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Author Topic: TINKER: Miya's Hubris  (Read 216076 times)

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #420 on: May 19, 2014, 04:03:05 pm »

But seriously.  I already have a program that entirely devalues stats for melee combat.  Apparently it's easy to make a con devaluer.  Saint effectively has a +2 to more stats than most people, and will only need a single decomp.  That's more OP than I ever thought I'd be allowed to do.
That still leaves a gaping weakspot the size of a, well, the whole suit. All somebody needs to do is scramble your suit's programming.

That's not to mention that you're only increasing the numbers on your stats. Your suit is still only as strong as what it's made of, and a good enough opponent - which having such abilities invites the GM to toss at you - will be able to easily kill you in a few good hits. As soon as your suit is damaged, all your advantage evaporates.
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Re: TINKER
« Reply #421 on: May 19, 2014, 04:15:35 pm »

You guys are all chumps  :P  Back when I made Miyamoto and gave him his aux bonus, I had planned for it to be his main 'support skill' and then use tokens to turn con rolls into aux ones, as a backup for when I ran out of mindpoints for manips. Haven't gotten around to that due to the way things went (needed tokens for other stuff).

I think the main thing is that pw would allow it, but charge tokens for it. So it's more or less balanced, in a way, since tokens are the limiting factor.

Also note that pw hasn't said yes to kri's plan yet.
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Kriellya

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #422 on: May 19, 2014, 05:08:18 pm »

You guys are all chumps  :P  Back when I made Miyamoto and gave him his aux bonus, I had planned for it to be his main 'support skill' and then use tokens to turn con rolls into aux ones, as a backup for when I ran out of mindpoints for manips. Haven't gotten around to that due to the way things went (needed tokens for other stuff).

I think the main thing is that pw would allow it, but charge tokens for it. So it's more or less balanced, in a way, since tokens are the limiting factor.

Also note that pw hasn't said yes to kri's plan yet.

No, but he didn't give an outright no, and it's *going* to take an Aux roll to build it :P
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syvarris

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #423 on: May 19, 2014, 07:50:53 pm »

But seriously.  I already have a program that entirely devalues stats for melee combat.  Apparently it's easy to make a con devaluer.  Saint effectively has a +2 to more stats than most people, and will only need a single decomp.  That's more OP than I ever thought I'd be allowed to do.
That still leaves a gaping weakspot the size of a, well, the whole suit. All somebody needs to do is scramble your suit's programming.

That's not to mention that you're only increasing the numbers on your stats. Your suit is still only as strong as what it's made of, and a good enough opponent - which having such abilities invites the GM to toss at you - will be able to easily kill you in a few good hits. As soon as your suit is damaged, all your advantage evaporates.

...What are you talking about?  I'm talking about programming my physical body.  Because it's robotic.  Anyone in a robobody is at least as vulnerable to being hacked, because I have a high AUX bonus and can set up some level of defense.  Beyond that, I plan on gaining points in Exo too, and fighting through my allies.  Being able to use my own body as a weapon with AUX is only icing, you realize.

And yes, being strong and effective is an invitation for the GM to try and kill you.  Even if you get strong legitimately.  I'm not saying I'm invincible (In fact, it's still an inferior strategy to space wizards), I'm saying it devalues stats gained by mundane people like Lars and Milno.

Toaster

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #424 on: May 19, 2014, 09:18:06 pm »

I'm saying it devalues stats gained by mundane people like Lars and Milno.


Lars fights by will of the gods!  He's more like a Paladin, really... though he's about to take a level in Psionicist.
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Parisbre56

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #425 on: May 19, 2014, 09:40:10 pm »

Translocator/Blink module
I hope you like big posts...

Can I get a picture? It sounds interesting although I can basically already tell you it is gonna be very very costly.
Eh, token cost doesn't matter, I'm just doing this fore fun. Although there are some serious modifications I want to consider... And this does mean I'm wasting my time...
hmmm...
Oh well, fun comes first! Plus, if this works, it could get used in a covert op or maybe in a spaceship.

So, the simple part first:
The system comes with a suit, either a modified exoskeleton/MK3 or a custom built suit if necessary. It probably won't be necessary.
It will be good if the suit has flight capabilities since the when activated the system might damage the user's surroundings if automanipulators can't be set to only affect the user.
Let's assume this is the suit:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then the system would be attached much like an armoured backpack (the green thing in the back, yes I said know I draw terribly). All the automanipulators along with their energy source and electronics will be in it, preferably close to the center of a sphere surrounding the user.
It should have a small port so that its insides can be checked, repaired and replaced as necessary without the entire system having to be disassembled.

The system can be manually programmed with the relative coordinates. It can also be controlled via a HUD, using a rangefinder to compute the distance. Finally, it can use a combination of the two systems (for example, looking where you want to move towards, setting the distance and engaging the system). It can also be allowed to be controlled remotely, but that function should be very well protected, perhaps with a physical switch on top of normal computer security, so that it cannot be easily used by the enemy or accidentally activated by AUX overshoots of teammates.

It doesn't need much armour, just enough to slow any debris down enough so that if an automanipulator is hit, the automanipulator's sensors can detect the breach and it can self destruct before it can overload, so that dying with the thing on does not mean everyone around you has to run. It would be good if the self destruct feature can be disabled in covert ops if possible, so that if the operative dies, the system can be overloaded, ensuring that the operative is not captured.

The position of the electromagnetic manipulator should be somewhere in the backpack. The where is not really important since it should remain immobile.
The vector automanipulators will be positioned like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A sphere within which the automanipulators can freely move.

The automanipulators each point in opposite directions.
One manipulator accelerates, the other decelerates in the other direction. The electromagnetic manipulator protects the user during the transfer. Simple as that.
The delay between activation of the first automanipulator and the activation of the second controls how far the user jumps.

They can also be used to accelerate the user by being positioned at an angle and firing simultaneously, like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The orange arrow is the vector of the acceleration. The smaller the angle between the two automanipulators the greater the acceleration.
The primary use for this would be the ability for the user to gain a quick burst of speed if he needs more speed than a MK3 can provide. It would also be useful if the suit is used in space, since it will allow the user to do things such as match their velocity with that of a spaceship while remaining undetected and then infiltrate it by jumping through its hull.

The two modes (acceleration and teleportation) could be combined by inducing a tiny delay between the activation of the first and second automanipulators.
That way, you could do things like teleport in front of the enemy with enough speed to deliver a fatal kinetic-amp powered punch before he has a chance to react.

Of course, this requires the system to be precise enough to correctly position the automanipulators and keep them there, since if it is not, then the user might find himself veering off course and/or getting slammed into a wall at a significant fraction of c. Which is cool if you're trying to kamikaze, but not so cool for normal operation.
If there is no system stable enough to do that, then we can scrap the above for a rigid and precisely calibrated beam where the automanipulators are mounted on.
This means that the system can no longer be used to accelerate the user (except if you activate only one automanipulator, but that would probably cause you to go insanely fast) but is much safer to use.

The system also runs various self diagnostics between jumps to ensure that the user can be warned if wear caused by jumping is starting to make the system unsafe to operate (see overload and/or slamming into a wall) or possibly damaging to the user (most probable is loss of many atoms due to going through dense materials and radiation damage due to the energy released by the few atoms that are lost during normal operation).
It should be easy to do, just a few sensors on important equipment.
If that is expensive, then cheapest we can get is a cube of densely packed conductive almost-monoatomic wires. As conductivity in each wire drops, the on board electronics can measure how many atoms have been lost and from which position and run a simulation or use statistics gathered by VR-run simulations to estimate the damage caused to the suit and user and give the user an estimate of how safe it is to continue using the suit.

Now, on to the more physics oriented stuff:
My knowledge of physics is amateur at best, just what I learned by reading and in university, so I'm not 100% certain about those stuff, so I'll keep it simple.
Also, I have no idea of how quantum physics work (then again, who does?) so I'm not certain about how electrons would behave in that situation. I'm just guessing by using Newtonian physics.

First of all the problem of the air at the arriving location:
In the best case scenario, the automanipulators would simply move the body of the user. However, if that is not possible, then they will affect an area around the user, like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now, when you begin the transportation, you begin moving at a certain speed. Let's call that speed V.
So when you reach your destination, you're going to be moving at that speed V, while the air will be motionless (relative to the speed you're moving with).
Let's call the air's speed Δ, where Δ=0. So at the moment you arrive to your destination, you have something like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Where the blue thing is you and the purple the air.
And then the second automanipulator activates to slow you down. But since it affects everything in the surrounding area, then the air will be accelerated in the opposite direction.
So you end up with Δ'=-V and V'=0.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That will make the air leave the location you're standing in, ensuring no nasty air bubbles in the brain will kill you.
Obviously this won't save you if you end up inside a wall, since the material that is accelerated still has to go somewhere. It would end up impacting the rest of the wall, overheating it and probably killing you in the process.

Then we have the impact problem:
So, your main problem when moving at high speeds is impacts, be they with the atoms in the air (friction, drag) or with the atoms in a wall (collision). Interactions between atoms happen almost exclusively via electromagnetism, since gravity and the weak and strong atomic forces are not strong enough to be of any influence at the scale we're working with.

So in the best case scenario, you would find a way to disable all outside electromagnetic forces to your body for the split second the transfer takes to happen. I know this is probably very expensive, but that should be offset by the fact that they only have to be disabled for a very short time, just enough for the transportation to happen. The electromagnetic forces between the atoms in the user's body continue happening normally, keeping the body of the user together.

If that can't be done then there's a slight problem, since you'd also have to disable electromagnetism in the user's body. And with Newtonain physics, that means that the electrons orbiting the protons in the atoms of your body will become free within moments of electromagnetism being disabled, turning your body into a cloud of cold plasma. That means that you can't travel any great distances without risking your body falling apart. Even if you survive the transfer without becoming plasma, bonds between atoms can still break and many electrons will radiate photons as their orbits decay to their ground states.
I'm unsure about how time dialation would work in that scenario. My instinct tells me it would help since things will appear to be happening slower for the user, so that means that the electrons would move slower, giving the user greater range. But I'm too sleepy to think clearly right now and I need to wrap this up.

Spoiler: Numbers (click to show/hide)

Misc:
Obviously with the same resources you could get a very powerful weapon that could probably destroy walls, but that is not the purpose of the blink module. Its purpose is to provide a mobility advantage that will probably surprise your enemies, a way to bypass obstacles and allow the infiltration of otherwise inaccessible or hard to reach areas.

Note that this can probably still be affected by other people's amps and manipulators if their effect is strong enough.

Kriellya

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #426 on: May 20, 2014, 12:33:00 am »

(( Disclaimer: I understand this is for entertainment, but I want to try and make this work somehow :P so I have a question.

Could we get away with a pyro manip as the shield? It seems to be that our main problem is heat and collision, something that a pyro manip could handle. It would essentially just need to cool the leading edge of the sphere as it rocketed along, preventing it from heating up too much. Potentially there may also be a concern with acceleration, but since we're using auto-manips and most of the damage caused by acceleration is caused by different parts accelerating at different rates, we shouldn't have an issue. (for example, you black out at high G's not just because of the acceleration, but because your brain is accelerating faster than your blood.) If the auto-manips are accelerating everything in some sphere to their target velocity and back at the same rate, then theoretically there should be no acceleration damage, because the amp will make *everything* in your body start moving, and then make *everything* stop again.

The only potentially ruining thing I see is actually time dilation, but this might just be a timing issue to work out, where every auto-manip in sequence actually has to start working long *before* it is needed. Otherwise, at significant fractions of c, the auto-manip to decelerate might take too long to fire, giving a minimum distance to the blink that could be significantly too long to be practical ))
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piecewise

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #427 on: May 20, 2014, 09:55:32 am »

Quote
Exactly how does the namite thrower work now? How does it throw it's payload? Is it the same as a flamethrower which has pressurized tanks of the substance? Since I don't think that will work for the foam...At least I don't think so...Hmm.

Yes, as far as I'm aware it works like a flamethrower. Why would that not work for the foam? Remember, until it start crosslinking it's just a fluid, and it only really gets going once it's a few meters or so outside the nozzle.

Also, make sure the thrower is calibrated to empty it's tubing with each shot, to prevent foam clogging it.

In order to make sure it empties the tubing it's gonna need a secondary source of pressure; an tank of propellent. Thats about it, really.

New gauss ammo type.
2 part. In front, there will be a saboted steel flechette designed to pierce through light armour.
Behind that, there will be a Steel canister of maldavian mind rot. The canister will be designed to break open upon impact, getting several drops of mind rot in the wound.
This should be cheap, because mind rot is free at the armoury. It sould be highly effective against organic targets, because a single shot anywhere in the body will instantly incapacitate them.

Actually Mind Rot is one of the few drugs that costs money. 1 token but hey, there you go.

And as per your idea, might work. Wouldn't be INSTANT because it takes a bit to be absorbed. You also have the problem that heat from firing might just boil the booze. Or spatter it. Hard to say.

So basically functionally like unholy's hardpoint except using the MKIII exoskeleton?

Yes, essentially. Just wanted to give you room to use a different bonus if you so desired.

(( Personally, I think the hard-point being straight CON to AUX is a bit... I don't know, feels a little unbalanced? Maybe it's just particularly unbalanced for us Fleshtechs, who would otherwise have an extra -1 in CON, meaning CON to AUX is essentially a gain of over 18 points in CON. I guess you feel the inflexibility of having to swap out the weapon manually and it being a worthless brick if the hardpoint is disabled is sufficient downside? ))
That and the fact that, the instant you get injured, I will fucking break that thing sooooooo hard. Essentially I'll just force other rolls one way or another. Also gonna have to say no to it being able to switch bonuses to different things using different stats. One stat to another stat is fine, since I can still just force a roll with other stats to by pass it.

For example, Sy is going to try to do everything with aux, so I'll just force various weapon skill rolls for setting things up. Oh, you want to use your gun program to automate shooting? Ok. do a con roll for calibration. Oh, you rolled a 3? Guess whose shooting a few feet over his targets every time.

Wouldn't it also mean you can't swap it mid-mission?

(( You could, but I imagine it would require a handi roll and probably some help, since you probably can't access it with both hands. Conceivably, if it is a more flexibly designed system, there's actually an eject button that would let you take a turn to disconnect and reconnect without a roll, but you can still only have one weapon on the hardpoint, and switching in battle is likely dangerous. That's just the only downside I see, which seems minor when you consider how much benefit Fleshtechs get from it :P ))
I'd imagine you'd get a penalty to Aux and Handi with that thing attached. Forget weight, how are you going to manipulate a keyboard with a three-foot metal brick strapped to your forearm?

If you're a robot you can send texts with your mind at the speed of thought.  And as Kri is pointing out, you don't need a three-foot brick attached to your arm- just an exoskeleton or robobody.

Frankly, Saint was created with the plan of using AUX to devalue all other stats.  I'm am flatly amazed at the fact PW is basically saying "yeah sure" to stuff like Kri's action.  I've been figuring he'd go "Well, makes some sense, but it's completely unbalanced so no.", so I've pretty much been trying to tip-toe into it sideways.

But seriously.  I already have a program that entirely devalues stats for melee combat.  Apparently it's easy to make a con devaluer.  Saint effectively has a +2 to more stats than most people, and will only need a single decomp.  That's more OP than I ever thought I'd be allowed to do.

Heh. You ever play jenga? Because right now, Right now you're pulling out all the blocks on the bottom.

But seriously.  I already have a program that entirely devalues stats for melee combat.  Apparently it's easy to make a con devaluer.  Saint effectively has a +2 to more stats than most people, and will only need a single decomp.  That's more OP than I ever thought I'd be allowed to do.
That still leaves a gaping weakspot the size of a, well, the whole suit. All somebody needs to do is scramble your suit's programming.

That's not to mention that you're only increasing the numbers on your stats. Your suit is still only as strong as what it's made of, and a good enough opponent - which having such abilities invites the GM to toss at you - will be able to easily kill you in a few good hits. As soon as your suit is damaged, all your advantage evaporates.

...What are you talking about?  I'm talking about programming my physical body.  Because it's robotic.  Anyone in a robobody is at least as vulnerable to being hacked, because I have a high AUX bonus and can set up some level of defense.  Beyond that, I plan on gaining points in Exo too, and fighting through my allies.  Being able to use my own body as a weapon with AUX is only icing, you realize.

And yes, being strong and effective is an invitation for the GM to try and kill you.  Even if you get strong legitimately.  I'm not saying I'm invincible (In fact, it's still an inferior strategy to space wizards), I'm saying it devalues stats gained by mundane people like Lars and Milno.
The difference is that Lars and milno will still be able to fight when I inevitably strip them of their toys.

Let me be straight honest with you; when you make a game breaking glass cannon, I specifically and specially manufacture a hammer to deal with you. If you survive, then I suppose you're just good enough.

Thats how I do balancing. Wack-a-mole. Sometimes on a galactic, physics based level.


Translocator/Blink module
I hope you like big posts...

Can I get a picture? It sounds interesting although I can basically already tell you it is gonna be very very costly.
Eh, token cost doesn't matter, I'm just doing this fore fun. Although there are some serious modifications I want to consider... And this does mean I'm wasting my time...
hmmm...
Oh well, fun comes first! Plus, if this works, it could get used in a covert op or maybe in a spaceship.

So, the simple part first:
The system comes with a suit, either a modified exoskeleton/MK3 or a custom built suit if necessary. It probably won't be necessary.
It will be good if the suit has flight capabilities since the when activated the system might damage the user's surroundings if automanipulators can't be set to only affect the user.
Let's assume this is the suit:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then the system would be attached much like an armoured backpack (the green thing in the back, yes I said know I draw terribly). All the automanipulators along with their energy source and electronics will be in it, preferably close to the center of a sphere surrounding the user.
It should have a small port so that its insides can be checked, repaired and replaced as necessary without the entire system having to be disassembled.

The system can be manually programmed with the relative coordinates. It can also be controlled via a HUD, using a rangefinder to compute the distance. Finally, it can use a combination of the two systems (for example, looking where you want to move towards, setting the distance and engaging the system). It can also be allowed to be controlled remotely, but that function should be very well protected, perhaps with a physical switch on top of normal computer security, so that it cannot be easily used by the enemy or accidentally activated by AUX overshoots of teammates.

It doesn't need much armour, just enough to slow any debris down enough so that if an automanipulator is hit, the automanipulator's sensors can detect the breach and it can self destruct before it can overload, so that dying with the thing on does not mean everyone around you has to run. It would be good if the self destruct feature can be disabled in covert ops if possible, so that if the operative dies, the system can be overloaded, ensuring that the operative is not captured.

The position of the electromagnetic manipulator should be somewhere in the backpack. The where is not really important since it should remain immobile.
The vector automanipulators will be positioned like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A sphere within which the automanipulators can freely move.

The automanipulators each point in opposite directions.
One manipulator accelerates, the other decelerates in the other direction. The electromagnetic manipulator protects the user during the transfer. Simple as that.
The delay between activation of the first automanipulator and the activation of the second controls how far the user jumps.

They can also be used to accelerate the user by being positioned at an angle and firing simultaneously, like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The orange arrow is the vector of the acceleration. The smaller the angle between the two automanipulators the greater the acceleration.
The primary use for this would be the ability for the user to gain a quick burst of speed if he needs more speed than a MK3 can provide. It would also be useful if the suit is used in space, since it will allow the user to do things such as match their velocity with that of a spaceship while remaining undetected and then infiltrate it by jumping through its hull.

The two modes (acceleration and teleportation) could be combined by inducing a tiny delay between the activation of the first and second automanipulators.
That way, you could do things like teleport in front of the enemy with enough speed to deliver a fatal kinetic-amp powered punch before he has a chance to react.

Of course, this requires the system to be precise enough to correctly position the automanipulators and keep them there, since if it is not, then the user might find himself veering off course and/or getting slammed into a wall at a significant fraction of c. Which is cool if you're trying to kamikaze, but not so cool for normal operation.
If there is no system stable enough to do that, then we can scrap the above for a rigid and precisely calibrated beam where the automanipulators are mounted on.
This means that the system can no longer be used to accelerate the user (except if you activate only one automanipulator, but that would probably cause you to go insanely fast) but is much safer to use.

The system also runs various self diagnostics between jumps to ensure that the user can be warned if wear caused by jumping is starting to make the system unsafe to operate (see overload and/or slamming into a wall) or possibly damaging to the user (most probable is loss of many atoms due to going through dense materials and radiation damage due to the energy released by the few atoms that are lost during normal operation).
It should be easy to do, just a few sensors on important equipment.
If that is expensive, then cheapest we can get is a cube of densely packed conductive almost-monoatomic wires. As conductivity in each wire drops, the on board electronics can measure how many atoms have been lost and from which position and run a simulation or use statistics gathered by VR-run simulations to estimate the damage caused to the suit and user and give the user an estimate of how safe it is to continue using the suit.

Now, on to the more physics oriented stuff:
My knowledge of physics is amateur at best, just what I learned by reading and in university, so I'm not 100% certain about those stuff, so I'll keep it simple.
Also, I have no idea of how quantum physics work (then again, who does?) so I'm not certain about how electrons would behave in that situation. I'm just guessing by using Newtonian physics.

First of all the problem of the air at the arriving location:
In the best case scenario, the automanipulators would simply move the body of the user. However, if that is not possible, then they will affect an area around the user, like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now, when you begin the transportation, you begin moving at a certain speed. Let's call that speed V.
So when you reach your destination, you're going to be moving at that speed V, while the air will be motionless (relative to the speed you're moving with).
Let's call the air's speed Δ, where Δ=0. So at the moment you arrive to your destination, you have something like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Where the blue thing is you and the purple the air.
And then the second automanipulator activates to slow you down. But since it affects everything in the surrounding area, then the air will be accelerated in the opposite direction.
So you end up with Δ'=-V and V'=0.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That will make the air leave the location you're standing in, ensuring no nasty air bubbles in the brain will kill you.
Obviously this won't save you if you end up inside a wall, since the material that is accelerated still has to go somewhere. It would end up impacting the rest of the wall, overheating it and probably killing you in the process.

Then we have the impact problem:
So, your main problem when moving at high speeds is impacts, be they with the atoms in the air (friction, drag) or with the atoms in a wall (collision). Interactions between atoms happen almost exclusively via electromagnetism, since gravity and the weak and strong atomic forces are not strong enough to be of any influence at the scale we're working with.

So in the best case scenario, you would find a way to disable all outside electromagnetic forces to your body for the split second the transfer takes to happen. I know this is probably very expensive, but that should be offset by the fact that they only have to be disabled for a very short time, just enough for the transportation to happen. The electromagnetic forces between the atoms in the user's body continue happening normally, keeping the body of the user together.

If that can't be done then there's a slight problem, since you'd also have to disable electromagnetism in the user's body. And with Newtonain physics, that means that the electrons orbiting the protons in the atoms of your body will become free within moments of electromagnetism being disabled, turning your body into a cloud of cold plasma. That means that you can't travel any great distances without risking your body falling apart. Even if you survive the transfer without becoming plasma, bonds between atoms can still break and many electrons will radiate photons as their orbits decay to their ground states.
I'm unsure about how time dialation would work in that scenario. My instinct tells me it would help since things will appear to be happening slower for the user, so that means that the electrons would move slower, giving the user greater range. But I'm too sleepy to think clearly right now and I need to wrap this up.

Spoiler: Numbers (click to show/hide)

Misc:
Obviously with the same resources you could get a very powerful weapon that could probably destroy walls, but that is not the purpose of the blink module. Its purpose is to provide a mobility advantage that will probably surprise your enemies, a way to bypass obstacles and allow the infiltration of otherwise inaccessible or hard to reach areas.

Note that this can probably still be affected by other people's amps and manipulators if their effect is strong enough.


Translocator/Blink module
I hope you like big posts...

Can I get a picture? It sounds interesting although I can basically already tell you it is gonna be very very costly.
Eh, token cost doesn't matter, I'm just doing this fore fun. Although there are some serious modifications I want to consider... And this does mean I'm wasting my time...
hmmm...
Oh well, fun comes first! Plus, if this works, it could get used in a covert op or maybe in a spaceship.

So, the simple part first:
The system comes with a suit, either a modified exoskeleton/MK3 or a custom built suit if necessary. It probably won't be necessary.
It will be good if the suit has flight capabilities since the when activated the system might damage the user's surroundings if automanipulators can't be set to only affect the user.
Let's assume this is the suit:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then the system would be attached much like an armoured backpack (the green thing in the back, yes I said know I draw terribly). All the automanipulators along with their energy source and electronics will be in it, preferably close to the center of a sphere surrounding the user.
It should have a small port so that its insides can be checked, repaired and replaced as necessary without the entire system having to be disassembled.

The system can be manually programmed with the relative coordinates. It can also be controlled via a HUD, using a rangefinder to compute the distance. Finally, it can use a combination of the two systems (for example, looking where you want to move towards, setting the distance and engaging the system). It can also be allowed to be controlled remotely, but that function should be very well protected, perhaps with a physical switch on top of normal computer security, so that it cannot be easily used by the enemy or accidentally activated by AUX overshoots of teammates.

It doesn't need much armour, just enough to slow any debris down enough so that if an automanipulator is hit, the automanipulator's sensors can detect the breach and it can self destruct before it can overload, so that dying with the thing on does not mean everyone around you has to run. It would be good if the self destruct feature can be disabled in covert ops if possible, so that if the operative dies, the system can be overloaded, ensuring that the operative is not captured.

The position of the electromagnetic manipulator should be somewhere in the backpack. The where is not really important since it should remain immobile.
The vector automanipulators will be positioned like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A sphere within which the automanipulators can freely move.

The automanipulators each point in opposite directions.
One manipulator accelerates, the other decelerates in the other direction. The electromagnetic manipulator protects the user during the transfer. Simple as that.
The delay between activation of the first automanipulator and the activation of the second controls how far the user jumps.

They can also be used to accelerate the user by being positioned at an angle and firing simultaneously, like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The orange arrow is the vector of the acceleration. The smaller the angle between the two automanipulators the greater the acceleration.
The primary use for this would be the ability for the user to gain a quick burst of speed if he needs more speed than a MK3 can provide. It would also be useful if the suit is used in space, since it will allow the user to do things such as match their velocity with that of a spaceship while remaining undetected and then infiltrate it by jumping through its hull.

The two modes (acceleration and teleportation) could be combined by inducing a tiny delay between the activation of the first and second automanipulators.
That way, you could do things like teleport in front of the enemy with enough speed to deliver a fatal kinetic-amp powered punch before he has a chance to react.

Of course, this requires the system to be precise enough to correctly position the automanipulators and keep them there, since if it is not, then the user might find himself veering off course and/or getting slammed into a wall at a significant fraction of c. Which is cool if you're trying to kamikaze, but not so cool for normal operation.
If there is no system stable enough to do that, then we can scrap the above for a rigid and precisely calibrated beam where the automanipulators are mounted on.
This means that the system can no longer be used to accelerate the user (except if you activate only one automanipulator, but that would probably cause you to go insanely fast) but is much safer to use.

The system also runs various self diagnostics between jumps to ensure that the user can be warned if wear caused by jumping is starting to make the system unsafe to operate (see overload and/or slamming into a wall) or possibly damaging to the user (most probable is loss of many atoms due to going through dense materials and radiation damage due to the energy released by the few atoms that are lost during normal operation).
It should be easy to do, just a few sensors on important equipment.
If that is expensive, then cheapest we can get is a cube of densely packed conductive almost-monoatomic wires. As conductivity in each wire drops, the on board electronics can measure how many atoms have been lost and from which position and run a simulation or use statistics gathered by VR-run simulations to estimate the damage caused to the suit and user and give the user an estimate of how safe it is to continue using the suit.

Now, on to the more physics oriented stuff:
My knowledge of physics is amateur at best, just what I learned by reading and in university, so I'm not 100% certain about those stuff, so I'll keep it simple.
Also, I have no idea of how quantum physics work (then again, who does?) so I'm not certain about how electrons would behave in that situation. I'm just guessing by using Newtonian physics.

First of all the problem of the air at the arriving location:
In the best case scenario, the automanipulators would simply move the body of the user. However, if that is not possible, then they will affect an area around the user, like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now, when you begin the transportation, you begin moving at a certain speed. Let's call that speed V.
So when you reach your destination, you're going to be moving at that speed V, while the air will be motionless (relative to the speed you're moving with).
Let's call the air's speed Δ, where Δ=0. So at the moment you arrive to your destination, you have something like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Where the blue thing is you and the purple the air.
And then the second automanipulator activates to slow you down. But since it affects everything in the surrounding area, then the air will be accelerated in the opposite direction.
So you end up with Δ'=-V and V'=0.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That will make the air leave the location you're standing in, ensuring no nasty air bubbles in the brain will kill you.
Obviously this won't save you if you end up inside a wall, since the material that is accelerated still has to go somewhere. It would end up impacting the rest of the wall, overheating it and probably killing you in the process.

Then we have the impact problem:
So, your main problem when moving at high speeds is impacts, be they with the atoms in the air (friction, drag) or with the atoms in a wall (collision). Interactions between atoms happen almost exclusively via electromagnetism, since gravity and the weak and strong atomic forces are not strong enough to be of any influence at the scale we're working with.

So in the best case scenario, you would find a way to disable all outside electromagnetic forces to your body for the split second the transfer takes to happen. I know this is probably very expensive, but that should be offset by the fact that they only have to be disabled for a very short time, just enough for the transportation to happen. The electromagnetic forces between the atoms in the user's body continue happening normally, keeping the body of the user together.

If that can't be done then there's a slight problem, since you'd also have to disable electromagnetism in the user's body. And with Newtonain physics, that means that the electrons orbiting the protons in the atoms of your body will become free within moments of electromagnetism being disabled, turning your body into a cloud of cold plasma. That means that you can't travel any great distances without risking your body falling apart. Even if you survive the transfer without becoming plasma, bonds between atoms can still break and many electrons will radiate photons as their orbits decay to their ground states.
I'm unsure about how time dialation would work in that scenario. My instinct tells me it would help since things will appear to be happening slower for the user, so that means that the electrons would move slower, giving the user greater range. But I'm too sleepy to think clearly right now and I need to wrap this up.

Spoiler: Numbers (click to show/hide)

Misc:
Obviously with the same resources you could get a very powerful weapon that could probably destroy walls, but that is not the purpose of the blink module. Its purpose is to provide a mobility advantage that will probably surprise your enemies, a way to bypass obstacles and allow the infiltration of otherwise inaccessible or hard to reach areas.

Note that this can probably still be affected by other people's amps and manipulators if their effect is strong enough.

Few minor problems I see:

First, this thing would be expensive as fuck.

Second, with automanips of that size, you' get one shot, at best, and even that would probably overload them. 

Three, You talk about the electromagnetic amp for the purposes of self protection, but I fail to see how it will protect you from being pulverized into subatomic shrapnel when you jerk your body forward at significant values of c, or just c.

Fourth, ignoring all the others, even if they all worked, you're accelerating to c and then back to 0 in HOW MANY METERS?! I'm no physicist  but I'm pretty sure that much energy would kill you  and everyone around you for several miles with just the shockwave.

Parisbre56

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Re: TINKER: Saint's Death Warrant
« Reply #428 on: May 20, 2014, 10:26:51 am »

Quote
First, this thing would be expensive as fuck.

Second, with automanips of that size, you' get one shot, at best, and even that would probably overload them.

Three, You talk about the electromagnetic amp for the purposes of self protection, but I fail to see how it will protect you from being pulverized into subatomic shrapnel when you jerk your body forward at significant values of c, or just c.

Fourth, ignoring all the others, even if they all worked, you're accelerating to c and then back to 0 in HOW MANY METERS?! I'm no physicist  but I'm pretty sure that much energy would kill you  and everyone around you for several miles with just the shockwave.
3. I'm assuming the amps can accelerate your entire body equally. Since the speed of your head remains the same relative to the speed of your torso, you won't loose your head, even if your speed relative to the ground changes.

4. Well, if the electromagnetic automanipulator works as I intend it to, the air between the starting point and end point will be left undisturbed. However, you're right, the air that is displaced at your endpoint would be going insanely fast, thus creating a big shockwave. So that will make it only be usable in space.

Anyway, the above mean that this will find only very limited use in space or giant robot combat, so I'm abandoning the project. If anyone feels like making teleporting giant robots or spaceships, feel free to use the above as you like.

I liked your jenga metaphor by the way. My thoughts exactly.

Edit: New project: ESDS (Electrified Surface Defense System) Battlesuit Power Plug

Check how the battlesuit's ESDS works. Would it be possible to modify it to allow it to charge the battlesuit's capacitors if the battlesuit is hit by an external electrical current, perhaps by fitting a few heavy duty transformers in it?

While I'm at it, see how the battlesuit normally charges and if it could accept power I took from a wall socket.

While I'm at it, see if I could chain the powersource of the battlesuit with that of my MK2's and my rechargeable mining laser with a few simple plugs and transformers.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 10:39:56 am by Parisbre56 »
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Radio Controlled

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Re: TINKER: Saint's Death Warrant
« Reply #429 on: May 20, 2014, 11:39:19 am »

Quote
In order to make sure it empties the tubing it's gonna need a secondary source of pressure; an tank of propellent. Thats about it, really.
Yeah, figured as much. Sure, add a small secondary tank with pressured gas.

Also, ok if we just put the dissolvant in a spray can? And is the dissolvant damaging to skin, and if yes, to what extent?
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Re: TINKER: Saint's Death Warrant
« Reply #430 on: May 20, 2014, 12:31:04 pm »

Paris:

Since you become a plasma (and, since you've disabled electromagnetics, there's much less keeping protons away from one another, a plasma that might have a bit of fusion going on in it), and plasma is essentially gas that has been stripped of electric charge, what used to be your body is now going to attempt to equalize pressure with the surrounding atmosphere (up to and including vacuum).

Do you know what we call something solid or liquid becoming a large amount of gas all of a sudden, or rather, the gasses' attempt to equalize pressure? An explosion.
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Pyro is probably some experimental government R&D AI.

Parisbre56

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Re: TINKER: Saint's Death Warrant
« Reply #431 on: May 20, 2014, 12:36:51 pm »

Paris:

Since you become a plasma (and, since you've disabled electromagnetics, there's much less keeping protons away from one another, a plasma that might have a bit of fusion going on in it), and plasma is essentially gas that has been stripped of electric charge, what used to be your body is now going to attempt to equalize pressure with the surrounding atmosphere (up to and including vacuum).

Do you know what we call something solid or liquid becoming a large amount of gas all of a sudden, or rather, the gasses' attempt to equalize pressure? An explosion.
Hence why I asked for the automanipulator to only disable the influence of outside electromagnetic forces if possible. The atoms making up the body would continue to affect each other, hence keeping the body from exploding.

If that was not possible, then there isn't much chance this will work unless you only want to teleport a few millimeters for some reason.

tryrar

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Re: TINKER: Saint's Death Warrant
« Reply #432 on: May 20, 2014, 12:42:38 pm »

Oooh, reviewing how pyro came up with that grenade launcher gave me an idea for something along the lines of a man-portable 80-120mm mortar for sending ordinance downrange. Obviously this wouldn't be useful for anything involving missions in enclosed spaces, but if we get an open battlefield or something, think of the fire support this could give!

((though, this idea might have to wait for the next mission))
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No. I suppose there are similarities, but I'm fairly certain angry birds doesn't let me charge into a battalion of knights with a car made of circular saws.

syvarris

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Re: TINKER: Saint's Death Warrant
« Reply #433 on: May 20, 2014, 01:20:15 pm »

Hey, I got into the thread title!  Awesome!

Thoughts:
One: I'm planning on using sods for the actual movements. :\  One of my first requests to Simus was going to be an obstacle course and shooting range, with a few robosods.
Two: I plan on localizing the movements to different limbs.  Or trying to anyways.  I want to minimize the impact of, say, missing a leg.
Three:I'm duel-speccing in exo, the other game breaking skill.

Four:One of my ideas for tinker is a sod brain backpack.


I'm absolutely amazed that PW just said my initial roll for calibrating the program would decide all rolls using it.  That means I'll have sod-level accuracy as long as my suit's undamaged!

((Honestly, I'm really surprised you suggested that as a penalty.  Since I'm on Heph, I'd have plenty of tries to correct the calibration back to five.))

...I'm guessing whatever is inside that Nyars box I bought has spontaneously changed into something very deadly.

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Re: TINKER: Saint's Death Warrant
« Reply #434 on: May 20, 2014, 01:56:16 pm »

You begin configuring the hardpoint on your suit.

[Con:1-2]  It beeps several times, then turns around and shoots you in the face.  You are dead.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.
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