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Author Topic: Dwarven cognitive sciences report  (Read 10048 times)

Di

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Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« on: August 18, 2011, 10:45:17 pm »

Consciousness and harm it causes to a breeding.

My fellow gentledorfs, today I'd like to present you my report on such an important matter as dwarven breeding. Forgive me if it all was said before, but, I presume, this information isn't what is known to the bone to community and thus bears repeating.

Where do we begin, in order to get a children, two individuals must get married, thats a rule. Getting two unfamiliar dwarves to pair is long and inconvenient process. Luckily for them, pregnancies aren't the only one source of population in a fortress, being accompanied by constant flow of migrants. Besides, when they do get up to it, dwarven women start churning out babies like rock mugs. However, for races relying on wast numbers, or those with disproportional gender distribution this is a serious impediment to flourishing and thus must be overcome.
Let's start our search from what happens in intelligent beings heads that prevents them from doing everything possible for kind preservation, what makes them different from darwin responsible animals.

Experiment 1. Dog civilization.
Simply replaced dwarves in their entity with dogs.
Results: No jobs can be assigned, they breed just fine.

Experiment 2. Adding CAN_SPEAK and CAN_LEARN tags.
Now they need to eat and drink (due to the first tag, just pointing out that the wiki is true
about that, also I'd like to add that you can't change jobs, draft or noble a creature incapable of
 communication.
). Still no jobs could be assigned.

Experiment 3. Taking out pet related tags.
Results are promising. Jobs in, breeding out.

Now it is obvious that getting civilized has something to do with loosing of bucking freedom. Lets blame it onto women emancipation, for a starter.

Experiment 4. Back to stables.
Placing pet related tags to a female caste and intelligence ones to male.
This is a triumph.
summary:
They breed.
Men: standard citizen behavior including feeding requirements.
Women: behave as pet would. It's worth noting that they're shown on embark screen and you can mark them for adoption or butchering.
Spoiler: experiment log (click to show/hide)

Experiment 5. Feministic revolution.
Now women run world.
Predicable fail.
1 year run, no births whatsoever, females got some friends (other females only). While this is reasonable course of actions considering shortage of resources, somethings tells me that reason wasn't what caused this behavior.

Experiment 6, Woman, know your place.
They're pets but are allowed to speak and go to school. Pack has grown over 80 before promptly starving out.
Success. Just as planned.
Actually, that's how tigermen work. (Now it's obvious, after all we got through)
Everyone breeds, have names and is valid target for nobling. Though, in my impression, breeding was faster in fourth experiment and now you could butcher them at will.

As a summary, the results are pretty self-explaining, if womens 'only after we get married' thing leads to depopulation of your creatures, you know what to do. Via cunning use of this method one can create hives, concubines and slaves, though the last one might need extensive use of Therapist. Or someone could use this feature to bring a catmod to a new degree of awesome.

Also, this means that every tag could be caste specific and is worth testing. Who knows, maybe by using REGIONAL_FORCE and assorted religion tags we could create a worshiped castes, like ethereal tau.
If there is anyone willing to verify or elaborate my experiments or to update wiki articles on related notes, you are welcome here.
Well, thank you for attention, now I bid your farewell till our next meeting.

upd:
Here's how these tags work:
[pet] - makes creature show up on animals z-list, allows premarital impregnation and trading creatures.
Creature without [can_learn] and [can_speak] tags is simply friendly unit contributing only to breeding. You can assign rooms to any creature of the main race, creatures will develop relationships to any members of their race even not speaking ones.
[can_learn] - allows drafting and nobling provided you have someone who [can_speak] in your civ.
[can_speak] - enables labor menu. You can't view nobles mandates if he cannot speak.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 08:36:19 am by Di »
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DrPoo

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Re: Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2012, 05:11:55 pm »

This would make any college liberal feminist freak out.
Our game would get public recognition as "THE EVIL MISOGYNISTICAL SATANIC GAME OF BRAINWASHING WOMEN TO SUBMISSION TO ALLOW  SATANIC PREMARITAL IMPREGNATION!"
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2012, 06:47:18 pm »

So the PET token allows us to buy/sell the PET dwarves? Can you request more of them from the caravan?

Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2012, 12:21:21 am »

Yes, the pet dwarves will even do Hauling labors and cleaning.
Even enlistment to the army, I used this technique for making "mercinaries"
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Tierre

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Re: Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2012, 06:11:59 am »

oh mercenaries:) And of course Meph's concubines... I need to try that then i am home:):):)
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Bohandas

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Re: Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2012, 12:18:19 pm »

This is pretty cool.
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silverskull39

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Re: Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2012, 11:18:42 am »

I wonder if married dwarves will still impregnate "pet" dwarves if you have two female castes (one pet and one normal)? Talk about screwing the pooch....

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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2012, 11:40:44 am »

This...
This is impressive.
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Quietust

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Re: Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2012, 07:10:49 pm »

[pet] - allows premarital impregnation
This is 100% consistent with my observations from previous versions - back in the old 2D versions, creatures could only become pregnant if they were either tameable (having [PET] or having [PET_EXOTIC] with the Dungeon Master present) and within the population limit (50, such that the child:adult ratio is less than 3:1) or if they were of the fortress's primary race (i.e. dwarf) and civilization (i.e. yours) and were married and were capable of pathing to their spouse (i.e. no locked doors).
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It's amazing how dwarves can make a stack of bones completely waterproof and magmaproof.
It's amazing how they can make an entire floodgate out of the bones of 2 cats.

Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2012, 10:54:46 am »

were capable of pathing to their spouse (i.e. no locked doors).

This explains why creatures with IMMOBILE cannot breed in fortress mode.
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Quietust

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Re: Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2012, 12:34:19 pm »

were capable of pathing to their spouse (i.e. no locked doors).

This explains why creatures with IMMOBILE cannot breed in fortress mode.
Actually, no it doesn't - all it does is check the "path node ID" for each dwarf's current location and make sure they're the same, unless Toady added some additional logic there for immobile creatures...
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It's amazing how dwarves can make a stack of bones completely waterproof and magmaproof.
It's amazing how they can make an entire floodgate out of the bones of 2 cats.

Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2012, 12:43:21 pm »

Toady must have done something to make the AI think that it is stuck in a box (no pathing options) altho he did not disable "charging" during attacks.

But i've done tests and creatures with IMMOBILE do not activate breeding, Which makes my "spawning pits" idea useless.

Less of course next update toady fixes this?

(btw it does not matter if 1 or both breeding pairs have IMMOBILE just if 1 has it, they will not breed. I think I posted my findings in i2amroy's science thread)
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2012, 06:25:34 pm »

You know that sponges are genderless, right?
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Quietust

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Re: Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2012, 06:32:53 pm »

You know that sponges are genderless, right?
You know that it's possible to add [IMMOBILE] to creatures other than sponges, right?
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Dwarven cognitive sciences report
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2012, 06:36:50 pm »

Yes, but it seemed like the likeliest thing, since I have no clue what is going on.
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