instead of bringing a dozen low path mages to every fight, bring a single competent mage who casts a key spell.  Something like Flaming Arrows, Fog Warriors, Grip of Winter, Howl, that kind of thing.  Its not particularly hard to build an army around Flaming Arrows or Grip of Winter and using magic this way will leave you plenty of mage turns for whatever else you're doing.

If you can't think of what to do with combat magic, find a faction with a low cost, low path mage with no randoms.  And then find the perfect spell for them to spam.  Its a nice exercise in how to get magic up quick.  In my first beginner game I got so much mileage out of a single spell, Horde of Skeletons, just casting it three dozen times every fight.  You only need variety if people can counter your first strategy :P

Also, if you like nature magic, consider this: whoever has the strongest nature magic/income in a game, will get to cast Mother Oak.  Whoever casts Mother Oak, will have nature gems to recast Mother Oak, which means they'll constantly have a free 10 gems per turn every turn for the rest of the game.  Gotta use diplo so people don't team up on you tho.
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BFEL

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1459 on: September 04, 2015, 07:24:54 pm »

Also, if you like nature magic, consider this: whoever has the strongest nature magic/income in a game, will get to cast Mother Oak.  Whoever casts Mother Oak, will have nature gems to recast Mother Oak, which means they'll constantly have a free 10 gems per turn every turn for the rest of the game.  Gotta use diplo so people don't team up on you tho.
Well EVERY path has one of those, so its hardly competing. And frankly that is one of the low end income globals. Though the other globals in nature make up for its weak income one. In fact one could go so far as saying nature is THE global path. I mean GoH is just majorly good in every way, and then you can also throw in...I think its called Natures Bounty? But I suppose that IS on the last tier, so YMMV.

The only thing that really competes with the overall usefulness of nature globals are death ones, and in a MP game I imagine anything there other then Well of Misery (possibly the best income global) will result in a swift ganking. Plus those definitely aren't good for every faction, quite a few of them would be crippling yourself.

Though I suppose I must admit to inexperience there, I have no multiplayer games under my belt, so most players can probably just dismiss what I have to say :P

If you're going for a ritual or construction focused playstyle you're still going to need some kind of combat magic.  You're never going to win a multiplayer game without some form of competent combat magic, unless maybe you go hardcore into blood magic.  One thing you could look into is, instead of bringing a dozen low path mages to every fight, bring a single competent mage who casts a key spell.  Something like Flaming Arrows, Fog Warriors, Grip of Winter, Howl, that kind of thing.  Its not particularly hard to build an army around Flaming Arrows or Grip of Winter and using magic this way will leave you plenty of mage turns for whatever else you're doing.
Admittedly this is the exact opposite of my problem with combat magic. Specifically all I really USE is the "one competent mage casting key spell" and don't really have the know how of when/how to use mage swarms. Actually I have issues GENERATING loads of mages for anything other then research monkeys, so that's probably a significant portion of that.

Its weird how I REALLY know what I'm doing in some stuff but totally lack understanding of some things other players think of as extremely basic.
Though I suppose some of that is attributable to "Dominions is roughly 12 times as deep as the Marianas Trench" and that I just haven't played enough of it to really work out a coherent tied together strategy.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1460 on: September 04, 2015, 08:04:11 pm »

Earth magic is one of my favorites, especially combined with fire. Lots of useful spells in earth. Here's just one: Earth Attack, a remote assassination spell which summons an earth elemental to do the job (usually by trampling), cannot be resisted, doesn't backfire, has a relatively low cost (5 gems iirc), and can be cast by E5 casters, so you can augment any E3 (which you can summon) with earth boots and blood stones to do it.

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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1461 on: September 04, 2015, 10:22:01 pm »

Also, if you like nature magic, consider this: whoever has the strongest nature magic/income in a game, will get to cast Mother Oak.  Whoever casts Mother Oak, will have nature gems to recast Mother Oak, which means they'll constantly have a free 10 gems per turn every turn for the rest of the game.  Gotta use diplo so people don't team up on you tho.
Well EVERY path has one of those, so its hardly competing. And frankly that is one of the low end income globals.
The way that research works is that each level in a school costs twice as much as all the levels before it combined.  So, 50>100>200 etc. research points.  Mother Oak being castable on level 5 alteration means that A practically speaking its the earliest sane global to come out every game and B the fact that you get it earlier means it generates more gems.  Its "worse" than the other gem gens but its still the most *important* gem gen because of its accessibility compared to the others.

Admittedly this is the exact opposite of my problem with combat magic. Specifically all I really USE is the "one competent mage casting key spell" and don't really have the know how of when/how to use mage swarms. Actually I have issues GENERATING loads of mages for anything other then research monkeys, so that's probably a significant portion of that.
The truth of the matter is... it hurts your economy to put out mage swarms for combat.  But its such a good strategy, at least early on, that you need to do it anyway.  You really only want to have one or two mage swarms out a time for your first war.  For the first, I dunno, three years, you ideally be recruiting a mage at every fort every turn, and get 2-3 forts up quickly to facilitate that.  From there, think of your mage force as something akin to a medieval levy.  Their primary value is economic, AKA sitesearching and research, you only send them out to war if they'll save you money by taking territory or preventing territory loss.  You want to minimize the number of mage-turns spent at war, while having as many mages as possible in the important fights.  So seek out fights with your mage swarms, don't pay them to passively patrol your territory or something.  You also want troops that don't overlap with your mages.  So if you're using evocations, you want the cheapest possible wall of units between the enemy and your mages that won't route.  If you're using buffs, you need melee units that can do damage in melee, or all you're doing is delaying the inevitable.  If you're using summons, a huge wall of infantry will actually prevent your 100% expendable combat summons from reaching the front while your troops you paid gold or gems for die in their place.  Ect. Ect.

The other trick to mage swarms is you want to find a spell that scales 1:1 the more you cast it.  Fireballs scale 1:1, one fireball does one fireball worth of damage, two fireballs does 2x as much damage.  So do battle summons, almost, unless you fill up your front rank at which point their usefullness drops.  But buff spells and debuff spells don't scale, because they can only be cast once per unit.  Six guys casting barkskin is not six times as good as one guy casting barkskin, if you get my drift.  You also just want to find a spell that's sort of overpowered for its path cost; easiest way to do that is quick SP experiments or internet word of mouth.
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E. Albright

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1462 on: September 05, 2015, 04:12:43 am »

I do enjoy the "lines showing which provinces are linked" thing though.

Do you mean the Neighbors map filter? That was around in Dom3 too, it just was off by default, whereas now it's on by default...
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BFEL

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1463 on: September 05, 2015, 10:51:49 am »

So I had an interesting idea that seems to be working out pretty well. Specifically playing LA Caelum with a F9D9 pretender for hilarious arrowbless. I'm also pretty sure this nation/era is PERFECT for Corpse Man spam, so I'm putting all my research into construction right now. The Throne of the Moon is in this game I see, which will be awesome if I happen to get that, though murphy's law says it will probably end up being on the other side of the damn map :P

Speaking of Thrones, what are you guys personal favorites? The Moon one is quickly rushing to the top of my list.

Oh, and is anyone planning on doing any MP anytime soon? I would be interested in getting horribly wreckedplaying a game
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 10:55:48 am by BFEL »
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ArKFallen

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1464 on: September 05, 2015, 11:30:57 am »

Throne of Knowledge for the 85g Sages.
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E. Albright

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1465 on: September 05, 2015, 11:55:29 am »

Oh, and is anyone planning on doing any MP anytime soon? I would be interested in getting horribly wreckedplaying a game

Well. On the one hand, I'd not mind, as the only game I'm in now is pretty low-commitment. On the other hand, past experience suggests that I shouldn't be left alone with new players. On the third hand, I'd really like to do another NationGen game since the last fizzled out faster than expected. On the fourth hand, past experience suggests that NG shouldn't be left alone with new players. On the fifth hand, the next NG game I'd like to do would be along the lines of the "hash your forum name and play whatever garbage results" that Karlito suggested, and by eliminating the metagame of nation selection, NG becomes a lot more friendly to newer players. On the sixth hand, however, random nations are still unfriendly to new players. So I think finally on the seventh hand, I must conclude that while I personally might be up to starting a game up, I'd not really want to play one that would be accessible to newer players, and I'd suggest you just set up a thread and try to get your own rolling.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1466 on: September 05, 2015, 01:13:54 pm »

I'd be up for another game, if someone else hosts.
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BFEL

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1467 on: September 05, 2015, 05:51:23 pm »

Oh, and is anyone planning on doing any MP anytime soon? I would be interested in getting horribly wreckedplaying a game

Well. On the one hand, I'd not mind, as the only game I'm in now is pretty low-commitment. On the other hand, past experience suggests that I shouldn't be left alone with new players. On the third hand, I'd really like to do another NationGen game since the last fizzled out faster than expected. On the fourth hand, past experience suggests that NG shouldn't be left alone with new players. On the fifth hand, the next NG game I'd like to do would be along the lines of the "hash your forum name and play whatever garbage results" that Karlito suggested, and by eliminating the metagame of nation selection, NG becomes a lot more friendly to newer players. On the sixth hand, however, random nations are still unfriendly to new players. So I think finally on the seventh hand, I must conclude that while I personally might be up to starting a game up, I'd not really want to play one that would be accessible to newer players, and I'd suggest you just set up a thread and try to get your own rolling.
TBH I recently read that thread and I'm loving the idea of NationGen stuff. While I'm new to multiplayer and have issues with a lot of the aspects of the game, I don't think I'm quite in the category that you're worried about (though I'm probably totally wrong XD) but even if I am I don't really expect to WIN my first MP game.

If you're really worried about that could try the suggested "newbie disciples" thing from that thread.

Honestly my main concern about MP stuff is the simple fact that connections and ect. are fucking hard as balls to figure out, and I don't really know where to even start to go about hosting (or playing for that matter)
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Shadowlord

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1468 on: September 05, 2015, 05:52:55 pm »

Huh?
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BFEL

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1469 on: September 05, 2015, 05:55:27 pm »

Huh?

Basically in my experience computer multiplayer is weird and requires 3rd party websites and all sorts of silly bollocks. Would be awesome if Dom4 subverted that, but I don't really know if it does or not, I have no idea how to get started.
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