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Author Topic: Dwarven Riot Control  (Read 1933 times)

Johann Canteloupe

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Dwarven Riot Control
« on: December 28, 2014, 05:24:31 pm »

Hey all,

I've recently started a new fort, which is partly situated under a waterfall (the living quarters are, at least).

The fort entrance is currently positioned below a waterfall, and as such, I was wondering if it was possible to develop a combination of reservoirs and pumps in order to develop a water cannon to throw enemies out the entrance to there (hopeful) deaths.

Alllternatively, would anyone know how possible it would be to get the pressure so high that if an enemy was to be pushed into a wall (say an upright bridge) that the concussive blast would be enough to injure them? I that works it might make a cool Goblin Nutcracker.

As another thing, more as a general inquiry, I'm thinking of hooking this up to my Dining Room (and dorm, and other high congregation places) to blast dwarfs into cages at the side of a room if, sorry, when a tantrum spiral starts to break out. A hydrodynamic time-out, if you will. :P Would that be possible/useful?

Tl;dr Does anyone know if it's possible to ramp up water pressure so high that it becomes a weapon for concussion and crowd control.

Thanks!

Jo Canteloupe
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Lord_lemonpie

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Re: Dwarven Riot Control
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2014, 06:11:05 pm »

I know that it is possible to fill minecarts with water and fire them at enemies, but i have no idea if it's possible to do that with normal water. PTW to see the results.
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Naryar

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Re: Dwarven Riot Control
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2014, 06:18:58 pm »

I hear water pushers are possible. Make a trench, connect a water reservoir (many z-levels high) to one of the sides of the trench, and open the floodgates.

Minecart water guns are also possible, but it doesn't push enemies.

Magistrum

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Re: Dwarven Riot Control
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2014, 06:21:41 pm »

Thanks lemonpie! I have a seizure whenever you ascend to the upper forums!


Okay... Well, throwing enemies around with water works very well with smaller and/or non-swimming   enemies, so, no problems here.
Ihave played around with water pressure quite a bit, but to make them 'receive the full impact of the blow' they must first be turned into an flying object, like when you jump or a cave-in/hammer lord throws you around, and water doesn't do that yet... At least didn't worked for me, I used a river and some pumps...
About the hydrodynamic time-out... Well, possible? Yes. Useful? No, but that never stopped any of us here...



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Nikow

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Re: Dwarven Riot Control
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2014, 06:44:31 pm »

In some earlier for i had 2water cannons. They made awesome things like pushing away even trolls to sink hole, who was leading to first caverns. You need just a presurized by pumps water, who will be working whole time and just relase this water on enemies. Water as is only pushing enemies in some direction, but connected with trap hallway is awesome. Enemies doesnt wat go by 7x7 drowning chamber
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CaptainLambcake

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Re: Dwarven Riot Control
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2014, 11:33:19 pm »

Thanks lemonpie! I have a seizure whenever you ascend to the upper forums!


Okay... Well, throwing enemies around with water works very well with smaller and/or non-swimming   enemies, so, no problems here.
Ihave played around with water pressure quite a bit, but to make them 'receive the full impact of the blow' they must first be turned into an flying object, like when you jump or a cave-in/hammer lord throws you around, and water doesn't do that yet... At least didn't worked for me, I used a river and some pumps...
About the hydrodynamic time-out... Well, possible? Yes. Useful? No, but that never stopped any of us here...

u made me giggle
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Aslandus

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Re: Dwarven Riot Control
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2014, 11:46:43 pm »

While there are several reasons you might want to flood your dining room, I don't think riot control is one of them. After all, if you jam all your dwarves into cages, who's going to let them out?

omega_dwarf

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Re: Dwarven Riot Control
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2014, 11:48:19 pm »

In some earlier for i had 2water cannons. They made awesome things like pushing away even trolls to sink hole, who was leading to first caverns. You need just a presurized by pumps water, who will be working whole time and just relase this water on enemies. Water as is only pushing enemies in some direction, but connected with trap hallway is awesome. Enemies doesnt wat go by 7x7 drowning chamber

This is what I was thinking. Water probably wouldn't kill them, but pushing them into something nasty certainly could.

There's another way you could weaponize it: you could dump (d->b->d) a bunch of stone onto the very edge tiles above the waterfall, where the water flows off, and dam the river farther upstream. Invaders coming? Unleash the flood and drop some rocks, almost Rivendell style. (Or XXsocksXX; they work just as well.)

Dwarf4Explosives

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Re: Dwarven Riot Control
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2014, 05:47:25 am »

While there are several reasons you might want to flood your dining room, I don't think riot control is one of them. After all, if you jam all your dwarves into cages, who's going to let them out?
You could solve this problem with the "fluid-passable bridge" glitch, if that still exists.

This is quite possible. Having looked one of these up once, I can say that, without a doubt, a ten-z-level tall 3x3 cistern with a single exit should be capable of killing goblins. If you make it taller and wider, say, 30-z-levels and 10x10, it should probably be capable of killing anything you want it to.
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Arx

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Re: Dwarven Riot Control
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2014, 11:33:24 am »

but to make them 'receive the full impact of the blow' they must first be turned into an flying object, like when you jump or a cave-in/hammer lord throws you around, and water doesn't do that yet...

The obvious solution is to use a retracting bridge to drop all enemies a z-level at the same time as firing the cannon. Practical? Not even slightly. Awesome? Probably.
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Vattic

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Re: Dwarven Riot Control
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2014, 03:24:34 pm »

In my experience pressurised water doesn't push creatures exactly. I had a massive cistern above my entrance with the aim of pushing goblins into a pit outside, but instead the water would instantly fill the tunnel around the invaders and not push them. It's because of how pressure causes water to teleport rather than flow and you need flowing water to move items / creatures. I had better luck with a slower shallower flow.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 03:38:19 pm by Vattic »
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Magistrum

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Re: Dwarven Riot Control
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2014, 03:35:35 pm »

I think the pressure ends up working like the minecarts which can cross each other and not hit because they are so fast they teleport past one another, moving multiple tiles per tick.
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Sadrice

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Re: Dwarven Riot Control
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2015, 06:14:11 am »

Water does not throw creatures but it can push them, but pressure does not push them.  Creatures are only pushed by flowing water less than 7/7 depth.  At 7/7 pressure takes over, which involves teleportation of water from the top of the water column to the bottom.  This has nothing to do with the high velocity of the water a la minecarts, but is just a programming trick to allow large bodies of water to not be too much of a resource hog.  The body of water is treated as one continuous unit, and 1/7 pieces of water are freely teleported from the top to the bottom without worrying about pathing in between.  Meaning it never touches a creature in the way.

So if you want to push enemies and elves off your entrance, use shallow water.  The easiest way to do this is to put pressurized water (from a pump or water source on a higher level) through a "grate" of diagonals (pressure is only N S E W Up Down, no diagonals) to produce constant flowing water.

Again, this only pushes, it does not throw.  You can push them off a cliff to their splattery doom, or onto cage traps, or spikes, or into a pit for later rinsing with magma to wash away all things that aren't iron.

If you want to throw your enemies so they splatter against a wall, you need blunt impact.  Minecarts work well for the purpose, and can be made more potent by loading them with dense or sharp things.

The diagonal pressure reducing grate trick has many other uses, like keeping cisterns filled from a water source on a higher level without complex plumbing or risk of flooding, or making dwarf permeable flood control screening (diagonal checkerboards of columns forming screens also allow invaders to approach your dwarves without having line of sight to use crossbows).
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