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[Sutremaine]

A no-power no-mechanics design for moving goods an arbitrary distance via minecart. This design has numerous safety features.

As it appears on-screen:

Code: [Select]

                #
    #          ╔^╗           #
≡═.┼^═╔════════╝╗╚╔════════╗═^┼.═≡
≡┼.┼.^╝         ╚^╝        ╚^.┼.┼≡
     #           #          #

With the track stops removed and the direction of the ramps shown:

Code: [Select]

                #
    #          ╔╚╗           #
╔═.┼╚═╔════════╝╗╚╔════════╗═╝┼.═╗
╚┼.┼.╗╝         ╚╗╝        ╚╔.┼.┼╝
     #           #          #

For the most part the characters here are their ASCII equivalents, though I used the door character for the fortifications.

Extra notes:
# = wall must go here.
^ = unuseable ramp.

Goods are loaded into the minecart at the top left track stop, which is no-dump and highest-friction, and then the minecart is pushed off. It goes across the gap, through the fortification, past the first impulse ramp, and then passes onto the main track by derailing into the back of the SE corner ramp. This corner ramp acts as an automatic switcher / one-way system, but isn't doing anything when the cart is at this point.

The cart travels along the track for a while until it starts to slow, and then comes to the accelerator. It isn't travelling fast enough to carry straight on, so it takes the curved path past the topmost impulse ramp. With only one ramp it still isn't fast enough to derail, so it turns the corner and passes back onto the main track.

At the right hand side of the system, the cart comes to another switcher / one-way system. It's a mirror of the one to the left. This time the cart is entering the loop instead of leaving it, and takes the path offered instead of derailing in the direction it was going anyway. It passes the last impulse ramp and through two sets of fortifications, and hits the track stop to the bottom right. This one is set to dump, and has some friction. It dumps the contents of the cart onto either the floor or a waiting stockpile, and then travels to the top right track stop. This one is no-dump and highest-friction, and the cart is now in the same situation as where it started (just in a different place).

-----

This is somewhat over-engineered. You don't need any of the gaps or fortifications to make the loop work, but they stop creatures (hostile or friendly) from walking or flying onto the main track. The fortifications on the leftmost and rightmost sides are there purely for the protection of friendlies -- you need one tile of clearance for a dwarf to push a minecart across a gap, and this leaves an extra tile available for walking and industrial accidents. A fortification stops creatures but allows the minecart through.

Provided you don't go nuts with the impulse ramps, the only walls that are absolutely necessary are the ones next to the ramps. The ramps themselves may be carved or constructed, but the important part is that there must be no matching down ramp on the level above (perhaps there must be no open space as well). You can achieve this by constructing the ramp on dug floor, or by carving the ramp and then flooring over the level above, or digging the level above and putting down a stockpile or a building to block the down ramp that would normally be created upon carving.

It should be able to do level changes as well, though I haven't built any of those yet. It's roughly the same thing as running it through the accelerator section, but instead of a single impulse ramp on either route you have a bunch of down ramps on one route and a bunch of impulse ramps + normally-carved corner ramps on the other. Or you could do a straight drop with a single powered roller at the bottom, which would let you put the up/down routes within a 3x3 area.

[CaptainArchmage]

Wait these impulse ramps actually bump the cart's speed up somewhat? Does that mean rolling over a ramp and staying on the same level still increases the cart's speed?

[Urist Da Vinci]

Wait these impulse ramps actually bump the cart's speed up somewhat? Does that mean rolling over a ramp and staying on the same level still increases the cart's speed?

Yes, there is a known exploit where carts that enter "ramp track" tiles that are laid out in certain patterns will increase speed as if they had gone downhill, all while remaining on the same z-level.

[Di]

Is this tested setup? I have some doubts about making downward ramps next to empty spaces, and I don't see any reason of making a pair of fortifications instead of one on the arrival branch of rails.

[rhesusmacabre]

It should be able to do level changes as well, though I haven't built any of those yet. It's roughly the same thing as running it through the accelerator section, but instead of a single impulse ramp on either route you have a bunch of down ramps on one route and a bunch of impulse ramps + normally-carved corner ramps on the other. Or you could do a straight drop with a single powered roller at the bottom, which would let you put the up/down routes within a 3x3 area.

I've actually been playing around with impulse ramps and levels myself.  It's tricky trying to find the most efficient method because, much with the powered roller setup, a cart seems to ignore an impulse ramp if it reaches it immediately after an actual ramp.

A minecart accelerated by a number of consecutive impulse ramps travels through the following number of z-levels using corner ramps:

Spoiler: Table (click to show/hide)

rmps   z-lvls
1     5
2     6
3     9
4     10
5     12
6     14
7     15
8     16
9     17
10    19
11    20
12    20
13    21
14    22
15    23
16    24
17    24
18    25
19    26
20    27
21    28
22    28
23    29
24    29
25    31
26    31
27    33
28    33
29    33
30    34
31    34
32    36
33    36
34    37
35    38
36    38
37    39
38    39
39    39
40    40
41    40
42    41
43    42
44    42
45    43
46    43
47    44
48    44
49    44
50+   45

The maximum seems to be 45 levels. I tried it up to 63 impulse ramps, and this remained the case. If you only need the cart up fewer than this, it's probably simpler just to have a single accelerator and a 2x2 spiral ramp (although note that the corner ramps need not all be in the same direction). Any more than 45 will require additional acceleration at a higher level.

The most efficient setup, however, may be a repeating one using either 1 or 3 impulse ramps. Whether you go up 4 or 5, or 8 or 9 at a go is up to you. I've built a working system that has 3 impulse ramps followed by 8 corner ramps (going left then right 7 times) with a straight flat track just before the next impulse ramp. The main problem was that if a cart got stuck, it would roll back down to the first impulse ramp and only go up 5 levels before dropping again. For that reason, the 1 impulse ramp followed by 4 or 5 corner ramp system might be the better option. For example: impulse ramp, left corner ramp, 3x right corner ramp, straight track and repeat. I haven't built a full scale version of this yet, so can't say for certain which is quickest over many levels.

[Sutremaine]

I haven't even really thought about how to get a cart up a set of ramps without using power, though I knew before posting that it's possible. The linked design alternates the impulse ramps and the regular ramps instead of railgunning the cart up a set of regular ramps, and I'm pretty sure you could dig and carve the whole thing by abusing a stockpile's ability to stop the floor underneath it from being dug.

Is this tested setup? I have some doubts about making downward ramps next to empty spaces, and I don't see any reason of making a pair of fortifications instead of one on the arrival branch of rails.

There shouldn't be any down ramps in the design at all, only up ramps (I forgot to turn the carats into proper ramp characters). How do you mean?

The second fortification is there to reduce the number of tiles a dwarf and the minecart can share, and is purely optional. The fortifications are too, but if you're going to use gaps to stop dwarves and animals from wandering around on the track you might as well stop everything else too. From a technical viewpoint the gaps are optional too, but letting the track double as a corridor is a bad idea.

Yes, this has been tested, with the configuration shown here. The gap / fortification setup is the one I plan on using, and having a full set of hoops for the cart to jump through shows that the impulse ramps can give the cart enough speed to do that. One thing I forgot to mention: the route setup will show the two stops as not being connected, but dwarves will push the cart around and leave it at the correct stop. Thinking about it, there are some more potential issues I need to test for. 1. Will they leave the minecart where it should be if there's a stockpile for the minecart to go to? 2. Will they load a minecart on a route that's showing as disconnected? I got so wrapped up in making the physical part of it work that I forgot to test the thing I built it for.

[Di]

My first question was whether acceleration ramp give downward impulse to a minecart. The cart descends the ramp after all, even if it stays on the same level. This was the reason I've tried building impulse ramp next to an empty space. Guess now it's solved.
Second part was: "why not use this layout?"

Code: [Select]

                #
    #          ╔^╗           #
≡═.┼^═╔════════╝╗╚╔════════╗═^┼.═≡
≡┼.==^╝         ╚^╝        ╚^==.┼≡
     #           #          #


1. Will they leave the minecart where it should be if there's a stockpile for the minecart to go to?

What do you mean by "a stockpile to go to"? If the cart is assigned to route it'll stay at the stop until depart condition is fulfilled, or it's knocked off somehow in which case they'll attempt to place cart back at one of the stops (don't know which)

2. Will they load a minecart on a route that's showing as disconnected?

They will, they won't ride the cart along the disconnected route and will attempt to haul it if set to guide, but will load\unload or kick them just as in any other case.

[Sutremaine]

Second part was: "why not use this layout?"

The fortifications are there to stop fliers. It's intended for completely cutting off access. For keeping just dwarves and animals off the tracks, this should work:

Code: [Select]

               #
    #         ╔▲╗          #
≡═.═▲╔════════╝╗╚╔════════╗▲═.═≡
≡┼.═▲╝         ╚▲╝        ╚▲═.┼≡
    #           #          #
You may be able to omit the track between the gaps and the impulse ramps. I don't see any reason for an impulse ramp to not work immediately after a gap.

What do you mean by "a stockpile to go to"? If the cart is assigned to route it'll stay at the stop until depart condition is fulfilled, or it's knocked off somehow in which case they'll attempt to place cart back at one of the stops (don't know which)

I once had a route where dwarves would come and take the minecart away even though it had come to a rest on one of the stops (it wasn't a very good design overall). Whenever I've had stockpiles that would take minecarts, any stray cart would go to the stockpile before being replaced on the track. I don't have any general furniture stockpiles in the fortress with this setup, so I was wondering if the presence of stockpiles would trigger a Store Item In Stockpile job.

[Slythe]

Very neat little setup Sutremaine.  I assume the main advantage of this design over say a more standard minecart design is that you only need push this one, rather than guide it?

[Sutremaine]

You can push it off and the cart will move to its next stop as though you had rollers placed as necessary. The main advantage is not in having the route use pushing over guiding, but in being able to use pushing without having to limit route length or place rollers and their power supply.

[MDFification]

Now, if only there was a way to alter this system to launch the contents of the minecart (bonus points for captured gobbos) flying, making a dwarf railgun...

[Trev_lite]

great design.

i want to set this up in my forts for moving good around.

how many impulse ramps do you need per rise in z level?
how much distance before you need a impulse ramp booster?

also i could use some misc minecart tips and trips.
i am currently trying to get a minecart fort built that uses minecarts to move wood from outside to my wood floor and hopefully much more.

PS: any one have any screen shots of this design built?

[Hyndis]

Now, if only there was a way to alter this system to launch the contents of the minecart (bonus points for captured gobbos) flying, making a dwarf railgun...

Just make the mine cart go in circles around a track, continually and endlessly picking up speed as it travels. You could even add in multiple mine carts.

Call it the Large Goblin Collider.

For safety add in a drawbridge which could be used to block the mine carts, stopping them while you collect the giblets.

[Sutremaine]

how many impulse ramps do you need per rise in z level?
how much distance before you need a impulse ramp booster?

None of that's really been codified yet. It's pretty flexible. Rhesusmacabre has a comprehensive table above in answer to the first question, and here's a stripped-down version:

Code: [Select]

Number of levels Number of ramps
 5 1
10 4
15 7
20 11
25 18
30 25
35 32
40 41
45 50+

That's for a railgun-style approach -- you send the cart through the impulse ramps and into a 2x2 column of corner ramp tracks, and it moves up the whole column and onto level track. So, if you wanted to move a cart up 45 levels, you could either build a corridor of 50 impulse ramps and then a 45-level 2x2 column, or you could use multiple independent 5-level columns and have fewer impulse ramps and a little more flexibility in the route for threading through caverns or through the fortress itself.

Another approach is the one detailed here. Instead of accelerating the cart all at once and then sending it up through the levels all at once, you alternate the acceleration and the level changes. There are some diagrams there, but not in ASCII. For a 3x3 elevator running clockwise around a central staircase, one level looks like this on-screen:

Code: [Select]

#####
#▼▲▲#
#+X##
#####
#####

And with the track directions shown:

Code: [Select]

#####
#.╚╗#
#+X##
#####
#####

And then you go up a level and do the whole thing again, rotated 90 degrees clockwise. You don't need the floor there if you're constructing the ramp, as the construction doesn't affect the level above it. (You need a floor over the impulse ramp, however you create the ramp.)

Based on the same rhesusmacabre post above, the design could use a little examination to check that it works over >5 levels instead of the 3 shown in the video of the linked post. If it doesn't, I've got a couple of other designs to test.

also i could use some misc minecart tips and trips.
i am currently trying to get a minecart fort built that uses minecarts to move wood from outside to my wood floor and hopefully much more.

I don't really have any tested tips for wood. It's kind of a pain to move via minecart, as it starts scattered around the map and each minecart only hold 10 logs, so usually I just haul it in manually. However, if I made the effort to set up a minecart system for surface wood, it would have numerous separate collection stations, each with its own track running into a central depot. At the central depot, either logs would be dropped off or the track would start heading down to the woodworking area.

This network is created underground, where it can be carved, and defaults to being flat track.

The collection station looks like this:

Code: [Select]

#######
#<====########
#<====≡═.┼╚═╔═ -> to fortress
#<====╚┼.┼.╗╝#
##############
Pretty simple. You have stairs to the surface, a wood stockpile of whatever size that feeds into the minecart, and the minecart is pushed off (or ridden; you can do that even with disconnected routes) whenever it gets full. There's no second track stop in this loop because nothing needs to be dropped off here... though you may need a second track stop to slow the cart down enough to be caught by the loading track stop.

Here's another way of doing it:

Code: [Select]

####### #####
#<====###╔^╗#####
#<===O≡═.╝╗╚╔.┼.═ -> to fortress
#<====####╚^╝####
#######  #####
This works for manual unloading, or for goods that only transport items one way. There's a gap to stop dwarves from wandering into the track corridor, then an accelerator, then a gap-fortification-gap to stop fliers. I had a setup once that had the fortification and gaps directly after the push-off, but one year it just stopped clearing both gaps. No idea why. The layout hadn't changed, the minecart hadn't changed... nothing. So I won't suggest that layout.

As for the central depot... I have a plan I made in Paint, but it's both fairly incomprehensible as-is and untested. It drops off the logs in a 5x5 area instead of keeping them on the cart and dropping the track down to the woodworking workshops. I don't wanna test it; I'll get distracted from the fortress I'm playing.

[OcelotTango]

An interesting note. If you have an unusable ramp that faces SEW and you come from the north, if 2 of those directions are blocked off it will impulse ramp in the free direction.