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[SalmonGod]

Me too.

Also, Truean, not sur I dig your protectonist feel here. While we can blame corps all we like, outsourcing has actually been a great boon, reducing inequality worldwide. Sure, it sucks to be on the receiving end of the global economic recalibration, but IMHO the loss of jobs in the West were more than worth it given all the Indians, Chinese etc etc etc we got out of poverty.

Somewhat...  Some have been elevated from poverty.  Others have simply found themselves spending their entire waking lives in an assembly line and still barely surviving.  The corporate perspective is this "Why pay these people who actually have some standard of life quality, while these people over here will work themselves to death within 20 years in return for a meal a day?"

I don't think anybody was talking about outsourcing to begin with, though.  It was about the way companies treat their employees.  Workplace safety, and such.  Cutting corners that they know will get people killed just to save a few dollars here and there.

[Sheb]

"Some" is quite the understatement. We're talking about hundreds of millions here. And slaving away in an assembly line might not be fun, but it's better than starving on the farm. Plus, now that most of the reserve workers pool has been used up (in no small part because China's new middle class need a lot of these workers to satisfy its need), wages are rising. Fast. We're talking about wages doubling every 4 years here.

Actually, wages are raising so fast that Chinese companies are now outsourcing, either taking factories back to the West, or opening factories in Africa, which will hopefully help those guys get out of poverty too.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I've heard it said more than once that once we run out of people to unintentionally enrich through corporate oppression, we'll ironically have reached World Communism (as Marx saw it, that is).

[Neonivek]

I've heard it said more than once that once we run out of people to unintentionally enrich through corporate oppression, we'll ironically have reached World Communism (as Marx saw it, that is).

Talk about a Corperate Pizza: APRIL FOOLS! There is no such thing!

[MetalSlimeHunt]

We get it Neonivek, you hate April Fools. Message well received. Posting it in every thread is not necessary.

[Neonivek]

We get it Neonivek, you hate April Fools. Message well received. Posting it in every thread is not necessary.

What? No, I was genuinly trying to be funny

So I guess the real fool was you... an April fool that is!

[penguinofhonor]

Shenanigans are over, I guess.

[Sirus]

Shame, too. I was really wondering what elephant meat tastes like.

[Truean]

"Some" is quite the understatement. We're talking about hundreds of millions here. And slaving away in an assembly line might not be fun, but it's better than starving on the farm. Plus, now that most of the reserve workers pool has been used up (in no small part because China's new middle class need a lot of these workers to satisfy its need), wages are rising. Fast. We're talking about wages doubling every 4 years here.

Actually, wages are raising so fast that Chinese companies are now outsourcing, either taking factories back to the West, or opening factories in Africa, which will hopefully help those guys get out of poverty too.

I am very protectionist. Moreso than you can imagine.

You're assuming it isn't cyclical, but rather a progressive good thing with wages rising....

What if, instead of eventually "running out of people to lowball on wages" the corporations simply rotate who they employ and who they don't (who they starve)? Let's see... we'll move all our factories to China for 20 years, then to Pakistan, then to Africa, then Korea, finally we'll ship some to the US now that we've killed their wage bargaining power..... Do you see how they can boycott round labor?

Your assumption of a constantly rising standard for the future being spread around the world is the opposite of what corporations want. They LIKE cheap as hell labor and they will screw you to get it.

I know all about international economics and Ricardian and Smithian views. That's fine but the problem is that trade needs to be reciprocal. Trade with China could've gone VERY differently where both sides would've gained something, instead of just them gaining a ton of our IOUs / us becoming heavily indebted to them.... The problem with trade to the developing world, is that it is always asymmetrical in practice. It needs to be heavily regulated so as not to exploit the crap out of both sides. So far trade with China has been a lose lose endeavor for the peoples of both countries (not the politicians or companies). The Chinese are now overworked, underpaid and unsafe with 0 worker safety. The Americans are now unemployed and broke. Though China overall came out on top (new society and social infrastrcuture buildings, compared to the decaying ruins of Detroit and the entire "rust belt"...).

[RedKing]

I'm guessing Truean isn't exactly a fan of Thomas Friedman. 

[Truean]

I'm guessing Truean isn't exactly a fan of Thomas Friedman. 

Nope. I especially don't like when he talks.

[Descan]

This is my pet idea.

Well, not really MY pet idea, obviously. But it's the one that I'm most "We need this" about.

Just wondering what y'all think about it. Either in Europe, North America, or elsewhere, the feasibility of it. (Personally I would do away with most if not all welfare and just use this. People are smart enough to spend their money wisely, in terms of "rent, food, energy first", you don't need the government telling you how to use it. And if they aren't smart enough, well... There's no helping them.)

[GlyphGryph]

The basic income is definitely something I would like to see. (Not to be confused with the 'minimum guaranteed income' which I find pretty terrible, but most people seem to conflate and treat as if they are in any way similar)

[Descan]

A minimum guaranteed income sounds like it would pretty much null any savings from lessened bureacracy from changing state-welfare to basic-income. :/ And the whole transition stage between "eligible" and "non-eligible", with people getting lost in the gap.

[Nadaka]

I will be easier to get people to accept universal welfare in this country than basic income. And even that won't happen unless there is a massive political and social shakeup first.