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[Owlbread]

Hm... sort of like how the US has say, Hawaiians, Alaskans, then among the lower 48 you can divide the country between westerners, easterners, and southerners, and then it divides further?  Granted, probably not quite the same.  But when someone moves from one extreme part of the country to the other, they tend to stick out.

Much deeper. More like between native americans, black people and white people. Times that by 18 and you get the picture.

[lorb]

I wonder, if China and Russia suddenly allow gay marriage... would the US enter a freedom's race of sorts?

I know it's not a completely serious question, but there's no chance in hell Russia ever allows gay marriage. The place is more conservative than the US. They've passed laws forbidding people from "spreading gay propaganda" (which basically amounts to doing anything remotely gay in public) and such over there.

In some cities, yes. On the national level: not yet. The law passed the first hurdle (with the whole duma approving except 1 abstention) and has to pass duma two more times after which it will be signed into law by mr. putin. But maybe if you write a nice letter telling him it's not okay to oppress homosexuals he won't sign?

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[Nilik]

It's not completely impossible for China, though. It all depends on how their politics swing. If the CCP gets more people who are a certain kind of communist/socialist they might see it as making people more equal, but more likely they'll reject it on the basis of being "un-Chinese".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you be executed for homosexuality in China?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It's not completely impossible for China, though. It all depends on how their politics swing. If the CCP gets more people who are a certain kind of communist/socialist they might see it as making people more equal, but more likely they'll reject it on the basis of being "un-Chinese".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you be executed for homosexuality in China?

No. Legalized in 1997, removed from mental disorder list in 2001, no history of executions about it specifically but there isn't much data. Current government policy towards homosexuals and same-sex marriage is 不支持, 不反对, 不提倡, which translates to: no approval, no disapproval, and no promotion. Like many things, China appears to be trying to ignore it until people approve of it, at which point they will grant it and portray themselves as amazing leaders for doing so.

[Sirus]

Kinda like the U.S. military with their now-defunct "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" rule?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Not exactly. Clinton signed DADT despite his liberal attitude because the population was firmly against homosexuals serving in the millitary (weird how much opinions can change in 15 years, eh?), but it did one very important thing: You still couldn't serve if you were a homosexual, which appeased the conservatives, but....it made a de jure (if sometimes ignored) ban on investigating members of the military for homosexuality, which (slightly) appeased the liberals. Thus, the rickety bipartisan USS DADT was launched and promptly hit an iceberg as homosexuality became culturally accepted over the next decade.

You know, it almost makes me wonder.......

Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act too.... And now its going to the Supreme Court..... And it's so blatently in violation of the Equal Protection Clause.....


.....that tricky fucking bastard.

[Sirus]

Kinda what I meant. They instituted DADT as a way to kinda sweep the issue under the rug (which appeased no side but at least stopped them from bickering too much), and over the years it became more and more accepted. Finally, DADT was overruled and it's perfectly fine.

In a similar way:

Like many things, China appears to be trying to ignore it until people approve of it, at which point they will grant it and portray themselves as amazing leaders for doing so.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Well, DADT is less sweeping under the rug than it was a minor reform. US conservatives would have been fine keeping the ban and continuing to allow investigation of suspected homosexuals. China is ignoring the issue right out, as an official government policy that says "we're choosing to ignore this".

[Sheb]

Which kind of make sense from their point of view. Don't do anything that might anger anyone.

[RedKing]

It's not completely impossible for China, though. It all depends on how their politics swing. If the CCP gets more people who are a certain kind of communist/socialist they might see it as making people more equal, but more likely they'll reject it on the basis of being "un-Chinese".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you be executed for homosexuality in China?

No. Legalized in 1997, removed from mental disorder list in 2001, no history of executions about it specifically but there isn't much data. Current government policy towards homosexuals and same-sex marriage is 不支持, 不反对, 不提倡, which translates to: no approval, no disapproval, and no promotion. Like many things, China appears to be trying to ignore it until people approve of it, at which point they will grant it and portray themselves as amazing leaders for doing so.

That's pretty much accurate. If there's any repression of homosexuality in China, it's cultural rather than legal. It's no big deal in the major coastal cities (there are blatant gay bars in Beijing, Shanghai, Hangzhou, Tianjin, etc.) but it would be a much tougher thing for an LGBT Chinese in a rural village. You gotta figure...it's a 5000-year old culture, it's not like homosexuality is a modern invention. So it's recognized even in classical literature, and not all that negatively. But at the same time, you have this weird thing where the court eunuchs became villainized and homosexuality and transvestitism are associated with black magic. You still see that today in Chinese (and Thai and Korean and Japanese) film, where bad guys often have high-pitched giggly voices (or in the case of Tony Jaa's Tom yum goong was a transvestite played by an actual transvestite.)

There's actual some sociological work predicting that homosexuality may increase in China over the near-future simply because of the male-female ratio imbalance. The thought is that too many guys who simply can't find a date might cause some of them to broaden their selection pool.

[lorb]

The thought is that too many guys who simply can't find a date might cause some of them to broaden their selection pool.

Kind of like situational homosexuality that can often be observed in prisons.

[Scoops Novel]

It's not completely impossible for China, though. It all depends on how their politics swing. If the CCP gets more people who are a certain kind of communist/socialist they might see it as making people more equal, but more likely they'll reject it on the basis of being "un-Chinese".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you be executed for homosexuality in China?

No. Legalized in 1997, removed from mental disorder list in 2001, no history of executions about it specifically but there isn't much data. Current government policy towards homosexuals and same-sex marriage is 不支持, 不反对, 不提倡, which translates to: no approval, no disapproval, and no promotion. Like many things, China appears to be trying to ignore it until people approve of it, at which point they will grant it and portray themselves as amazing leaders for doing so.

That's pretty much accurate. If there's any repression of homosexuality in China, it's cultural rather than legal. It's no big deal in the major coastal cities (there are blatant gay bars in Beijing, Shanghai, Hangzhou, Tianjin, etc.) but it would be a much tougher thing for an LGBT Chinese in a rural village. You gotta figure...it's a 5000-year old culture, it's not like homosexuality is a modern invention. So it's recognized even in classical literature, and not all that negatively. But at the same time, you have this weird thing where the court eunuchs became villainized and homosexuality and transvestitism are associated with black magic. You still see that today in Chinese (and Thai and Korean and Japanese) film, where bad guys often have high-pitched giggly voices (or in the case of Tony Jaa's Tom yum goong was a transvestite played by an actual transvestite.)

There's actual some sociological work predicting that homosexuality may increase in China over the near-future simply because of the male-female ratio imbalance. The thought is that too many guys who simply can't find a date might cause some of them to broaden their selection pool.

Much like witch burning, one only wishes this worked in a "better lord of hell" way. If they can do black magic, then why are you fucking about with pitchforks?

[10ebbor10]

Black magic is overrated anyway.

[Dutchling]

~~!!~~!!~~ PINK MAGIC IS FOR THE FABULOUS WIN ~~!!~~!!~~

[GlyphGryph]

The thought is that too many guys who simply can't find a date might cause some of them to broaden their selection pool.

Kind of like situational homosexuality that can often be observed in prisons.

Yep. Turns out a lot of people are a lot more interested in non-specified "sex" than they are in "sex with most preferred gender" and certainly more than "avoiding sex with people of the non-preferred gender". While they'll sure take both if they can get them, if they can't, well... the first alone is better than nothing, after all. If you offer a starving man dinner, he'll probably be more than willing to eat foods he wouldn't consider in a time of plenty, and hey... he might find out he likes the taste after all...

It's certainly not surprising.