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There was a thread that got derailed fast and hard. Namely, this one.I go on vacation and the whole frakking thread comes apart at the seams.
For this whole "freedom of speech" thing.What I would like is if everyone thought as we did on the subject of basic freedoms, although for them to tolerate us would be an acceptable second-best.
Forumsdwarf I understand that you'd like that it is what these war are about.
Unfortunately, I have to point out that it have never been part of the US agenda."Never" is a pretty broad generalization, which should clue you in right off the bat that you've said something regrettable. Rather than rub your nose in it I'll let you do the research and feel the shame in private.
First point : mainstream Islam is not for censorshipIt's really a question of percentages, isn't it? If you grabbed a random Muslim off the streets and said, "If you had the power to burn every last copy of The Satanic Verses would you do it?" How many would say, "Yes?" I don't know the answer to that question, and frankly neither do you.
And that is one case, in one organization. Beside his conclusion has been validated by other expert."Expert" Nazi-sympathizers agreeing with each other ... what a shock! A completely one-sided condemnation of Israeli "human rights violations" can't be far behind ... because every expert knows it's only a war crime if Israel does it.
Burning civilian with white phosphorus for nor reason is a must bigger crime than censoring piglet.Do you ever bother to research the propaganda you've been spoon-fed before you regurgitate it? Israeli WP rounds are used for illumination, not as anti-personnel weapons. We used it extensively, too, until our NV gear got so good we were better off in the dark.
third point: You don't even make sense . Why would pen need backup from something weaker.Why do axles need wheels? The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
I'm casting my lot with Feudalism, and I want to know who's with me or against me.
No actually, you cannot win this terror war.Every day that Salman Rushdie, Matt Stone, Trey Parker, Ayaan Hirsi-Ali, and others like them continue to publish we win another victory in our ongoing War on Terror.
As for Israel internal policy, let's say that each and every human right movement are condemning it.In between fawning over their collections of Nazi memorabilia.
But I will let you in your dream world were you "fight the good war" on the "bad guys".The life of letters is often abstract, but it is also said the pen is mightier than the sword. While in the long arc of history that has proven to be true, the pen needs to call for backup now and again.
This. This is exactly why terrorists are killing people. If they fight long and hard enough, soon American society will reform and adopt their ways. It's gonna be a long war, boys.If both sides believe this (and they seem to do), then yes, it won't be over for a loooong time.
I know this guy just pulled this right out of his ignorant arse, but I just cant resist saying it is complete and utter nonsense; just plain not true.Realy if the US was so big about its ideals it would have stopped supporting Israel a long time ago.On the contrary, Israel has freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and on top of all that freedom to choose sexual orientation. No other country in the Middle East comes close. Israel is perfectly aligned with our values; we would be foolish not to form an alliance.
Yes, killing thousands and wasting billions on fighting futile wars is OK as long as you have Piglet!As long as we have Piglet the wars are not futile.
Yeah right. Your a fool to believe the US is doing what its doing out of idealism. They are in it for political and financial gainWell, obviously. Freedom of speech is a political concept, so clearly we are fighting for political goals.
Realy if the US was so big about its ideals it would have stopped supporting Israel a long time ago.On the contrary, Israel has freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and on top of all that freedom to choose sexual orientation. No other country in the Middle East comes close. Israel is perfectly aligned with our values; we would be foolish not to form an alliance.
And if I understand correctelly you are trying to make 'council office removes things which may offend muslim immigrants' with 'brittish gouvernment capitulates under extremist islam'. If that realy makes sense in your head then there realy is no reasoning with you.To an American censorship is capitulation. You are correct: on this topic there is no reasoning with us. We Americans are as committed to freedom of speech as fundamentalist Muslims are to censorship.
I meant that in the sense that it was the last piece of the puzzle falling into place. But of course the puzzle changes over time, and one must remain current, so your point is taken.is all I need to understandYou don't need more to understand? In fact, by claiming you already understand you can be sure you probably don't.
And you do know that the strong horse theory was posted by Osama bin Laden, right?"Know your enemy."
Forumsdwarf - just out of interest, what in the hell are you talking about? Piglet is censored over here... what?? And they're trying to stop us buying war bonds?Hee hee, I sometimes forget the non-American audience isn't entirely familiar with American culture.
I am... seriously confused.
A conspiracy theory? We knew they were using our medical supplies to make weapons and that's why we let them have the medical supplies ... until we cut them off? Give me a break. If we'd wanted to help Saddam make biological weapons we would've done it. Instead we sent medical supplies, found out Saddam was misusing them, cut off the supply, and now face terrorism for doing the right thing.While it was naive of us to provide medical supplies of such a sensitive nature they had nothing to do with the chemical weapons Saddam actually used in combat.They knew, therefore it was evil, not stupidity (for a change).
Singapore and Brazil were the biggest suppliers ... ahh, but that doesn't fit your narrative. As excuses for terrorism go, though, it's pretty close to the kinds of things Osama comes up with.QuoteThe WMD's Saddam actually used -- mostly mustard gas with some assorted nerve gasses thrown in -- didn't come from us. Had he dropped an anthrax bomb things would be different, but he didn't. Nice try.Ah, but they were paid for by US money, and delivered by US allies (germany, france, italy).
According to retired Army Colonel W. Patrick Lang, senior defense intelligence officer for the United States Defense Intelligence Agency at the time ... the Defense Intelligence Agency were secretly providing detailed information on Iranian deployments ...That we provided some intel was never at issue. The issue was where Saddam got his chemical weapons, and it wasn't from us. Feel free to accuse us of something completely different and somehow try to use that to "prove" your farcical allegations. I'd hate for you to break with precedent.
So, although you're technically correct, you're wurming your way through a shithole where there's no exit.If I'm technically correct, that leaves you ignorant and incorrect. Nice spin, though. You're doing the best you can with a losing argument.
And going from attacking the actual guilty people to attack the entire group those people belong to is something you yourself seem to condone.And you still don't understand: what I'm attacking, and you can include yourself and the other apologists along with the mainstream Muslims, are the excuses you constantly make for terrorism -- on fabricated evidence, as it turns out. So, you make up lies then justify terrorist attacks in the name of those lies and it is that for which I offer unapologetic condemnation.
That's your reasoning they are using. You are exactly like those you oppose, yet you and them both think you're so different.You don't even understand my reasoning. You're embarrassing yourself.
My mother caught me with her porn stash.Holy s -- your mom has a porn stash? That's ... that's just awesome ... if I found out my gf had a porn stash I'd marry her.
I shat bricks.
Wait, if you could torture someone that would imply they were already subdued.You actually knew that? That's pretty cool.
If they aren't anyone in the house it wouldn't work, but if you had anyone living there, you'd be fine.
Also, it says "any degree of physical force"
The military calls torture a physical force, so you could, in essence, torture someone for entering your property until such point that they no longer have any desire to go on your property again.
How's that for a gray area?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
"On May 25 1994, the U.S. Senate Banking Committee released a report in which it was stated that "pathogenic (meaning 'disease producing'), toxigenic (meaning 'poisonous'), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce." It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."[30]First, I never mentioned biological weapons, second, Iraq never used them, and third, once we realized the medical supplies we were sending were being used to make WMD's we stopped shipments.
The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Bacillus anthracis) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."[31]
Donald Riegle, Chairman of the Senate committee that authored the aforementioned Riegle Report, said:
U.N. inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs. ... The executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record.
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control sent Iraq 14 separate agents "with biological warfare significance," according to Riegle's investigators.[32]" wikipedia
also http://www.iraqwatch.org/suppliers/whoarmediraq.pdf and http://www.iraqwatch.org/suppliers/nyt-041303.gif
USSR is uninvolved in Iraq's chemicals weapon program. It has been backed by the nato. And China, and India, and ... Brazil for some reason.
Here's a legal gray area to ponder:
What if you've built a booby-trap that can only be activated by deliberate trigger? ... lawyers will call it "The Dwarf Fortress Defense" ...
In colorado, yes. If the Booby trap is controlled by a human, it is legal.
