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[Nikov]

'Dwarfyness' is used as an arguement for nearly any sort of destructive, obscene, ridiculously complex and bloody-minded gameplay pursuit. From hydraulic cannons to executing the king because he mandates crystal glass goblets, players view these temporary blinks of sanity as 'dwarfy'. However players are never forced to construct magma moats, cook *dwarven ale roasts*, house the entire noble class in one room with an artifact gold statue, or otherwise engage in 'dwarfyness'. 'Dwarfyness' is optional.

If you want to call recreational drugs 'dwarfy', then that's a very good arguement to keep them optional. Players who prefer their dwarves to be 'dwarven' and take the dwarves as serious, hardworking, grim little hardasses will appreciate this. Remember, my point of view is not to keep you from what you want, but to keep what I want that already exists.

It makes sense that Dwarven priests and their [RELIGION_SPHERE:FIRE] would be drawn to burning plants within their mountain halls, where the smoke would build up and lo, Armok would show them the plant's inner magic...

Which, just so all is clear, amounts to smoking tobacco and discovering the plants inner magic of an addictive stimulant. Which I am totally for. Dwarves getting addicted to tobacco smoking and being happy from it but the player forced to keep up with demand sounds like fun as well as Fun. I've seen enough humans tantrum when they couldn't get a pack. Logically with pipe-smoking comes a generic 'tobacco' smokable plant, which will lend the nessicary tokens and values to mod in whatever you like. Perhaps opium temporarily gives dwarves [NOPAIN]. Maybe Berserk-Weed gives them [NOFEAR]. Have fun modding it up, I say.

So long as players can keep a fort without drugs, I have no problem with players having a fort with drugs. I just do not want to see it handled the same way alcohol is; nearly mandatory for a vanilla fort. So keep it optional, preferably switched off in the .init right from the start or non-existant until ordinary tobacco-smoking mechanics are modded around.

[Safe-Keeper]

Sorry, but for the sake of immersion and diversity I say let's allow dwarves to be dwarves, elves to be elves, and so on. Later on you'll probably have the option of playing as elves, humans or maybe even goblins in fortress mode anyhow. As it is, let's just allow dwarves to be dwarves - no skirts, lots of beard, etc. etc. etc.

[SethCreiyd]

Drawing on Tolkien as a source once more, his dwarves were among the races that grew and used pipe-weed, so being able to craft pipes and smoke plants is sufficiently dwarfy. appropriate for dwarves within established lore outside of DF.

Thanks for the correction.  Please excuse my misuse of the word.

[Urist McDepravity]

I think unified mechanics are the way to go with this.
The blood contaminant system that poisons use could be extended to include things like medicines and other drugs. Where the material came from(venom, alchemy, plants, space rocks) and how it got into your bloodstream(smoked/inhaled, eaten, chewed, injected, skin contact) are immaterial, so long as it does something to your dwarf once it's inside him.
The door for this is already open, it's just a matter of Toady coding in more  types of effects for blood contaminants, and them linking them to the material raws so that people who want stoner dwarves(pun not intended, but left intact) can put them in.

QFT.
Basically, we need 4 things:
1) More contamination effects, with many different mental effects and randomness. It should include 'positive' effects like strength increase, pain reduction, mental stimulation, AD. Then we can combine these in many FUN ways (short-term positive with long-term negative effects, for example, like mental stimulation and strength due to adrenaline, but at same time paranoia and psychosis)
2) Addiction to contaminants
3) Ability to deliver 'poisons' to dwarves/prisoners.
4) Ability to assign effects to plants/extracts and so on in raws
Then we could easily mod w/e drugs/meds we believe there should be, so purists will have no such stuff in vanilla.


Also, didn't find this in Ethernal Voting. Maybe someone should add it?

[Dvergar]

Sorry, but for the sake of immersion and diversity I say let's allow dwarves to be dwarves, elves to be elves, and so on. Later on you'll probably have the option of playing as elves, humans or maybe even goblins in fortress mode anyhow. As it is, let's just allow dwarves to be dwarves - no skirts, lots of beard, etc. etc. etc.

Dwarves already make no distinction between male/female clothes, are by nature nudists, and all dwarves hold an immensely potent phobia

This topic has really changed from OP and really isn't about just recreational drugs.  At the same time, it now fits under alchemy or medical, and does't exactly need to be mentioned onn the eternal suggestions page.

[SirHoneyBadger]

AD.

Sorry, what does 'AD' stand for? Only things I could think of, related to drug use, are alchohol dependency and attention deficit.

[de5me7]

do u recon df would get banned in Australia if it had drugs in it?

[SirHoneyBadger]

DF isn't actually for sale, per se, so is it something that would even fall under Australia's laws?

Aside from that, there's no graphic depiction of anything in the game. Banning DF because it "contains drugs" would be a bit like banning an encyclopedia.

[Kaelem Gaen]

I'm with the others who would like to see rec-drugs toggleable.  Also I see tolkien thrown around alot, maybe I'm mistaken but I though Toady was trying not to draw from tolkien, or maybe that was just the elves... -ponders.-

I also think it would be better as part of an Alchemy Arc other than say a pure "Rec-Drug Arc."
Also if we do draw on classic fantasy for the dwarves, then with them being pretty much resistant to anything that effects humans,  the drugs themselves would have to be incrediably strong for any other race that tries them. 
(Plus dwarven ale is supposed to be 20x stronger than other ale so that the dwarves can feel the drunkening effects anyways.)

[SirHoneyBadger]

You can't physically get anything 20 times stronger than even the weak commercial ales of modern times, without distillation. Barleywine would probably be the strongest example of "ale", at up to 12% alchohol volume, or 24 proof.

I also don't think that anyone here was trying to make Tolkien the banner for DF. Rather, we're using him as a primary example of drugs and drug use in even very mainstream fantasy.

[Urist McDepravity]

Sorry, what does 'AD' stand for? Only things I could think of, related to drug use, are alchohol dependency and attention deficit.

Anti-depressants, or, in that particular case, anti-depression. Or just sedative effect, altho that also implies 'slowness' and awareness reduction, so for raw effects it would be better to be separated.

[IonKitten]

If this were to happen, would we be able to get Mimosa trees? We already have real-world trees...
Now I want to mod those in or something and have a mimosa farm...
Also, if this ahppens we should include non-rec drugs, like anastasia for surgeries in the next version, or other some such practical uses. Antidepressants for the
There should also probably be negative side effects for long term use. Inhalants resulting in a deterioration of agility, due to having breath affected, or having permanent light damage to lungs,  and other such related things.

[Flaede]

anesthesia screamed in vain?

[Dvergar]

So, Salmeuk, if your still listening, can we please add a note about tying drugs/addiction to non-"crimes of passion" on the OP?  Or is everybody still opposed?

[SirHoneyBadger]

I'm not opposed to drug abuse being a criminal act in the game, but I'd rather it were a "crime against society", and that society's mores, values, economic structure, etc., than it being a "crime against humanity", like murder, rape, torture, what have you.

Subjective and objective criminal acts, in other words, or things that are viewed as crimes by an entire species, as opposed to crimes that are simply against the laws of a single society/community within that species.