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Author Topic: Knockback: Slight alteration to combat model.  (Read 4398 times)

Keiseth

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Re: Knockback: Slight alteration to combat model.
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2008, 06:21:05 pm »

This is an excellent idea and I support it fully. It would change the way we go about combat (in Adventurer mode, at the very least) due to worrying about more than just damage.

I wonder if it will allow the chance for a kitten to get a hilariously awesome dice roll to send a goblin sailing backwards into the firmament.

It also allows something else with awesome potential: large fights on very long, narrow bridges (probably Fortress made). The mighty Dwarven adventurer strikes down each approaching opponent with his hammer, sending them off the bridge and to a rocky death.
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Captain Mayday

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Re: Knockback: Slight alteration to combat model.
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2008, 01:04:05 am »

Seems like knockback would actually be more likely if an attack is blocked; if a spear hits you and isn't blocked, it runs you through. If it's blocked by your armor, it's basically the equivalent of a weak blunt attack across the entire affected armor surface, if I properly understand how armor works.
So a blocked attack of any stripe (bludgeon/piercing/slashing/gore) turns into a weaker bludgeon attack? You could then add another stat to weapons about the efficiency of the conversion (whips would be terrible, hammers quite good). And some weapons (spears especially) would have a chance to bend and shields could buckle against impressive hits...
I get way to excited about tweaks to combat. What can I say?

ALSO, to bartavelle about adding Z-levels, I have nothing to say except "look at meeee". Ah, narcissism.

Excellent idea.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Knockback: Slight alteration to combat model.
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2008, 03:56:42 am »

It also allows something else with awesome potential: large fights on very long, narrow bridges (probably Fortress made). The mighty Dwarven adventurer strikes down each approaching opponent with his hammer, sending them off the bridge and to a rocky death.

You can kinda do this already.  I built a 30-tile long bridge for the HFS bad guys to escape along and stationed my legendary hammerdwarf there with his artifact adamantine plate and exceptional adamantine hammer.  He murdered about two dozen tentacle demons, and lots of those went flying off the bridge into the chamber below, or at least pieces of them did.

Goblin hammerlords can also be really nasty on bridges.  I lost a couple good dwarves to drowning after one batted them into the moat.
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Jetman123

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Re: Knockback: Slight alteration to combat model.
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2008, 06:29:58 am »

Hell, a _charge_ should have a possible result of not only knocking someone prone but pushing them back. If they block your weapon attack, they might not fall down, or they might fall down anyway. If they have a shield, they might block your body with the shield, 300-style, and hold you back with it - and then, depending on who's stronger or more skilled in Wrestling, someone gets knocked back.
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Captain Mayday

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Re: Knockback: Slight alteration to combat model.
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2008, 11:41:10 am »

My thoughts are that if knockback were applied in that circumstance, it would only be to the character being charged.
The charging character, if they fell, would only be knocked down.
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Jetman123

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Re: Knockback: Slight alteration to combat model.
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2008, 09:07:53 pm »

Well, with a shield, one would think you could block their charging motion with the shield, and then push them back with said shield. Maybe only one square.
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Deon

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Re: Knockback: Slight alteration to combat model.
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2008, 09:48:20 pm »

Shouldn't they?

If they are lighter I do not see how it can do more bludgeoning damage.
They are also harder and stronger.
F=ma
m=pV (p = density) => lighter = less dense => less F => less damage

Well, actually we can count F=PxS (P = pressure, S = square) so if we count on adamantine items to be very sharp while light they may do much more damage; but if we accept bludgeoning damage as something made by blunt strike (or absorbed by armor thus greatly increasing effective square) then we end with far less damage.
The only thing that may allow adamantine to have 500% damage value is the magic.

Your school physics knowledge isn't that great, mr. Artillety, ballista and catapult division. Train harder =).
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Footkerchief

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Re: Knockback: Slight alteration to combat model.
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2008, 01:15:03 am »

Shouldn't they?

If they are lighter I do not see how it can do more bludgeoning damage.
They are also harder and stronger.
F=ma
m=pV (p = density) => lighter = less dense => less F => less damage

Well, actually we can count F=PxS (P = pressure, S = square) so if we count on adamantine items to be very sharp while light they may do much more damage; but if we accept bludgeoning damage as something made by blunt strike (or absorbed by armor thus greatly increasing effective square) then we end with far less damage.
The only thing that may allow adamantine to have 500% damage value is the magic.

Your school physics knowledge isn't that great, mr. Artillety, ballista and catapult division. Train harder =).

It may be unrealistic but it's just an extension of how the game already works.  Adamantine hammers weigh almost nothing but do ridiculous bludgeoning damage.
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Draco18s

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Re: Knockback: Slight alteration to combat model.
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2008, 02:02:10 am »

It's magic.
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RavingManiac

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Re: Knockback: Slight alteration to combat model.
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2008, 02:35:50 am »

Adamantine has partial antigrav, see. Its mass is far greater than its weight. Imagine wielding a hammer on the moon.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2008, 02:44:25 am by RavingManiac »
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Techhead

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Re: Knockback: Slight alteration to combat model.
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2008, 08:24:33 am »

Clarification and counterpoints:
1. You can swing a lighter sword faster, so that you have comparable kinetic energy.
2. A harder and stronger sword can transmit more of its kinetic energy, so that less is wasted by the spring of the sword absorbing the force.
3. Adamantine is a magical metal originally used by the gods to seal away demons. Of course a weapon made of it has magical properties.
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