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Current one, unchanged.

+4 AS and +5 DMG when moving 4 spaces or more.

+2 AS and +3 DMG on Player Phase, with additional +2 AS and +2 DMG when moving 4 spaces or more.

+1 AS and +1.5 DMG for each space moved up to 4 spaces.

Current one but AS bonus is converted to DR from the end of the Player Phase until the next one.

I don't know but I want to see the results.

[Blade Master Model 42]

They've already got the dragon category and wyrmslayer yeah.

Wyrmslayer, Dragon Axe, Dragon Lance, whole bunches of other stuff.

I counted them up one time, they had 73 weapons effective against them I think.

[Xanmyral]

Page 107, under effective damage in 1.20. I'd quote it but phone. Think that's rather decisive, no?

[Blade Master Model 42]

Page 107, under effective damage in 1.20. I'd quote it but phone. Think that's rather decisive, no?

Hm... It does say that, doesn't it.

But why is thunder magic effective against monsters? I can see the wyverns, sure (Big lizards flying around with nothing to ground them with dudes with heavy armor on their back, not to mention dragons and their relatives are said to have scales reminiscent of metal...), but why monsters? Are they just more conductive? That bugs me.

If any monsters are going to take effective damage, it should be ones with abilities similar to classes that take effective damage (i.e gargoyles have the flying keywords, the centaur things get mounted keyword), and undead which should either be vulnerable to a subset of light magic (Maybe Warding? That stuff is kind of underwhelming) or fire magic (KILL IT WITH FIRE!).

This is going to be a long section to come to consensus on, I can tell. -_-'

[Xanmyral]

Random note, effective damage in 1.22 got nerfed to x2, interestingly enough.

@BMM: 'Cause reasons. Makes as much sense to me as light magic having effective magic for almost everything.

[Blade Master Model 42]

Random note, effective damage in 1.22 got need to x2, just noticed this.

EH.

Blow that, 3x is how it worked before, I see no reason to change it. Effective Weapons are meant to be deadly, not mildly more threatening than normal.

EDIT: The Judgement tree is clearly the cleansing light of heaven manifesting itself through the holy power of the monk class and its promotions! 

[Xanmyral]

Darnit, my bad phone post got quoted before I could fix it.

Edit: If you want a legitimate guess, probably has something to do with Greek Pantheism and the dismissal of titans.

[Blade Master Model 42]

Darnit, my bad phone post got quoted before I could fix it.

It's fine, I edit replied :3

EDIT: I figured it was more an indictment of organized religion's tendency to separate people based on arbitrary values and persecuting those groups that don't fall under their own heading. Though that may be me reading my own values and beliefs into it.

[Furtuka]

I hereby now submit of an interpretation of holy Arceus and it's ability to change its type of himself and his special move Judgement to be effective to anything provided you prepare ahead of time


/jk

[Xanmyral]

Another reason for the lightning versus monster may be the Norse Pantheism and the dismissal of giants and the various critters, bit the spell Titan's Thunder struck me as more Greek.

For the most part, it's magic so I don't normally look too much into it because I know I'll just get hand waving. Why I like Sci fi, you can at least get a semi reasonable answer or amusing technobable. You sometimes get really cool and consistent answers for magic though, like Elder Scrolls Mysticism (or was it alteration?).

Not to say you don't see Sci if with hand waving though, I've just personally not seen as many.

[Blade Master Model 42]

The thing about Sci-fi handwaving is you have to be a bit more consistent. And magic does get a lot of free passes when it shouldn't "Because It's Magic".

[SeriousConcentrate]

So... what exactly was wrong with the 'Nullify turns 3x to 2x, Wyvern Knight special turns 3x to 2x, when combined effective damage is 1x' deal? Is it just a case where GMs are worried they won't be able to kill players faster or something?

[Xanmyral]

Exactly. They have to be more consistent while magic is just shrugged at. It's like magicians. Everyone knows it's fake, but it's more entertaining to just go with it.

@SC: To be honest, the option presented by Haspen is actually the most forgiving, at least in my view. The skill would almost function the same as the regular one (although chances are the class specific ones would still be free) except for the Great Knight and the Wyvern line.

It's more a question of if you want to make all of them a third weaker against you, or if you want to remove most of them entirely but those few that are left still being deadly.

To put it in clearer terms, there are a few that would want Nullify. Those that are armored, those on horseback, and those that fly. If you look, there's no effectively for a class for horseback and armored. Just those tags. Wyvern and Pegasus have their own tags however, going under both their name and flying (and thunder).

So of all of these, only the great knight and the two flying trees having anything left.

[SeriousConcentrate]

I was just curious because we went from a simple idea that seemed to be liked to 'needs moar complication and bookkeeping' fairly quickly.

[Blade Master Model 42]

I seemed to be the only one who had any inclination toward the reduction to 2x rather than the elimination of an avenue of vulnerability once the discussion began, so that didn't help.

[Xanmyral]

Look at it this way: it's a toss up between a conditional or math.

@BMM: Well, what's your argument? I could go either way really, but I see the way I voted as more forgiving.